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A year of work has gone to working on Dust 514 core mechanics

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Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2122	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:41:00 - [1] - Quote So, I just want to recap quickly, that CCP re-focused their work in the middle of 2013 to working on the games core mechanics. Now, about 9 months later, how much do you feel that the core mechanics (framerate, controls, hit detection, input lag) has improved since Uprising 1.0? I would say marginally, since: - Framerate is still low, especially in CQC. The least acceptable goal here is consistent 30 framerate, not 25, 30. - Input lag is HORRIBLE if you play in 720p. - Hit detection was fixed by adding the 'snare' effect, and not actually improving hit detection. - Mouse and keyboard controls are poorly implemented. Fix the round off errors already. These are my reflections regarding over one year of CCPs work to improve the core mechanics. Huge improvements in the areas above would not take one year to implement. If you have ONE good engineer. Alt#1 Scout gk.0 - ScR, CR, RR, PLC, SMG Alt#2 Madrugar - Ion Cannon Alt#3 Commando gk.0 - Shotgun, AR
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2761	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:48:00 - [2] - Quote Had very few problems with frame rate and input lag outside of PC, apart from very occasional lag spikes (not my connection because the whole squad gets them at the same time). Hit detection is still borked and the 'snare' effect and aim-assist mechanics are the worst implementation of a fix for it in any game ever. I would not say that the game has 'developed' as such in the last year. More like it's just wallowed in a maintenance loop for 11 months. With any luck that's just the stuff we've been seeing and in the background they've been doing the true development that will be shown at Fanfest and given to us immediately afterwards. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 1534	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:48:00 - [3] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Now, about 9 months later, how much do you feel that the core mechanics (framerate, controls, hit detection, input lag) has improved since Uprising 1.0? Some improvements have been made to Dust. I remember 1.0, and in comparison to 1.8, Dust just feels better. Having said that... the improvements made vs. time invested ratio is WAY the ** off. It feels like the changes that have been made should have been rolled out from 1.1 - 1.2; followed by 1.3 - 1.8 containing the missing dropsuits, more weapons, vehicles, cloaking, FW 2.0, PC 2.0, and maybe rudimentary PvE. Spectral Clone wrote:** Aim assist helping scrubs to become gods at the game Aim assist really isn't that great. I've play extensively with and without aim assist; it doesn't grant you magical aim-bot powers or make your weapon's round turn 90 degrees to headshot people around corners. What it does do; however, is help people whose gun game isn't to the levels of someone who plays FPS's several hours a day, multiple days per week. Which is good. We all can't be neckbearded, poop-socking no lives. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Roofer Madness Algintal Core Gallente Federation 938	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:50:00 - [4] - Quote 1.8 finally fixed the chat bubbles. So there's that. Now at least we can see who is on comms when we talk about how **** this game is.... lol I spent half my ISK on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The rest I wasted.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2126	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:52:00 - [5] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Had very few problems with frame rate and input lag outside of PC, apart from very occasional lag spikes (not my connection because the whole squad gets them at the same time). Hit detection is still borked and the 'snare' effect and aim-assist mechanics are the worst implementation of a fix for it in any game ever. I would not say that the game has 'developed' as such in the last year. More like it's just wallowed in a maintenance loop for 11 months. With any luck that's just the stuff we've been seeing and in the background they've been doing the true development that will be shown at Fanfest and given to us immediately afterwards. I agree with you, it doesnt make sense that any major work at all has been done in the 'current' Dust to improve the core mechanics. My hypothesis still stands, that it was too hard/impossible to improve the core mechanics in the Unreal Engine 3. And CCP had to switch. If we do not get a new engine or something of similar significance as a new engine at Fanfest 2014: I will ask myself what 120 CCP employees are actually doing in Shanghai? They cant all be drinking beer at work all day, can they.. can theeeey??? If so, I need to get a job at CCP. Because I love beer. Alt#1 Scout gk.0 - ScR, CR, RR, PLC, SMG Alt#2 Madrugar - Ion Cannon Alt#3 Commando gk.0 - Shotgun, AR
