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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
801
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Posted - 2014.04.07 20:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dust 514 was announced as an innovative MMO FPS, set in the Eve universe of New Eden. We were to be able to spend our isk calling in support from above, fending off spaceships from orbit or wrecking the mercenary in our crosshairs. We were to be able to live in a rich MMO environment, selling our spoils of battle on a player run market, and we were to be able to meaningfully impact New Eden. But such isn't so.
Dust's iteration thus far has been that of a lobby shooter. We log in and engage in battle in one of four game modes. The game modes, though, are very similar to one another. Two of our game modes involve capturing a checkpoint or checkpoints of some sort, while the other two involve killing the other mercs, with varying degrees of off-map support. We don't have the richness of a capture-and-carry the flag. There's no "defend the president"-style protection map. There's no "lone wolves" setup. Dust really doesn't capture the spirit of what makes a fun and approachable lobby shooter: the ability to jump online and "go" without having the need to squad up, coordinate, check skill queues, etc. Lobby shooters are about turning the game on and entering a Big Team Battle. They're about playing a All-vs-All deathmatch. They're about slaying for the sake of your epeen.
Dust straddles. In essence, it straddles the line between both of these genres, existing neither as a full-blown, balls-to-the-wall MMO or the casual, unobtrusive jump-in-and-go first person shooter. Sure, it has elements of each. It has a skill system that exists to shape your character. It has an NPC market and a monetary system for you to kit out your merc. It has some makings of a traditional lobby shooter with the Ambush game mode (that is somehow spoiled with on-demand vehicles availability). It carries on this FPS idea through both of its "capture and defend this checkpoint" game modes. Dust's vision was to take the best from these genres and combine it into a killer game. It's not there yet. It straddles. CCP has made efforts to improve the game. And it's working, ever so slowly and surely, but there's still a tremendous amount more that could be done to improve its disposition.
Firstly, the power curve between a brand new merc and a veteran needs to be removed. Higher skill points should add diversity. Diversity in roles, suits, weapon choices, variants, customization, etc. Now, skills (and tier levels) solely serve to linearly increase someone's power. Since CCP is tight-lipped on its numbers, I can only speculate that this has to have a chilling effect on new players when a brand new merc gets mercilessly slaughtered by higher skilled, richer players upon leaving the Academy. Don't forget these same mercs had fun with Dust while in the Academy. There have been many, many new player experience-focused threads and testimonials to support this. Something's not wrong with the game fundamentally, at least with respect to fun factor. Higher skill levels should add diversity to a merc, not power. Dust's skill cap should be based on player skill, not high skill points.
Secondly, if you're going to do an MMO, then do an MMO. Let us feel like we're in a rich and vast universe. Now, it feels like we're confined to our quarters in one dark corner of the Universe. We can't move around or socialize or interact with other mercs--even mercs in our Corporation. We get salvage rewards for our battles yet we cannot sell them anywhere. We can run Faction Warfare for Loyalty Points, but our loyalty must be selfish. We must quell the entrepreneur inside, for we cannot benefit from selling factional goods to the public. Our rewards only benefit us individually, and this does not lend to a "multiplayer" feeling.
Thirdly, it should feel like our money means something. We need to feel like we are immortal mercenaries and shape the battlefield with our money. We need kill reports that show how much isk we destroyed. We need reports showing how much money we spent. The money should feel real. Payouts for winning and losing need to be readjusted. Payouts for a win should feel better than the "wash" feeling we currently have, win or lose. Vastly increase the cost on items we call in from battle. That orbital strike should COST something. That tank should COST as much as a tank should. Those installations that "magically" fall from the sky need to be called in and paid for by US. Maybe a tank has 2x the HP of an installation and 2x the firepower BUT at 2x the cost. The dream of Dust was to have the isk flow and use that isk against someone else. We have a little bit of it in our dropsuit and fitting costs, but the "idea of cost" needs to be dramatically expanded.
Lastly, Dust needs richer game modes. FW and PC can be the arenas where squad and team play shine. But give the solo queue mercs somewhere to play. That's the meat of what drives so many to an FPS: passive progression and approachable game modes. Lone wolves, Capture the Flag, Overlord, etc. are all just a few of the options available to expand Dust in the shooter arena. And please, give us PVE and Co-op PVE. We need more than watching our quarters to occupy our time. Carving out unique spaces where both the solo merc and the well-oiled squad shine would go SO far in expanding Dust's appeal beyond the hardcore.
