DUST Search - IMPORTANT message for CCP regarding the cloak.

zzZaXxx wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:

no mention of a delay after decloaking before being able to shoot?

If you're in range, and your enemy doesn't see you, 90% of the time, it's not because of the cloak.

Shotgunners get kills WITHOUT cloaking by exploiting the fact that the enemy is distracted or by attacking from behind. Scouts get kills with other weapons without cloaking by striking from unexpected positions or - as with Shotguns - attacking enemies who are distracted. Scouts who are cloaked primarily use THE EXACT SAME TACTICS and against competent players, any other approach WILL FAIL.

If you get a "free" kill while cloaked, you had a pretty good chance of getting the same free kill without being cloaked. The enemy screwed up or wasn't paying attention, and you punished them for their mistakes.

Your argument fails. First of all, the 25% reduction in profile helps them immensely by keeping them off passive scans. Secondly, that and the fact that they're very hard to see if you're not actively looking for the shimmer, means that they're much more likely to get into "unexpected positions" without getting noticed and shot at along the way. Yes, scouts could do that before. Now they can do it with no skill and much more effectively.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4953	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:40:00 - [1] - Quote As everyone knows, I'm a firm believer - as someone who DOESN'T use the cloak myself - that the cloak is already fairly well-balanced. I'm not sure how many have noticed, but IWS has posted in the CPM cloak discussion thread mentioning that CCP are considering a few elements to nerf. This thread is a call for CCP to not overdo it like they always do. They're considering several angles, and a couple of the changes they're considering are quite significant nerfs to the cloak. That said, looking at things, I've noticed one of CCP's proposals was to remove the dampening bonus. If they make NO other changes, it's possible that this might be reasonable. But I'm worried at the same time, because it's possible that it may still be too large a nerf. And there are people calling for more than this - asking for the dampening bonus to be a penalty instead. As such, I'd suggest that - for once - CCP should try UNDER-nerfing something in the first instance. NO changes to cloak EXCEPT to reduce the dampening bonus from 25% down to either 10 or 15%. It's small, but a small step then SEE WHAT HAPPENS is better than throwing the baby out with the bathwater like they have so many times before.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4954	Posted - 2014.04.06 09:56:00 - [2] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: no mention of shooting while cloaked ? and you think shooting while cloaked is balanced ?? hell no! shooting while cloaked is BROKEN. Shooting while cloaked is ONLY happening because of a glitch. Glitches are not relevant to BALANCE, they are relevant to BUG FIXES. And shooting while DECLOAKING is a perfectly reasonable result of the cloak's INTENDED mechanics, because for the most part, people aren't decloaking while in another player's line of sight anyway.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4958	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:23:00 - [3] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: no mention of a delay after decloaking before being able to shoot? If you're in range, and your enemy doesn't see you, 90% of the time, it's not because of the cloak. Shotgunners get kills WITHOUT cloaking by exploiting the fact that the enemy is distracted or by attacking from behind. Scouts get kills with other weapons without cloaking by striking from unexpected positions or - as with Shotguns - attacking enemies who are distracted. Scouts who are cloaked primarily use THE EXACT SAME TACTICS and against competent players, any other approach WILL FAIL. If you get a "free" kill while cloaked, you had a pretty good chance of getting the same free kill without being cloaked. The enemy screwed up or wasn't paying attention, and you punished them for their mistakes.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4958	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:36:00 - [4] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: no mention of a delay after decloaking before being able to shoot? If you're in range, and your enemy doesn't see you, 90% of the time, it's not because of the cloak. Shotgunners get kills WITHOUT cloaking by exploiting the fact that the enemy is distracted or by attacking from behind. Scouts get kills with other weapons without cloaking by striking from unexpected positions or - as with Shotguns - attacking enemies who are distracted. Scouts who are cloaked primarily use THE EXACT SAME TACTICS and against competent players, any other approach WILL FAIL. If you get a "free" kill while cloaked, you had a pretty good chance of getting the same free kill without being cloaked. The enemy screwed up or wasn't paying attention, and you punished them for their mistakes. Your argument fails. First of all, the 25% reduction in profile helps them immensely by keeping them off passive scans. Secondly, that