Killar-12 OLDSPICE. Top Men. 2550	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:23:00 - [6] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Django Quik wrote: Had very few problems with frame rate and input lag outside of PC, apart from very occasional lag spikes (not my connection because the whole squad gets them at the same time). Hit detection is still borked and the 'snare' effect and aim-assist mechanics are the worst implementation of a fix for it in any game ever. I would not say that the game has 'developed' as such in the last year. More like it's just wallowed in a maintenance loop for 11 months. With any luck that's just the stuff we've been seeing and in the background they've been doing the true development that will be shown at Fanfest and given to us immediately afterwards. I agree with you, it doesnt make sense that any major work at all has been done in the 'current' Dust to improve the core mechanics. My hypothesis still stands, that it was too hard/impossible to improve the core mechanics in the Unreal Engine 3. And CCP had to switch. If we do not get a new engine or something of similar significance as a new engine at Fanfest 2014: I will ask myself what 120 CCP employees are actually doing in Shanghai? They cant all be drinking beer at work all day, can they.. can theeeey??? If so, I need to get a job at CCP. Because I love beer. Of course they can don't you know the truth behind Free Beers? How to Leave PC
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1933	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:39:00 - [7] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: So, I just want to recap quickly, that CCP re-focused their work in the middle of 2013 to working on the games core mechanics. Now, about 9 months later, how much do you feel that the core mechanics (framerate, controls, hit detection, input lag) has improved since Uprising 1.0? I would say marginally, since: - Framerate is still low, especially in CQC. The least acceptable goal here is consistent 30 framerate, not 25, 30. - Input lag is HORRIBLE if you play in 720p. - Hit detection was fixed by adding the 'snare' effect, and not actually improving hit detection. - Mouse and keyboard controls are poorly implemented. Fix the round off errors already. These are my reflections regarding over one year of CCPs work to improve the core mechanics. Huge improvements in the areas above would not take one year to implement. If you have ONE good engineer. Agreed completely. I would add that the other 'fix' to core aiming mechanics & hit detection was bundled up in the Aim Assist, giving us hits that we know we didn't earn and most of us didn't want. Progress in core FPS mechanics over the past year? Virtually non-existent. Even then, when CCP talked about 'core mechanics' for DUST it always sounded like they were using the words in a way different than the rest of the industry and the DUST playerbase used them. I honestly believe that for a while Shanghai and maybe Reyk believed they didn't need core FPS mechanics that were up to par with the rest of the shooter industry, and could slide by on the New Eden connection. To be honest, i have no frakkin' idea what CCP believes now. I support SP rollover.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2423	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:39:00 - [8] - Quote Frame rate for me is PERFECT the only time I have had it drop is in PC and that's for a couple of seconds. I would suggest that you test connection quality at www.pingtest.net you need a B at least (unless you don't check package loss in which case C-)* I have played with a CRT (Yeah I know, always thought your health bar was just a single strip(I know it was in earlier builds)), 720p, 1080p and recieve little to no input lag. Once again my conncetion is flawless, with knly 10ms The snare effect was present before hit detection was fixed, fixing hit detection made it more noticable, however I agree I don't like it either. Mouse and Keyboard still need work, but I don't think they have actually done all that much to controls yet anyway. They have imrpoved the "core gameplay" by balancing and adding weapons and equipmemt, hotfixing weapon bugs etc. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2132	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:57:00 - [9] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Frame rate for me is PERFECT the only time I have had it drop is in PC and that's for a couple of seconds. I would suggest that you test connection quality at www.pingtest.net you need a B at least (unless you don't check package loss in which case C-)* 100 Mbit/s fiber into my building, I don-¦t have to test it. Also frame rate and ping are two different things. Monkey MAC wrote: I have played with a CRT (Yeah I know, always thought your health bar was just a single strip(I know it was in earlier builds)), 720p, 1080p and recieve little to no input lag. Once again my conncetion is flawless, with knly 10ms Input lag when switching weapons and throwing grenades is horrible for me, and many others. Great if its working out for you. P.S. Dust does not support 1080p resolution. Monkey MAC wrote: Mouse and Keyboard still need work, but I don't think they have actually done all that much to controls yet anyway. Exactly, nothing has been done about controls in general for over a year. We need progression here. Monkey MAC wrote: They have imrpoved the "core gameplay" by balancing and adding weapons and equipmemt, hotfixing weapon bugs etc. Core gameplay is not stats on equipment or fixing bugs. Alt#1 Scout gk.0 - ScR, CR, RR, PLC, SMG Alt#2 Madrugar - Ion Cannon Alt#3 Commando gk.0 - Shotgun, AR
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1933	Posted - 2014.04.07 14:08:00 - [10] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: The snare effect was present before hit detection was fixed, fixing hit detection made it more noticable, however I agree I don't like it either. Thank you! I've been wondering why the hell peeps were really just starting to complain about the snare effect now when it's been in place since back in beta - definitely agree it's the 'improved' hit detection/Aim Assist, which is allowing the snare to trigger far more often. I support SP rollover.