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
802
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Posted - 2014.04.07 21:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cotsy8 wrote:1- yes NPE needs to be adjusted, the "curve" might not be the solution however. I think a matchmaking tier system is best, with an emphasis on the battle academy being longer, allowing for all weapons and classes to be open at std level and there should be a default on the current drop suit fittings to include all types of chars and weapons. Let new players mess around with the default blueprints and see what they like, how to play certain classes, and how to counter certain classes/AV. The idea is to open up the game early and close it off after the battle academy so players will be encouraged to play. The curve really must be adjusted, though. NPE suffers SO much by someone just having more SP. A new player can't possibly as deadly as a veteran player--who has had much more time to learn the maps, weapons, nooks, crannies, strategies, etc. The power curve is an essential part of an MMO, yes, but it doesn't really have a place in a FPS.
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
821
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 15:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sargon Akkadi wrote:This is the one piece that I disagree with from the original post as well. There should be a reward for spending points on a particular play style and specializing, as well as taking your medicine and upgrading core skills. That choice of how to progress is one of the draws of the game! Combined with map knowledge, team play, and all the rest it certainly is OP to train up skills. WIth matchmaking and longer academy that could get softened (although the first is a significantly hard problem). I think you misread what I mean when I say the power curve should be removed. I'm not advocating the removing of advancing your character or progression. There definitely should be both advancement and progression.
However, that can easily come about in the form of diversity in weapons and suit choices, roles on the battlefield, and through non-damage-increasing weapon variants. Talent and skill progression should definitely be present, albeit the skills should be bonuses like tanking increases and hacking, speed, etc. that we currently have. Don't forget, too, that fitting option free up better equipment (lower scan profile, etc.), but I'd eliminate adv and prototype weapon tiers that serve to just increase the power or damage curve such that it widens the gap between newbro and veteran. Advancement should be the availability of specialized suits and equipment. But as any fps designer will tell you, "a new player has to feel powerful right out of the gate." Currently, we have that new player feeling in the academy--where emphasis is placed on player skill--and that feeling radically shifts as soon as the newbros leave the Academy and are pitted against proto deathsquads.
I agree, too, that it is an issue with matchmaking, but the problem there is that WP/SP totals as a basis for matchmaking doesn't necessarily mean that gearing would be the same; a higher WP/SP vet isn't necessarily always going to run proto, and a lower skilled player may not always use low gear (due to the availability of AUR variants). Emphasis really needs to be placed on player skill, as in all games.
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
823
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 19:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sargon Akkadi wrote:Looks like I did misunderstand you. The main "removal of the power curve" you are advocating is related to the weapon tiers, right? Perhaps variants are unlocked at higher skill levels (maybe more granular than now), but there is not a purely better option than the base model (or at least in terms of damage). I think this is swell, and harkens back to the EVE concept of Tech II ships being about specialization.
Does this apply to other modules, equipment, vehicles or dropsuits? Or is tiered damage the main beef?
I agree about the difficulty in match making that you describe.
Most of the consensus about the Academy since inception is that it is way too short. I guess this is probably right on, but don't really know.
It's primarily tiered damage. I think the issue is that weapon tiers + fitting + tank goes SO much higher for better SP mercs that the imbalance between a well skilled vet and a newbro is too great. It's nearly impossible that a new merc fresh out of the Academy can kill a rich vet when taking into account the vet's game skills (tank, sharpshooter, reload time, speed, module bonuses, etc.) PLUS the innate weapon stats of a proto weapon. It makes the game's skill cap too much about what gear I have and too little about how skilled a fps player I am.
New mercs should feel as powerful, while the vet should have more options. Both could use a scrambler rifle, say. But the vet could use a scrambler rifle with a scope, or an assault SCR altogether. That at least creates options for the well-skilled while not flatly making a higher skilled player's baseline *that* much better, regardless of skill.
FPS games are very much games of skill--as in, "how good a shot am I?" They rarely are about "how much more gear/skills do I have than the other guy?" Think about it: a 25% increase to base armor/shield, 10% increase to plate/shield extender effectiveness, faster recharging shield modules, better armor repair, etc., create a cliff for a new player to overcome. You can just think that his shields are 25% LESS than they should be or that his plates provide -10% effectiveness. His shields recharge 10% SLOWER. Combine that with his weapon simply doesn't reach as far or have the damage POTENTIAL of the vet, and the gap is just too great.
Newbros love the game in the Academy. Why? Everyone is on a level playing field. We need to keep that level playing field for much longer, even extending it into the main game. Dust isn't like Eve in that we can just call in more reinforcements. We have 16 clones. Period. If the field is imbalanced due to gearing, then that's not really a situation that can easily be overcome and just leads to protostomping, which ultimately just causes those new mercs to hang up their boots forever.
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