DUST Search - Part 4: Vehicles

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:

I don't know if drone's for vehicle's would be a hard fit .

I look at the LLAV's when I think of that and the distance it took to spider and that could be the same for the drone , with their A.I. like stationary turrets where if you shoot at them they will shoot back but they really don't go out of their way to kill you unless your just that close .

Activated from the mod wheel , you can increase the power of the vehicle's , like a capacitor where it boost's shield's , repair's them faster , draws from your shield's and armor repair's a team mate's vehicle .

There are so many way's to incorporate vehicle enhancing drones .

Apologize for going off track .

Like the post though , nice ideal's and dialogue .

The drone could be iffy

Will it move or be stationary?

How is it deployed?

Frankly in DUST it maybe a turret that it fires out of the tank and will have x amount of shield and armor and will either be a blaster/missile or rail and will shoot at anything that generally moves until its dead or the drone is destroyed

If it moved then it could be a problem because drones move fast so if it zips about the place and is a ***** to kill then OP towards infantry because no way to slow it down since no ewar

Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .

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Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3246	Posted - 2014.04.04 18:11:00 - [1] - Quote Part 1: Engineering & Capacitors Part 2: Armor & Shield Part 3: Modules & Skills Lore wise this is what the 4 races are described as according to CCP from the ISIS database. Amarr - Excel at engagements using Energy Turrets, backed up by Drones. Prioritize Armor over Speed. Caldari - Favor Missiles and Hybrid Turrets. Prioritize Shield over Speed. Gallente - Rely on Hybrid Turrets, backed up by Drones. Balance Armor with Speed Minmatar - Prefer Projectile Turrets. Balance Shield and Armor with Speed Problem is we dont have the Amarr and Minmatar vehicles or turrets or even Drones which would be hard to include for vehicles. But looking at the vehicles we do have, Caldari i would say should be slower but have more shields and Gallente should be faster but have less armor and a bit more shield. It would mean then the Amarr would have more Armor than Gallente but be slower and Minmatar would have nearly equal amounts of Shield and Armor but be faster than Gallente. Also it would mean lore wise Armor repairers would be active and Shields would also regen all the time and the passive Shield regen could also be improved through modules. The vehicles we do have in DUST are simply put: LAV - Fast transport DS - Flying transport ADS - Flying transport with teeth HAV - A tank We used to have Scout/Logi LAV/Logi DS/Mauraders/Enforcers and Black Ops HAVs which have been taken away to be tinkered with but to never be seen again. In EVE terms i suppose the LAV is the Frigate and the HAV is a Battlecruiser maybe, the DS doesnt seem to fit the Cruiser role and we dont have a MAV which would be between the LAV and HAV. The problem is the LAV is kinda useless, no one really uses it offensively and the HAV can crush it without trying, while the ADS is now alot more useful and can be a pain in the ass while the DS is a flying brick. In EVE the Battlecruiser doesnt really have the ability to kill Frigates due to the Signature Radius of the Frigate which basically means its takes longer for the Battlecruiser to target and lock on to the Frigate and also its harder for the turrets to keep track of the Frigate unless you fit your ship out for specifically killing Frigates and other ships with a small signature radius. Missiles are exempt and will always hit providing it doesnt run out of fuel but not always at full damage due to the explosion radius. But in DUST we dont lock on or target, we point and shoot (SL is the exception). One way to make LAVs more resistant and useful was to give it resistances so it could take punishment and survive a bit longer when HAVs were on the field, this ended up as the Logi LAV which then became the murder taxi and ended up in being removed because it killed infantry really well and could survive a hell of a lot, for those that used it for Logi purposes it did work quite well but that number was extremely small. Another way is to make the turrets fire slower, so a small turret would be faster firing while large turrets would be slower and medium is smack in the middle. It would mean that TTK between vehicles would be longer but also against small targets they would also be longer and possibly harder to hit aswell since large turrets do rotate slower or at least they do in EVE so smaller targets can evade quite easily. A possible third way is kinda linked to signature radius but it has to do with the radar whenever that is working in 2019 i guess, basically the smaller the vehicle the less likely of it showing up so a LAV to a HAV would be basically invisible where as a DS would be picked up easier. Shield extenders and active AB/Nitro would increase your signature radius so you would get picked up quicker and from further away and it can also work for infantry too. But we have infantry to deal with, smaller than a LAV and sometimes are a threat to our vehicles so if turrets were changed it means that gunners would need to be used since small turrets track better but would also need a zoom function and a possible range increase. Main problem from this is that if it becomes 3 to use a vehicle to protect it like a HAV for example would it take 3 to kill it?. Or would we make vehicles only go after each other and maybe make another vehicle class to purposely harass infantry so it gives pilots another reason to bring out a DS/HAV but the bottom line is that vehicles need a reason to be on the field whether it is harassing and killing infantry or being used to counteract the enemy vehicles or maybe even possibly in the future 2023 we are used to actually shoot through a wall and breach a compound.