Asirius Medaius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1105	Posted - 2014.04.07 14:09:00 - [11] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Had very few problems with frame rate and input lag outside of PC, apart from very occasional lag spikes (not my connection because the whole squad gets them at the same time). Hit detection is still borked and the 'snare' effect and aim-assist mechanics are the worst implementation of a fix for it in any game ever. I would not say that the game has 'developed' as such in the last year. More like it's just wallowed in a maintenance loop for 11 months. With any luck that's just the stuff we've been seeing and in the background they've been doing the true development that will be shown at Fanfest and given to us immediately afterwards. Took all what I wanted to say right out of my mouth.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Dirt Nap Squad. 1457	Posted - 2014.04.07 14:16:00 - [12] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: So, I just want to recap quickly, that CCP re-focused their work in the middle of 2013 to working on the games core mechanics. Now, about 9 months later, how much do you feel that the core mechanics (framerate, controls, hit detection, input lag) has improved since Uprising 1.0? I would say marginally, since: - Framerate is still low, especially in CQC. The least acceptable goal here is consistent 30 framerate, not 25, 30. - Input lag is HORRIBLE if you play in 720p. - Hit detection was fixed by adding the 'snare' effect, and not actually improving hit detection. - Mouse and keyboard controls are poorly implemented. Fix the round off errors already. These are my reflections regarding over one year of CCPs work to improve the core mechanics. Huge improvements in the areas above would not take one year to implement. If you have ONE good engineer. so, in your typical d-bag post here you list all the things that irritate you specifically, rather than list what has happened over the last year? is there nobody around your house for you to qq to? eatsbabies cienfuegos steward of the renegade alliance.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2442	Posted - 2014.04.07 14:27:00 - [13] - Quote PS3 limitations... Sigh...
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 572	Posted - 2014.04.07 14:28:00 - [14] - Quote It's better, a lot better but that doesn't mean it's any good. Uprising 1.0 was almost literally unplayable (for some it actually was unplayable) but it has been steadily improving since. For a team the size of CCP Shanghai I would have expected more in a whole year, but the core shooter aspect does feel just about right. I think most of CCP's problems stem from their ideas being ahead of the technology that exists for them to work with. If Dust was on PC then it would be leagues ahead of what it is now, but it also wouldn't be very special. I really enjoy telling people that it's the first game ever to link two games across two platforms, except that I don't do that anymore because of how bad the game is right now.
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 782	Posted - 2014.04.07 14:33:00 - [15] - Quote To echo a lot of people above, it resembles more like a maintenance loop rather than active development, and I think a lot of effort was wasted trying to "balance" things, which were then swung back the other way, while at the same time tinkering with core mechanics, which threw the latter balancing effects out the window. I think they didn't have much luck, the EP left, and rightly so - it was launched prematurely, then the next victim of the core gameplay (CCP logicloop) also suffered the same fate - again, for the same reason I imagine. CCP flying scotsman and CCP mintchip also left or got the axe, so it seemed like quite a hectic year at CCP shanghai. I'm cautiously optimistic about the new EP, but I won't hold my breath - I sat through too many fanfests where they promised a lot, but delivered little. I think he's understood that so he'll probably only talk about content that is finished, rather than promise visions of grandeur down the line.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2763	Posted - 2014.04.07 16:19:00 - [16] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: CCP flying scotsman and CCP mintchip also left or got the axe Didn't realise those 2 were gone too!? Thought chippy had been quiet for a while. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y RISE of LEGION 64	Posted - 2014.04.07 16:24:00 - [17] - Quote Oh, they fix some things. Every update... It's how much crap they break in the process that's the problem Dx G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Gallente Heavy
Laiod Klan Providence Guard Templis CALSF 7	Posted - 2014.04.07 16:31:00 - [18] - Quote The frame rate is disgusting, it isn't constant at all. When I try and play with KB/M, it is alright, not too bad, but not good. As OP says, they are pretty poorly implemented. Hit detection for me I haven't noticed anything. I mean every few matches There ends up being this disgusting server lag that causes every shot to not count, and then it force quits me from the match. This gets EXTREMELY frustrating, especially when I am doing well in the match and have spent large sums of ISK on suits, and end up getting nothing. They should implement something like battlefield. If you are forced out of the match or have to leave early, you get a portion of the rewards, but I'm not sure how they could put this feature in since there is money involved, not just XP. I have been pretty annoyed at doing several matches, then being 'kicked' out of them. I say kicked because I don't know what it is called when you are forced out of the match from server lag. America is becoming a police state.