and the fact that they're very hard to see if you're not actively looking for the shimmer, means that they're much more likely to get into "unexpected positions" without getting noticed and shot at along the way. Yes, scouts could do that before. Now they can do it with no skill and much more effectively. Your argument fails. First of all, reducing the profile bonus (as I'm suggesting) will reduce the viability of relying on it like many players already do. Secondly, THEY'RE ONLY HARD TO SEE WHEN YOU'RE NOT ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR THEM. That was my entire point in the first place. If you're not actively looking for cloakers, either you're doing it wrong, or you're busy fighting someone else. I regularly kill cloaked players OUTSIDE of the Academy using a Starter Fit on my tank pilot alt while running a Starter Fit with no relevant infantry skills and a Militia AR. It's not about "they're noobs". It's about "they take risks and a smart player punishes them for it". Cloakers get away with a lot because A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION. Bad players getting killed regularly by something doesn't make it OP. It makes them bad players.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4959	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:40:00 - [5] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 1. CCP has not considered anything to the cpm or public yet. 2. The thread is really a discussion thread none the less its to continue to talk; analyze, observe, and see where and what players are doing with the cloak. 3. Had CCP implemented the original cloak they wanted; nobody would be defending the cloak. Thank you for the info - OP has been updated.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4959	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:48:00 - [6] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: defense mode active bro the TAC AR does not need nerfing its just bad players dying to it and please ignore that every FOTM is running it repeat for core flaylock repeat for logistics LAV repeat for fused contact grenades "Bro" the Tac AR got horribly over-nerfed into the ground. "Bro" the Flaylock got horribly over-nerfed into the ground. etc. etc. etc. I'm not saying that CCP shouldn't change things. I'm saying they should START SMALL. Change something relatively minor in a relatively small way, and WAIT AND SEE HOW IT AFFECTS THE SITUATION.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4959	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:51:00 - [7] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Just.make it so scanning profile goes up while cloaked not down, and then add a sigificant, easy to hear buzz sound when any cloaker is around you(including your own/teammates so an enemy is sneakier if you're already hearing one). but the sound should not be direction based but rather just proximity based, direction based(hearing it in left or right speakers) would make killing cloaks way too easy. You know there's already a sound that plays when decloaking, right? You know that sound plays IMMEDIATELY when you switch from the cloak, right? You know that means that even with lag, you hear the sound before the cloaker can shoot and while they're only partially cloaked and more visible, right? I have previously said that sound needs to be given a higher priority because sometimes it gets covered by other sounds, and I've also mentioned my support for the volume of that sound to be increased. I'm still in favour of those changes, but I want to see CCP try UNDER-nerfing something in the first instance instead of over-nerfing so it becomes completely broken and useless.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4963	Posted - 2014.04.06 12:23:00 - [8] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 1. CCP has not considered anything to the cpm or public yet. 2. The thread is really a discussion thread none the less its to continue to talk; analyze, observe, and see where and what players are doing with the cloak. 3. Had CCP implemented the original cloak they wanted; nobody would be defending the cloak. Can you explain number three more in detail ??? There was a plan where activating the cloak would start the cloak timer, then, while cloaked, you could switch to a weapon and unload on enemies WITHOUT decloaking. Each shot would deplete the meter slightly, with more powerful weapons like Sniper Rifles and Shotguns decloaking you instantly, but with Assault Rifles and the like allowing a short burst of fire while remaining cloaked.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4971	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:07:00 - [9] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Garrett's proposal to remove damping It's not MY proposal though. I'm working from the proposal mentioned by IWS in the CPM cloak discussion thread. And I'm suggesting only a REDUCTION in dampening, not a removal, as less of a nerf than most offended people are crying for. There are people asking for a direct increase in profile instead of a decrease, and the CPM seem to think a flat removal of dampening is a good idea. I think a small nerf to the amount of dampening provided would be worth trying as a first step.