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3246	Posted - 2014.04.04 18:11:00 - [2] - Quote We also need skills for our vehicles, even in EVE the noob ship you start out in actually has bonuses attached to it, the only vehicle in DUST that has a skill bonus is the ADS even though it is attached to the skill book it still affects the vehicle. Basic vehicles have no bonus, it is the same as the basic dropsuits so once you decide to go logi dropsuit that advanced basic dropsuit you unlocked to get access to the logi dropsuit is now useless, why would you use it? Even a simple bonus would suffice so for example Caldari HAV gets a 5% bonus to Shield capacity per level where as the LAV could get a 5% bonus to Shield recharge rate per level then if and when more vehicles are added then they could have a secondary skill related to the function of that vehicle like 5% to Missile damage per level. It makes all vehicles useful and its needed for new pilots because it makes there 1st vehicle useful and a little bit more powerful. Now whether or not vehicles would be tiercided im not sure on, i would personally like to see advanced and prototype vehicle hulls to go with our adv/proto turrets and modules and then be able to pitch them against adv/proto AV weapons/dropsuits and modules. If they did become tiercided then obviously i would expect then to be something like the old vehicles we had where a HAV had 3H/5M/2L for example but with enough PG/CPU to be able to put on most proto modules like i can do on my proto Amarr logi suit. Another thing which happens to be missing is Rigs, now Rigs offer a bonus like 10% to Shield capacity but also has a drawback that it would increase the Signature radius by 10% but also they are a one time use only, once it is fitted it cannot be taken off unless you choose to destroy it or the vehicles is destroyed which means you lose everything. The rigs in DUST would have to be changed, so with Missiles the drawback could be like 5% higher PG costs or 5% to railgun heat build up while the T2 versions would have bigger advantages but also bigger disadvantages. So with these changes any vehicle would have a bonus, lore wise it would be generally correct i hope, shield would act like it does in EVE along with armor, more modules and variety would be added with the better vehicle hulls and rig slots and everyone gets a useful vehicle with more choice.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 334	Posted - 2014.04.04 18:44:00 - [3] - Quote Well, this is offtopic, but Taka, I'm gonna message you something semi important via PSN, please read it as soon as I get it done. :P R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3248	Posted - 2014.04.05 12:06:00 - [4] - Quote Bump
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2600	Posted - 2014.04.05 12:10:00 - [5] - Quote I'm not really certain what your point is, Taka. ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien
Akdhar Saif Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 405	Posted - 2014.04.05 12:15:00 - [6] - Quote Although I can't talk about most of what you've posted I will say; The blaster turret needs to be split into an AV version and an Anti-Infantry version. Having one turret that is effective against infantry and vehicles seem a little OP. It should be like guns. The Breach version will be better at AV and weaker against infantry and the Assault version will be the other way around.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3249	Posted - 2014.04.05 12:28:00 - [7] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: I'm not really certain what your point is, Taka. How?
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 670	Posted - 2014.04.05 12:40:00 - [8] - Quote I agree with your break down of vehicles because it means gallente are getting their rails back so now cal and gal can share them. Disagree with some of the other stuff. light suits are frigates. cruisers are medium suits and heavies are battleships. I see a tank as more like a dreadnought/Titan. biggest of the big. Dropships are carriers obviously. Not sure what a lav is. Turrets on them are underpowered since theres no protection for the gunner and they're pretty weak against all suits. it'd be cool to have a lav with a controllable turret for the driver lol. I'd use that. and we need a medium vehicle. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3249	Posted - 2014.04.05 14:36:00 - [9] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: I agree with your break down of vehicles because it means gallente are getting their rails back so now cal and gal can share them. Disagree with some of the other stuff. light suits are frigates. cruisers are medium suits and heavies are battleships. I see a tank as more like a dreadnought/Titan. biggest of the big. Dropships are carriers obviously. Not sure what a lav is. Turrets on them are underpowered since theres no protection for the gunner and they're pretty weak against all suits. it'd be cool to have a lav with a controllable turret for the driver lol. I'd use that. and we need a medium vehicle. I just used the comparision of EVE ships to vehicles since they are vehicles
