DUST Search - Wow they are still running around solo and dieing to scounts

Monkey MAC wrote:

Travis Stanush wrote:

I think it's the same argument as tanks here... I shouldn't have to field a scout to counter the scout.

Exactly just like you shouldn't have to field a heavy to counter a heavy

When it comes to cloaks, there are legitimate concerns being buried beneath mountains of QQ and poor sports man ship.
But let's get a few things sorted.

1) Cloaks ARE Hard to see.
It cannot be denied, cloaks were designed to be hard to see, that is why they are hardto see, if you BELIEVE that they are easy to see then congratulations you might have over sensitive eyes. A good percentage of the population can see more colour tones than the average, you are probably one of those people. there are many frame rate, lag, lightning, glitches, stupid falling red ash, and a few other technical issues which make cloaks hard to see. This is not the point. I think you missed the boat entirely. But ill address it in you other points ] ;)

2) Cloaking is not a Cructch
Its no more a crutch than dancing on hives, or uplinks on rooftops. Its Annoying, its frustrating, it's not as simple to counter as the person using it would have you believe.
But it's not a crutch what is a crutch. A crutch is when you provide a low risk, high reward, no drawback gun or equipment, which cloaks are. Yes cloaks are a crutch, they are a big ******* crutch which rewards poor play, lowers the risk poor play is punished, provides defensive and offensive advantages that are not deserved due to poor play.

3) Aim Assist DOES still work on cloaked entities.
I have tested, once you "lock on" to a target aim assist will assist in tracking them. You are now enlightened, use it to your advantage. agreed, it still works. But it's more difficult to see the idiots who are making mistakes. Lock on all you want, taking down a cloaks 750 eHP target is more difficult that you make it sound

4) Cloaks ARE NOT perfect
There is still somethings that need to be ironed out with cloaks to stop abuse. cloaks do not need adjustment, they need to be removed. The support poor gameplay. Good gameplay doesn't even require a cloak. Cloaks are not required, they are redundant to good gameplay and cover poor gameplay. A crutch.

5) Cloaks ARE NOT perfectly balanced.
I'm not saying they are HORRENDOUSLY OP, but do you really think NS and WTF would be spamming Caldari Scouts with quite as much regularity if they weren't so effective. cloaks are a crutch therefore they cannot be balanced. The title and the argument are two different things. Caldri scouts are balanced, minus cloaks. They have high rewards but also have high limitations due to their 2 low slots. They are a good tool, a useful and a strong teammate but in no way are the OP.

6) Firing before the Cloak decloaks is not an intended mechanic.
CCP orginally had a penalty for firing under the effects of a cloak, this would not have been removed if CCP intended to give the current function of quick-swap cloaking to scouts. firing when cloaked is a problem a serious one, but it's the least of the concerns. How about how players used the cloak to get right next to you? How about how they used it to cover their asses before they got close enough to shoot you in the first place? Firing while cloaked is not the problem, it's the advantages they give scouts before they've even fired a shot that is.

7) Giving an Opponent warning your about to 1-Shot Him is NOT a Crutch
If you don't at least give the enemy opportunity to swear vengeance on you first it creates the impression that there was nothing that could be done, so they believe it to be OP, however if the Opponent feels they were given fair warning they blame themselves for not being faster enough, the whole interaction requires just a marginal increase in skill for the Assailant, and would probably still give them same result of death 85% of the time.