Yan Darn Science For Death 531	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:04:00 - [19] - Quote They are out of beta and releasing on time. 'CCP - we do what we must, because we can' References to other games! \o/ Seriously though, if it improves a bit more, I say they may as well go for full release sooner rather than later. They can add missing vehicles and weapons after release. I'm sure heavies can cope with just HMG and FG for a month or two - they should be thankful the game didn't release with just Amarr heavy - that would have been lol worthy. Lets just be thankful we have a variety of rifles now - could you imagine what it would have been like if we only had the once OP AR as the only real rifle? We'd have a ridiculous situation where people would invest SP because its the only rifle, then be annoyed as hell when two more OP rifles were released and the AR got Nerfed. It doesn't look like they'll get FW or PC sorted out in time, but at least they are not gamebreakingly bad. Lets just hope they reset everyones ISK or something, since people who played FarmVille would have enough ISK to upset game balance. I'm gonna guess the last things they add before DUST goes live will be an integrated EVE/Dust Market - say what you want about CCP, but I don't think they'd rely on the FPS gameplay to 'sell' the game - we all know the main draw of DUST is that promised link. I'm sure we've all imagined some crazy **** that could be done if the two universes were combined. It must be amazing what they have planned - it worries me we haven't heard yet. Might recommend it to my friends - just gotta let them know there might be a few kinks for CCP to iron out in the first few months. I'm sure we'll only get some lukewarm reviews at first, but there should be just amount of excitement from anyone tha knows anything about EVE. I'm excited at the moment, we've only just seen the beginning - give it a year or so and I'm sure we'll see some massive improvements and additions to the game that really set it apart. The Ghost of Bravo
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 395	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:25:00 - [20] - Quote core mechanics have gotten worse imo. they had gotten better now their crap again. frame rates awful, input lag for MD is like never before.. hard freezes and fatal errors at least once per 4 hour session. what i dont get is someone had to know about the fatal error bug because someone was there to code the window and message for it. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189

mollerz 3230	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:32:00 - [21] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: CCP flying scotsman and CCP mintchip also left or got the axe Didn't realise those 2 were gone too!? Thought chippy had been quiet for a while. flying scotsman was the lead game designer since like 2011. GG flying scotsman You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Skihids Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3250	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:34:00 - [22] - Quote Put your TV in "Game mode" if it has one. Most TVs process the picture to smooth it out and make it look better, but that introduces lag at your end as it takes time to do. Game mode eliminates that and just dumps the raw frame on your screen faster.
