DUST Search - Stop lag switch & SSD advantage

Kristoff Atruin wrote:

Lag switches don't exist in Dust because the servers are hosted by CCP, not a player. Lag switching is when the person hosting the game interrupts the connection, so that he can play without lag and the other players do. If you don't control the server all you do is lag yourself and not anyone else.

The way Dust works is as a battle winds up it looks at where the players are all located and tries to pick a battle server in a location that is central to all of them. So if you're in Europe and your opponent is in Japan the system will, from the sound of it, attempt to place you on a server in North America. These battle servers are all over the world, and two people might have different quality connections to the server...which is not at all dependent on your ISP.

Networking lesson: The internet works like a big tree, where every leaf is a computer or server. When you send a packet out to the server, at every connection of twig / branch a server decides which way to send your packet. Every time this happens we call it a hop. Sometimes these servers don't behave well, or have connection problems of their own...which causes some of your packets to never arrive at their destination. Meanwhile other people in your game don't go through the same route as you and may not rely on that connection. The closer the faulty connection is to the server, the greater the chance that more people in the game will have problems.

So basically there isn't much CCP can do to prevent this since players in Dust aren't segregated based on geographic location. It isn't a lag switch, it's just plain old lag.

I agree though that SSD's provide an unfair advantage in PC / FW. They don't really provide much of an advantage in the middle of a match, but they do let people load into the match and start running toward the objectives up to 12 seconds sooner than anyone with a stock PS3. We actually measured this once when PC was first out. We fought many teams where they had a scout with uplinks and an SSD. He would spawn in and run to the city, and then while we were just barely hitting the ground underneath the MCC they would be spawning in the center and hacking objectives. That's a pretty significant advantage, to be in control of objectives and dug in before the other team arrives at the fight. The solution here is to approach it like other shooters and make players wait for 10 seconds before they can pick their first spawn location.