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Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 241	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:45:00 - [1] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: It just amazes me how may people are running around like the solo hero dying to scouts. 1.8 get a squad and work as a team. Its just over board that amount of fail that is going on and I only here QQ about nerfs. I really hope CCP does not listen to this BS. I will repeat myself because I am so shocked by it. So many are still running around solo dying to scouts. Sometimes over and over in the same match. What are you thinking? Did you start a new thread about this after i ***** destroyed your last argument? You end your post what are you thinking, what the are you thinking making basically the same post again after i owned you?? You serious about this bulllshit or the invalid arguments you wrote in your last thread. Shall i tear this argument apart too, maybe that will only cause you to make a new thread. Or maybe you should just refer to other posts. You changed like two words and took out some ridiculous things but the post is still the same. So ill comment on the team work, yes team work is important (not essential) but that doesn't mean squads are. This in no way provides justification for cloaks or in no way means people can be objective or constructive with their views. Theres no way QQ should stop because they are not in squads, because individuals can be objective and these people can identify problems with the game. If you think the Proto stomping elite q-syncing pricks are the only ones who should be allowed to QQ, i think you should uninstall dust. Any objective or argument which can be supported by reason or facts should be taken into account. There are so so many great solo players who make very strong and valid arguments in forums about a wide range of topics. You say you're shocked by people no being in squads, I'm appalled you think other opinions or arguments don't matter. Go read your other ridiculous *** post, and stop posting the same *** dumb ** after your invalid arguments get destroyed.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 243	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:59:00 - [2] - Quote Many people make decent arguments about nerf'ing cloaks, other people make good arguments for getting rid if cloaks altogether. You know who can't come up with any justifications for cloaks, the people who support them. It's been what, around 10 days, since cloaks were released and all cloak supports can say are the same four irrelevant and invalid statements: 1. Get good. 2. Eyes are OP. 3. EVE has cloaks. 4. I need them to be great. I've spent way too much time tearing these idiots up. They always say, oh why should I listen to you, you don't use cloaks. Yes i do, i love cloaks for what they give me (a huge advantage) but that doesn't mean i can't be objective in my assessment of cloaks. They say, you weren't a scout before 1.8 it wasn't easy. Again, yes i was. And yes it wasn't easy but it shouldn't be easy mode now. I sometimes had bad games (i still have a few bad games now but its more rare) but having a high risk, high reward class means some games you are going to struggle. Games aren't going to be easy, most are a struggle where your mistakes cost you a clone. Games were a thin line of skill and strategy and sometimes you got lucky to win a gun battle, but if you gave me the option of an easy mode or a balanced gameplay, i choose balanced all the time. Supporters of the cloaks can't justify their new easy mode, they don't want their cloak to be nerf or removed because they don't want to go back to old times. I get it, you don't want to go from being a dominant force to a cog in the team. But success should be based on skill, skillful play, strategy because of the high risk, high reward nature of the suit. If you don't like high risk high reward, and perfer the cloak which has no risk, high reward, no drawbacks - i understand. I am just saying its not necessary and its dishonest of you not to be objective. Furthermore, its in the disinterest of the game for one class to be OP, so you're doing everyone a disservice by not acknowledging that cloaks are easy mode.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 245	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:18:00 - [3] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Travis Stanush wrote: I think it's the same argument as tanks here... I shouldn't have to field a scout to counter the scout. Exactly just like you shouldn't have to field a heavy to counter a heavy When it comes to cloaks, there are legitimate concerns being buried beneath mountains of QQ and poor sports man ship. But let's get a few things sorted. 1) Cloaks ARE Hard to see. It cannot be denied, cloaks were designed to be hard to see, that is why they are hardto see, if you BELIEVE that they are easy to see then congratulations you might have over sensitive eyes. A good percentage of the population can see more colour tones than the average, you are probably one of those people. there are many frame rate, lag, lightning, glitches, stupid falling red ash, and a few other technical issues which make cloaks hard to see. This is not the point. I think you missed the boat entirely. But ill address it in you other points ] ;) 2) Cloaking is not a Cructch Its no more a crutch than dancing on hives, or uplinks on rooftops. Its Annoying, its frustrating, it's not as simple to counter as the person using it would have you believe. But it's not a crutch what is a crutch. A crutch is when you provide a low risk, high reward, no drawback gun or equipment, which cloaks are. Yes cloaks are a crutch, they are a big ***** crutch which rewards poor play, lowers the risk poor play is punished, provides defensive and offensive advantages that are not deserved due to poor play. 3) Aim Assist DOES still work on cloaked entities. I have tested, once you "lock on" to a target aim assist will assist in tracking them. You are now enlightened, use it to your advantage. agreed, it still works. But it's more difficult to see the idiots who are making mistakes. Lock on all you want, taking down a cloaks 750 eHP target is more difficult that you make it sound 4) Cloaks ARE NOT perfect There is still somethings that need to be ironed out with cloaks to stop abuse. cloaks do not need adjustment, they need to be removed. The support poor gameplay. Good gameplay doesn't even require a cloak. Cloaks are not required, they are redundant to good gameplay and cover poor gameplay. A crutch. 