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1507	Posted - 2014.04.05 14:38:00 - [10] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: I agree with your break down of vehicles because it means gallente are getting their rails back so now cal and gal can share them. Disagree with some of the other stuff. light suits are frigates. cruisers are medium suits and heavies are battleships. I see a tank as more like a dreadnought/Titan. biggest of the big. Dropships are carriers obviously. Not sure what a lav is. Turrets on them are underpowered since theres no protection for the gunner and they're pretty weak against all suits. it'd be cool to have a lav with a controllable turret for the driver lol. I'd use that. and we need a medium vehicle. I don't think you can even compare Dust vehicles/infantry to EVE ships. In Dust you aim your weapon, while in EVE a computer aims your weapons. In Dust, there's player skill that's a factor, while in EVE there is no player skill when it comes to aiming and hitting your target. Thus in EVE you have all of those characteristics to simulate hit-or-miss. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 672	Posted - 2014.04.05 15:01:00 - [11] - Quote Fair enough to taka Harpyja wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: I agree with your break down of vehicles because it means gallente are getting their rails back so now cal and gal can share them. Disagree with some of the other stuff. light suits are frigates. cruisers are medium suits and heavies are battleships. I see a tank as more like a dreadnought/Titan. biggest of the big. Dropships are carriers obviously. Not sure what a lav is. Turrets on them are underpowered since theres no protection for the gunner and they're pretty weak against all suits. it'd be cool to have a lav with a controllable turret for the driver lol. I'd use that. and we need a medium vehicle. I don't think you can even compare Dust vehicles/infantry to EVE ships. In Dust you aim your weapon, while in EVE a computer aims your weapons. In Dust, there's player skill that's a factor, while in EVE there is no player skill when it comes to aiming and hitting your target. Thus in EVE you have all of those characteristics to simulate hit-or-miss. I disagree. This is new Eden and we have tiered suits just like eve has tiered ships. that's the mmo bit, depth and variety, managing systems. The fps aspect merely changes how we go about combat and dictates everyone should be able to solo everyone else instead of eves system with certain ships literally being invulnerable to certain setups. So we're in mini ships, with modules and stats playing an fps. You can't not compare them. Were just missing most of our ships. One day well have 4-5 standard medium suits with a tech 2 variant just like eve does. We have the logistics and heavy assault cruisers right now except the assault suit bonuses are all wrong and assaults are vastly inferior to most other suits in the game. But that aside a sentinel is clearly imitating a Marauder without a bastion mode. And light suits are fast little frigates. Only problem is each tier should have they're own weapons. Now we need the intermediate tiers for a destroyer like light hunting suit and a battlecruiser type suit which I feel the commando should be remodeled for. It's already using cruiser style weapons on a bigger frame. Ccp should be aiming for something like eve parity. Of course accounting for the difference in combat and adding more fps flair to bonuses and playstyles. But we're still in beta and ccps trying to slap the game together to get it "finished" because they're so far behind schedule. Everything in uprising should have been available day one. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3271	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:24:00 - [12] - Quote Bump
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1812	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:43:00 - [13] - Quote Speed is good on tanks. Cal are naturally faster due to shield over armor. Gal use armor (plates) but, like their ships popping the microwarp to get in close, you pop the overdrive to get up close with the blasters. I.e. Momentary speed. Therefore, Minny can be naturally the fastest tank with emphasis on shields, Ammar slowest and best armored. I'd also like to see Cal go back to passive shields so Min can be active shields. Tanks lost so much variety and skill in fitting. Now it is just basic roll around and blindside with a rail. Cheap and boring. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6460	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:58:00 - [14] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Speed is good on tanks. Cal are naturally faster due to shield over armor. Gal use armor (plates) but, like their ships popping the microwarp to get in close, you pop the overdrive to get up close with the blasters. I.e. Momentary speed. Therefore, Minny can be naturally the fastest tank with emphasis on shields, Ammar slowest and best armored. I'd also like to see Cal go back to passive shields so Min can be active shields. Tanks lost so much variety and skill in fitting. Now it is just basic roll around and blindside with a rail. Cheap and boring. Wait... Isn't Caldari the 2nd slowest race in EVE? Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 517	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:21:00 - [15] - Quote I don't know if drone's for vehicle's would be a hard fit . I look at the LLAV's when I think of that and the distance it took to spider and that could be the same for the drone , with their A.I. like stationary turrets where if you shoot at them they will shoot back but they really don't go out of their way to kill you unless your just that close . Activated from the mod wheel , you can increase the power of the vehicle's , like a capacitor where it boost's shield's , repair's them faster , draws from your shield's and armor repair's a team mate's vehicle . There are so many way's to incorporate vehicle enhancing drones . Apologize for going off track . Like the post though , nice ideal's and dialogue . Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12135	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:23:00 - [16] - Quote This series by Taka is actually quite good, but I worry that it'll be overlooked (despite the links in the OP) because it's spread over several threads and because of past reputation. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3279	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:38:00 - [17] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I don't know if drone's for vehicle's would be a hard fit . I look at the LLAV's when I think of that and the distance it took to spider and that could be the same for the drone , with their A.I. like stationary turrets where if you shoot at them they will shoot back but they really don't go out of their way to kill you unless your just that close . Activated from the mod wheel , you can increase the power of the vehicle's , like a capacitor where it boost's shield's , repair's them faster , draws from your shield's and armor repair's a team mate's vehicle . There are so many way's to incorporate vehicle enhancing drones . Apologize for going off track . Like the post though , nice ideal's and dialogue . The drone could be iffy Will it move or be stationary? How is it deployed? Frankly in DUST it maybe a turret that it fires out of the tank and will have x amount of shield and armor and will either be a blaster/missile or rail and will shoot at anything that generally moves until its dead or the drone is destroyed If it moved then it could be a problem because drones move fast so if it zips about the place and is a ***** to kill then OP towards infantry because no way to slow it down since no ewar
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 518	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:46:00 - [18] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Turrets on them are underpowered since theres no protection for the gunner and they're pretty weak against all suits. I don't know about this either . I use just a basic turret , I have advanced but incase I get killed I just put basic items on my LAV's ... and I kill or have killed ten in a match before just riding around railing people . I love railing a Heavy so I just don't know about the truthfulness in this statement . Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3279	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:46:00 - [19] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This series by Taka is actually quite good, but I worry that it'll be overlooked (despite the links in the OP) because it's spread over several threads and because of past reputation. Several threads is because i cant post in quick sucession because you get like 30secs between each post Also if it is because of past rep then frankly i wouldnt be reading the forums now if i was holding a grudge against some posters
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 518	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:48:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I don't know if drone's for vehicle's would be a hard fit . I look at the LLAV's when I think of that and the distance it took to spider and that could be the same for the drone , with their A.I. like stationary turrets where if you shoot at them they will shoot back but they really don't go out of their way to kill you unless your just that close . Activated from the mod wheel , you can increase the power of the vehicle's , like a capacitor where it boost's shield's , repair's them faster , draws from your shield's and armor repair's a team mate's vehicle . There are so many way's to incorporate vehicle enhancing drones . Apologize for going off track . Like the post though , nice ideal's and dialogue . The drone could be iffy Will it move or be stationary? How is it deployed? Frankly in DUST it maybe a turret that it fires out of the tank and will have x amount of shield and armor and will either be a blaster/missile or rail and will shoot at anything that generally moves until its dead or the drone is destroyed If it moved then it could be a problem because drones move fast so if it zips about the place and is a *** to kill then OP towards infantry because no way to slow it down since no ewar Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .**

Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 709	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:59:00 - [21] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Turrets on them are underpowered since theres no protection for the gunner and they're pretty weak against all suits. I don't know about this either . I use just a basic turret , I have advanced but incase I get killed I just put basic items on my LAV's ... and I kill or have killed ten in a match before just riding around railing people . I love railing a Heavy so I just don't know about the truthfulness in this statement . I've done the same. I'm not talking about hitting people at long range or picking people off. You cantdrive up to a group of people with one switch and start killing them. You'll die instantly or showcase going for you will. you can't aim them effectively at high speed so the only way to use them is to snipe. You can do that for 20/0 matches. But that's not the purpose of them. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12136	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:18:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: This series by Taka is actually quite good, but I worry that it'll be overlooked (despite the links in the OP) because it's spread over several threads and because of past reputation. Several threads is because i cant post in quick sucession because you get like 30secs between each post Also if it is because of past rep then frankly i wouldnt be reading the forums now if i was holding a grudge against some posters The way I deal with multi-post threads is to post the thread, quickly use quick reply once, then switch to an alt, post two, then switch back. The process tends to take under a minute - I've rarely been interrupted. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro


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