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WARRIOR GAC Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 80	Posted - 2014.04.04 21:34:00 - [1] - Quote These problems are greater in BC, the BIG advantage you might have some with these 2 tools, the lag switch and SSD. Is there any idea how deterner this? The idea is something that I have "basic" Lag switch, eject any player battle that his connection is not stable. SSD, take a time of 20 or 30 sec load for everyone in general. PS: The translation is terrible, but something will understand Grupo de Asalto Chacal Estamos reclutando !
King0fHearts D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 14	Posted - 2014.04.04 22:36:00 - [2] - Quote Sorry what are you asking?
WARRIOR GAC Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 81	Posted - 2014.04.04 23:11:00 - [3] - Quote King0fHearts wrote: Sorry what are you asking? It is not a question, it's a suggestion. Grupo de Asalto Chacal Estamos reclutando !
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 611	Posted - 2014.04.04 23:21:00 - [4] - Quote ssd only gives boost at beginning of match which is a big advantage so just add a 45 second delay after first person spawns in before people can move lag swithc does nothing It'll help define roles, i promise:)
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2673	Posted - 2014.04.04 23:30:00 - [5] - Quote Dont blame the people using SSD's because they want that their game to run smooth. And what you discribed was not lagswitching its DOS/DDOS. Im not telling you what the difference is so i just put it this way: -you are from GAC -thus you are spanish -that means you have a horrible connection like dialup If you disconnect from the game its YOUR fault and nobody elses. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
WARRIOR GAC Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 81	Posted - 2014.04.04 23:59:00 - [6] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Dont blame the people using SSD's because they want that their game to run smooth. And what you discribed was not lagswitching its DOS/DDOS. Im not telling you what the difference is so i just put it this way: -you are from GAC -thus you are spanish -that means you have a horrible connection like dialup If you disconnect from the game its YOUR fault and nobody elses. The problem is not the connection, I'll just say that Lag switch only happens to me when I face one of those corporations "known for bringing lag", you shoot one another, and again. and you do not do the least damage. SSD is a legal tool and accept it as such, but can not give benefits in deployment for improving a PS3. Grupo de Asalto Chacal Estamos reclutando !
Odigos Ellinas Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2014.04.05 00:10:00 - [7] - Quote WARRIOR GAC wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Dont blame the people using SSD's because they want that their game to run smooth. And what you discribed was not lagswitching its DOS/DDOS. Im not telling you what the difference is so i just put it this way: -you are from GAC -thus you are spanish -that means you have a horrible connection like dialup If you disconnect from the game its YOUR fault and nobody elses. The problem is not the connection, I'll just say that Lag switch only happens to me when I face one of those corporations "known for bringing lag", you shoot one another, and again. and you do not do the least damage. SSD is a legal tool and accept it as such, but can not give benefits in deployment for improving a PS3. This corporations are using fast strafing fittings and methods that make your aim assist work against you. Turn off the aim assist and you will see a great result in this cases. As for the lag in dust it loos ugly but still better results then other FPS (bf4,CoD,ps2). In other games you the game is smooth (you don't notice the lag but its there) and a guy who is in front of you kills you from your left side etc.
Odigos Ellinas Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2014.04.05 00:11:00 - [8] - Quote And really who is so sick to use a lag switch ??? how dose it work do you need a fried who turns it on when you are under fire???
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 79	Posted - 2014.04.05 01:20:00 - [9] - Quote WARRIOR GAC wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Dont blame the people using SSD's because they want that their game to run smooth. And what you discribed was not lagswitching its DOS/DDOS. Im not telling you what the difference is so i just put it this way: -you are from GAC -thus you are spanish -that means you have a horrible connection like dialup If you disconnect from the game its YOUR fault and nobody elses. The problem is not the connection, I'll just say that Lag switch only happens to me when I face one of those corporations "known for bringing lag", you shoot one another, and again. and you do not do the least damage. SSD is a legal tool and accept it as such, but can not give benefits in deployment for improving a PS3. Its the game mechanics. As long as games use vRAM SSD will have an advantage over the regular hard drive. Plus they are not that expensive. Killboxes are stupid, this is war and the soon you can spawn the better off you are. As far a 'lag switching' the true culprits are those that change their region so that the hit detection favors them. There is no dynamic hit detection and I suspect there wont be until the PS4 version is released. The moment your reticule turns red and you fire your shot is run through an algorithm based off of the accuracy rating. Then it is up to your odds to determine if you get a hit or not. Something about the latency of long distance players + DS3 bendy bullets causes them to get more shots on you. The easiest way to describe it is that you 'lock on' when your reticule turns red Favoring High Latency Is Sh*t
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1143	Posted - 2014.04.05 01:39:00 - [10] - Quote Lag switches are a way of life in multiplayer games. So are bad connections, rotten ISPs (in the USA they are the national standard!) and wildly varying response times. Thus far there are no solutions that have been successful or published at least. If you drop a player with 'unstable' connection then most matches will drop 1/3 of the players even if none have lag switches. The difference between a lag switch (properly used) and a dropped packet or two (very common) is minimal. Add the fact that CCP network architecture is designed to support EVE Online and uses a 200ms ping time regardless of your own ping time I see little hope of a fix. In particular for Dust where even basic mechanics are broken for months on end. SSDs only effective the beginning of the match. And a good server connection can negate that advantage. We asked to move some of the wait in quarters time before a battle to the warbarge. That has been ignored. Many dislike the current delay but might be open to adding a spawn delay for the match to begin. However, on thinking of the technical issues that might not help at all. Dust does not load textures in unless they are needed. Depending on how Unreal Engine and CCP/Shanghai store and retrieve textures the paused start might only delay the advantage of the (my) SSD drives, not eliminate it. Recall that everything on the PS3 storage is encrypted. Loading requires a decrypt step, always. This might be at least part of the problem. Good Luck. And so it goes.