5) Cloaks ARE NOT perfectly balanced. I'm not saying they are HORRENDOUSLY OP, but do you really think NS and WTF would be spamming Caldari Scouts with quite as much regularity if they weren't so effective. cloaks are a crutch therefore they cannot be balanced. The title and the argument are two different things. Caldri scouts are balanced, minus cloaks. They have high rewards but also have high limitations due to their 2 low slots. They are a good tool, a useful and a strong teammate but in no way are the OP. 6) Firing before the Cloak decloaks is not an intended mechanic. CCP orginally had a penalty for firing under the effects of a cloak, this would not have been removed if CCP intended to give the current function of quick-swap cloaking to scouts. firing when cloaked is a problem a serious one, but it's the least of the concerns. How about how players used the cloak to get right next to you? How about how they used it to cover their asses before they got close enough to shoot you in the first place? Firing while cloaked is not the problem, it's the advantages they give scouts before they've even fired a shot that is. 7) Giving an Opponent warning your about to 1-Shot Him is NOT a Crutch If you don't at least give the enemy opportunity to swear vengeance on you first it creates the impression that there was nothing that could be done, so they believe it to be OP, however if the Opponent feels they were given fair warning they blame themselves for not being faster enough, the whole interaction requires just a marginal increase in skill for the Assailant, and would probably still give them same result of death 85% of the time. Hun? Giving him a sound when you uncloak but are still right next to him? How will this be done, you give him a sound right as you blow his head off? Maybe have a delay, but then wtf you gonna do for 2 seconds, hope he doesn't shoot while you fumble to get your gun out?! Sounds/delays/stupid ideas, just remove them. Scouts will be fine without their crutches. Haha i can't believe you are saying that people who are using the crutch should blame the guy they are shooting for not being faster or maybe for not choosing a cloaked scout too. No, how about scouts are punished before they get close enough to try your silky little blame game. You're obviously are a moron and enjoy your crutch a little too much. You've been blinded by your selfishness to maintain the advantages cloaks have given you. I get it, you were a ** player before and now cloaks make you "good" and you dont want to go back. Get rid of cloaks, reward good gameplay, reward good decisions. Punish poor gameplay, poor decisions. Punish the idiots before they get on top of you to shoot.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:52:00 - [4] - Quote There has been no decent arguments to cloak.I Spend way to much time making QQers look stupid. 1.I cant see them(it's called cloak for a reason) - if you can see them, when what is the point of a cloak? Seems pretty easy, if everyone cloaked and everyone can see them, them what's the point? If you can see them, why does it matter. Oh that's right cause the rest can't see them. - Many encounter issues like frame rate, lag, lighting, blue Huey blocking, poor map lining, poor area lighting, stupid red dust, etc... I play on two top of the line 55 and 60 inch TV's and I can't pick up scouts easily. Most players can't either. 2.They killed with a shotgun in shotgun range(really) - SG are not the problem, they are a balanced weapon. It's how the player got to shotgun range is what matters. The fact he fired nearly two shots while cloaked isn't the issue. Is what short cuts, what advantages did the cloak undeservingly provide that player to get into SG range. There's no problems for un-cloaked scout to flank you, close the gap between him and his prey, then fire a SG into your back/side/head in SG range. The problem is the defensive, then offensive advantages the cloaks gave you before you did it. This shows cloaks reward things theat shouldn't be rewarded and is the first of many anti-cloak or nerf needed to cloaks statements you make lol 3.After they sneak up on me they should tell me that their there(really stealth) - same sort of thing, if the scout used good strategy, good gameplay, good decisions to sneak up on you then a cloak is not required. He can do this un-cloaked and its the skill. If he used easy mode cloak, then it's the item and not the skill. Frankly, most of the time it's the item and not the player's skill, which is the problem. Too many short cuts, too many terrible decisions, too many gameplay errors all resulting in rewarding the player with offensive advantages they do not deserve. Kill turns into multiple kills even when poor gameplay + cloaks is used! and it's used all the time for "success". This is a nerf cloak statement or an anti cloak stamens lol 4.I don't want to use a scanner I just want to pew pew. you don't want to use a scanner, Hun? You just want to be an easy mode Logi slayer 2.0? I dont understand this, the Cal scout provides the same type of bonus a scanner would. Are you saying you want all the rewards with none of the skill or drawbacks, it certainly sounds like it, this is anti-cloak statement too. 5.i don't want to look for a blue easy to spot shimmer. - again, Hun? 6.my kd was higher before cloak scouts. haha, you k/d was higher for two easy to explain reasons. 