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 395	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:36:00 - [23] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Frame rate for me is PERFECT the only time I have had it drop is in PC and that's for a couple of seconds. I would suggest that you test connection quality at www.pingtest.net you need a B at least (unless you don't check package loss in which case C-)* . pretty cool link man.. i just tested mine it said "Line Quality B*" i didnt wanna install java tho to test packet loss i was expecting a lot worse rating for the problems i have with mass driver in CQC, it doesn't fire on time and sometimes it actually spools up and fires 2 shots in concession. i have a direct ethernet connection from my modem to my PS3 and do not use my laptop/download or upload during play. i also get very bad frame rate lag in my dropship on the same map every the one with the pedestrian walk way between A and C u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3405	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:38:00 - [24] - Quote Ironically, after all the talk of fixing the core mechanics of the game, all of the work CCP has done has been put into new content. Which is basically just old content with new numbers, or new maps with greater lag. The only two things I would even say they've done in the past year is add aim assist (which existed before) and slightly changed vehicle physics for LAV's, which are still ass by the way. That's all they've done after all the horn blowing about focusing on core mechanics.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2427	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:42:00 - [25] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Frame rate for me is PERFECT the only time I have had it drop is in PC and that's for a couple of seconds. I would suggest that you test connection quality at www.pingtest.net you need a B at least (unless you don't check package loss in which case C-)* 100 Mbit/s fiber into my building, I don-¦t have to test it. Also frame rate and ping are two different things. Monkey MAC wrote: I have played with a CRT (Yeah I know, always thought your health bar was just a single strip(I know it was in earlier builds)), 720p, 1080p and recieve little to no input lag. Once again my conncetion is flawless, with knly 10ms Input lag when switching weapons and throwing grenades is horrible for me, and many others. Great if its working out for you. P.S. Dust does not support 1080p resolution. Monkey MAC wrote: Mouse and Keyboard still need work, but I don't think they have actually done all that much to controls yet anyway. Exactly, nothing has been done about controls in general for over a year. We need progression here. Monkey MAC wrote: They have imrpoved the "core gameplay" by balancing and adding weapons and equipmemt, hotfixing weapon bugs etc. Core gameplay is not stats on equipment or fixing bugs. 100Mbits/s is Connection Speed NOT quality, you can have 5 billion TBits/s a second but if your quality is poor it won't mean squat. I play this game with 1.25 Mbits/s and have very very few problems. I am aware dust not DO 1080p but my screen upscales it. As said though I still recieve minimal problems and no input lag. Yeah we do and best of luck to you on that. It may not be 'Core' gameplay, but is what CCP said they would work on in the Near Future Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2427	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:48:00 - [26] - Quote Zirzo Valcyn wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Frame rate for me is PERFECT the only time I have had it drop is in PC and that's for a couple of seconds. I would suggest that you test connection quality at www.pingtest.net you need a B at least (unless you don't check package loss in which case C-)* . pretty cool link man.. i just tested mine it said "Line Quality B*" i didnt wanna install java tho to test packet loss i was expecting a lot worse rating for the problems i have with mass driver in CQC, it doesn't fire on time and sometimes it actually spools up and fires 2 shots in concession. i have a direct ethernet connection from my modem to my PS3 and do not use my laptop/download or upload during play. i also get very bad frame rate lag in my dropship on the same map every the one with the pedestrian walk way between A and C Unfortunately it won't solve all your problems and there could be many reasons besides. Everything from your modem being overloaded (not enough speed for everything at a time) To you not being high enough priority on your local switch box. You could prehaps try port forwarding that connection, or phone up your provider and ask to be given higher priority. Alternatively you could try streaming through a prox server. Although it could just be your location, here in Essex there is an internet blackspot just down the road from me, they have fibre optic cabling but still only achieve 1Mbit/s Its confusing. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
TrueXer0 DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:02:00 - [27] - Quote This post hits on the same subject mine did. It is sad that my post was locked well before the discussion was able to get any real traction. Read it if you like. It should have never been locked. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2020834#post2020834 How long will the community allow this type of behavior from the company we are so loyal to? The community deserves better. CCP deserves better then the mediocre performance of the developers involved in Dust 514. It will only stop if we demand it does. CPM0 need to be empowered by the players. Remember, without the community CCP only have a program on a server. It takes us the consumers to make it work. Supply and demand. Start demanding better product, finished product, tested product and you will see a change.
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 395	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:06:00 - [28] - Quote stuck in the terrain right now, as we speak u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
TrueXer0 DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:21:00 - [29] - Quote Dust 514 Devs want to keep their jobs. The problem with the way things are going is that the Devs are the ones causing the issues, and the people in charge allow the Devs to run around like gods in the game. Devs should be focused on game development not their Facebook and twitter accounts. Their jobs have become more of a social hangout then actually developing a AAA game. This is why we get cut rate product. Don't agree, just look at the laundry list of bugs and problems that came out on 1.8 release. Then look back to every update that has been pushed since the game release. The pattern is there and consistent. There are flaws in the game that have still not been address and when asked about Devs simple will not discuss them or they will deflect to something else. We as a community support these actions. It is fine if Devs want to be involved in the community, but if and when it effect game development then a line should be drawn. Tell me it hasn't and I believe you would be very wrong. People put their time and money into supporting this product. Lets focus on making it worth both those things CCP.
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 289	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:41:00 - [30] - Quote About a 5-10% improvement in the game overall maybe less. Only 10 more years to go and the game will be 100% better!!! Right guys!!?!? Guys?! Guys.....?



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