WARRIOR GAC Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 81	Posted - 2014.04.05 01:55:00 - [11] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: First, thank you to have answered, it was not with intent to conflict, only these two tools known game. Hopefully there will be a solution to these problems, and as KalOfTheRathi says, will be a matter of "luck". Grupo de Asalto Chacal Estamos reclutando !
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 433	Posted - 2014.04.05 03:45:00 - [12] - Quote nyah nyah nyah!! troll Me IRL :)
MORTADEL0 Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 224	Posted - 2014.04.09 01:38:00 - [13] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Dont blame the people using SSD's because they want that their game to run smooth. And what you discribed was not lagswitching its DOS/DDOS. Im not telling you what the difference is so i just put it this way: -you are from GAC -thus you are spanish -that means you have a horrible connection like dialup If you disconnect from the game its YOUR fault and nobody elses. -you are from TRE -thus you are english -that means you likes fish and chips, but not sausage If you have lag is for fish, but chips are not guilty. Únete a la leyenda. GAC CHACALES
MORTADEL0 Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 224	Posted - 2014.04.09 01:46:00 - [14] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Dont blame the people using SSD's because they want that their game to run smooth. And what you discribed was not lagswitching its DOS/DDOS. Im not telling you what the difference is so i just put it this way: -you are from GAC -thus you are spanish -that means you have a horrible connection like dialup If you disconnect from the game its YOUR fault and nobody elses. -you are from TRE -thus you are english -that means you likes fish and chips, but not sausage If you have lag is for fish, but chips are not guilty. Note: Racism Dark? All spanish have bad connections? monitors if you grow a little mustache Únete a la leyenda. GAC CHACALES
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2026	Posted - 2014.04.09 04:58:00 - [15] - Quote Lag switches don't exist in Dust because the servers are hosted by CCP, not a player. Lag switching is when the person hosting the game interrupts the connection, so that he can play without lag and the other players do. If you don't control the server all you do is lag yourself and not anyone else. The way Dust works is as a battle winds up it looks at where the players are all located and tries to pick a battle server in a location that is central to all of them. So if you're in Europe and your opponent is in Japan the system will, from the sound of it, attempt to place you on a server in North America. These battle servers are all over the world, and two people might have different quality connections to the server...which is not at all dependent on your ISP. Networking lesson: The internet works like a big tree, where every leaf is a computer or server. When you send a packet out to the server, at every connection of twig / branch a server decides which way to send your packet. Every time this happens we call it a hop. Sometimes these servers don't behave well, or have connection problems of their own...which causes some of your packets to never arrive at their destination. Meanwhile other people in your game don't go through the same route as you and may not rely on that connection. The closer the faulty connection is to the server, the greater the chance that more people in the game will have problems. So basically there isn't much CCP can do to prevent this since players in Dust aren't segregated based on geographic location. It isn't a lag switch, it's just plain old lag. I agree though that SSD's provide an unfair advantage in PC / FW. They don't really provide much of an advantage in the middle of a match, but they do let people load into the match and start running toward the objectives up to 12 seconds sooner than anyone with a stock PS3. We actually measured this once when PC was first out. We fought many teams where they had a scout with uplinks and an SSD. He would spawn in and run to the city, and then while we were just barely hitting the ground underneath the MCC they would be spawning in the center and hacking objectives. That's a pretty significant advantage, to be in control of objectives and dug in before the other team arrives at the fight. The solution here is to approach it like other shooters and make players wait for 10 seconds before they can pick their first spawn location.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12162	Posted - 2014.04.09 07:06:00 - [16] - Quote MORTADEL0 wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Dont blame the people using SSD's because they want that their game to run smooth. And what you discribed was not lagswitching its DOS/DDOS. Im not telling you what the difference is so i just put it this way: -you are from GAC -thus you are spanish -that means you have a horrible connection like dialup If you disconnect from the game its YOUR fault and nobody elses. -you are from TRE -thus you are english -that means you likes fish and chips, but not sausage If you have lag is for fish, but chips are not guilty. Note: Racism Dark? All spanish have bad connections? monitors if you grow a little mustache I'm fairly certain TRE aren't just British (though I imagine they have a fair few fellow Brits). I lol'd, though. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1886	Posted - 2014.04.09 14:01:00 - [17] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Lag switches don't exist in Dust because the servers are hosted by CCP, not a player. Lag switching is when the person hosting the game interrupts the connection, so that he can play without lag and the other players do. If you don't control the server all you do is lag yourself and not anyone else. The way Dust works is as a battle winds up it looks at where the players are all located and tries to pick a battle server in a location that is central to all of them. So if you're in Europe and your opponent is in Japan the system will, from the sound of it, attempt to place you on a server in North America. These battle servers are all over the world, and two people might have different quality connections to the server...which is not at all dependent on your ISP. Networking lesson: The internet works like a big tree, where every leaf is a computer or server. When you send a packet out to the server, at every connection of twig / branch a server decides which way to send your packet. Every time this happens we call it a hop. Sometimes these servers don't behave well, or have connection problems of their own...which causes some of your packets to never arrive at their destination. Meanwhile other people in your game don't go through the same route as you and may not rely on that connection. The closer the faulty connection is to the server, the greater the chance that more people in the game will have problems. So basically there isn't much CCP can do to prevent this since players in Dust aren't segregated based on geographic location. It isn't a lag switch, it's just plain old lag. I agree though that SSD's provide an unfair advantage in PC / FW. They don't really provide much of an advantage in the middle of a match, but they do let people load into the match and start running toward the objectives up to 12 seconds sooner than anyone with a stock PS3. We actually measured this once when PC was first out. We fought many teams where they had a scout with uplinks and an SSD. He would spawn in and run to the city, and then while we were just barely hitting the ground underneath the MCC they would be spawning in the center and hacking objectives. That's a pretty significant advantage, to be in control of objectives and dug in before the other team arrives at the fight. The solution here is to approach it like other shooters and make players wait for 10 seconds before they can pick their first spawn location. Thanks Kristoff for getting facts in the thread. You cannot lagswitch DUST, folks. The SSD makes a big difference in load time, and also seems to prevent a lot of problems others have with DUST. I bought an SSD more for the latter than the former. The solution to the SSD problem is that nobody should be able to move and the game should not begin until all members of both teams have spawned into the game. Everyone should spawn on the map, and then a countdown to match start should begin. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate


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