1- there wasn't a bunch of unskilled players running around on easy mode killing you, therefore lowering you k/d. 2- cloaks promote (and reward) poor gameplay, so either they are taking shortcuts or you are now taking shortcuts which is resulting in lower k/d. Who says a scout should have a good k/d anyways, they are objective based gameplay picking off outlier targets (selectively and with patience and good decisions). 7.why are scout not easy to kill anymore. - a few reasons, one they got new classes which added more options (Cal dominates eWAr so they see you coming). Scouts like Min and Gal got a boost to module slots (high and low slot), a stat reset means more people took their SP and focused it into a class allowing for more Proto suits. And also cloaks. No ** eh. Not only are you seeing high eHP scouts which are harder to kill, but even the "proper" scouts have gained as much as 175 eHP more due to their extra slots. You can't see the scout idiots who use to run into open spaces as well, you can't see the bozos climbing ladders, or hacking objective, and the guys who suck at flanking at gaining an advantage there as well. There are more reason but you have more questions. This is a anti-cloak statement lol 8.why do I need a team in a team type shooter. - you don't. Not sure what this is doing in here. But if you're arguing cloaks give u the advantage to solo vs multiple enemies at hat just re-i forces the cloak being OP and not required. Not sure what you meant here though. 9 .Im a assault I should beat everyone. haha, again this is pulled from your ass. The comment argument i think you might be trying to make is why should one class be best, it shouldn't. No single class counters another, no class should be OP, no class should dominate. This one, idk wtf u are trying to say but its wrong either way. 10.give my rail rifle time to shoot so we can 1v1. - again what the are you saying. You made 10 points, 4 of which support the removal of cloaks, 4 of which are insanely stupid and make no sense and two of them are in favor of nerf'ing cloaks. I'm not really sure you understand your position here, but it seems you are against cloaks. QQers of cloak are but hurt and think their justified., they don't want to learn to play because QQ is easier.Cloak does nothing but make you slightly invisible(should be full) no other advances,easy countered by using your eyes.If you are blind you have,scanners,team work,common snse(don't lonewolf).iI get it you don't want a tactical shooter just an mom cod.Pew pew pew , not fair I can't see him....nerf nerf - okay you made 10 invalid, frankly stupid points in favor of cloaks which on,y actually support the removal/nerf'ing of cloaks. You say because my cloak is so OP everyone is butt hurt because I am a ***** OP now with cloak. You're just a stupid human being who cannot make an argument and apparently are so terrible at dust i need this a crutch (a cloak) to even kill someone. You must be some 12 year old kid, because this wasn't even difficult to reverse your opinion, you made every point in the opposite view,of what you were arguing for. .[/quote]
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 246	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:04:00 - [5] - Quote @hound who write Cloak is going to get nerf that is a fact.The problem is cloaks a one trick pony with given counters and people QQ.how are you every going to get balance in a game were the majority of the community cries instead of adapting.Cloaks not damage,stat boost,or anything else.The only reason I defend it is because it's sad that the player base can't handle a half@&& cloak.How can you handle more complex tools if you can't even handle the simple ones.I can't tell you how many "plasma cannon crutch" mail I got.This is the community, everything's being balance around kd and pride.This is a sand box stop kicking the sand out. Cloaks are going to get nerf'd - maybe they should just be removed. Cloaks are a one trick pony - if you mean that your one trick is turning them in and going into easy mode, i completely agree. People QQ because the recognize a serious problem, which you've identified but cannot provide any justification for or suggestions to balance. Player base cannot handle the advantages provided by cloaks to players whose gameplay do not warrant such defensive and offensive rewards. Yup. Turn on easy modem people QQ so blame the QQ on the difference between a simple and complex tool, Hun?! A cloak is a simple tool (yes), which provides a wide range of very complex (if you say so) advantages.. Yup. If you want to be a loser and troll about under balanced weapons like flaylocks and plasma cannons being able to kill, but not being on the balanced level then you're just grasping for straws. Weapons can kill, but it doesn't mean they are balanced. Scouts can kill with cloaks but it doesn't mean they are balanced, for instance before 1.7 scouts can kill but they were slightly under balanced. So CCP gave scouts more classes, an additional equipment slots, additional modules (high/low) improvements which made the class balanced. Cloaks, they are not balanced, they are a crutch which rewards poor gameplay. They are low risk, high rewards, no drawbacks easy mode. Just like you said, they easy mode. Stop kicking the sand out, i suspect that means please don't get rid of my OP crutch which i need to kill people because before I got my crutch i was a ** scout and now i turn easy mode on and somehow thanks to CCP for providing me with free "skill". Tske a *** seat along with the idiot who started this thread. Your crutch is bullshit easy mode and you know it, everyone knows it. Youre just a selfish ***** kid who thinks he deserves it.