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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3246
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Posted - 2014.04.04 18:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Part 1: Engineering & Capacitors
Part 2: Armor & Shield
Part 3: Modules & Skills
Lore wise this is what the 4 races are described as according to CCP from the ISIS database.
Amarr - Excel at engagements using Energy Turrets, backed up by Drones. Prioritize Armor over Speed.
Caldari - Favor Missiles and Hybrid Turrets. Prioritize Shield over Speed.
Gallente - Rely on Hybrid Turrets, backed up by Drones. Balance Armor with Speed
Minmatar - Prefer Projectile Turrets. Balance Shield and Armor with Speed
Problem is we dont have the Amarr and Minmatar vehicles or turrets or even Drones which would be hard to include for vehicles.
But looking at the vehicles we do have, Caldari i would say should be slower but have more shields and Gallente should be faster but have less armor and a bit more shield.
It would mean then the Amarr would have more Armor than Gallente but be slower and Minmatar would have nearly equal amounts of Shield and Armor but be faster than Gallente.
Also it would mean lore wise Armor repairers would be active and Shields would also regen all the time and the passive Shield regen could also be improved through modules.
The vehicles we do have in DUST are simply put:
LAV - Fast transport
DS - Flying transport
ADS - Flying transport with teeth
HAV - A tank
We used to have Scout/Logi LAV/Logi DS/Mauraders/Enforcers and Black Ops HAVs which have been taken away to be tinkered with but to never be seen again.
In EVE terms i suppose the LAV is the Frigate and the HAV is a Battlecruiser maybe, the DS doesnt seem to fit the Cruiser role and we dont have a MAV which would be between the LAV and HAV.
The problem is the LAV is kinda useless, no one really uses it offensively and the HAV can crush it without trying, while the ADS is now alot more useful and can be a pain in the ass while the DS is a flying brick.
In EVE the Battlecruiser doesnt really have the ability to kill Frigates due to the Signature Radius of the Frigate which basically means its takes longer for the Battlecruiser to target and lock on to the Frigate and also its harder for the turrets to keep track of the Frigate unless you fit your ship out for specifically killing Frigates and other ships with a small signature radius. Missiles are exempt and will always hit providing it doesnt run out of fuel but not always at full damage due to the explosion radius.
But in DUST we dont lock on or target, we point and shoot (SL is the exception).
One way to make LAVs more resistant and useful was to give it resistances so it could take punishment and survive a bit longer when HAVs were on the field, this ended up as the Logi LAV which then became the murder taxi and ended up in being removed because it killed infantry really well and could survive a hell of a lot, for those that used it for Logi purposes it did work quite well but that number was extremely small.
Another way is to make the turrets fire slower, so a small turret would be faster firing while large turrets would be slower and medium is smack in the middle. It would mean that TTK between vehicles would be longer but also against small targets they would also be longer and possibly harder to hit aswell since large turrets do rotate slower or at least they do in EVE so smaller targets can evade quite easily.
A possible third way is kinda linked to signature radius but it has to do with the radar whenever that is working in 2019 i guess, basically the smaller the vehicle the less likely of it showing up so a LAV to a HAV would be basically invisible where as a DS would be picked up easier. Shield extenders and active AB/Nitro would increase your signature radius so you would get picked up quicker and from further away and it can also work for infantry too.
But we have infantry to deal with, smaller than a LAV and sometimes are a threat to our vehicles so if turrets were changed it means that gunners would need to be used since small turrets track better but would also need a zoom function and a possible range increase. Main problem from this is that if it becomes 3 to use a vehicle to protect it like a HAV for example would it take 3 to kill it?. Or would we make vehicles only go after each other and maybe make another vehicle class to purposely harass infantry so it gives pilots another reason to bring out a DS/HAV but the bottom line is that vehicles need a reason to be on the field whether it is harassing and killing infantry or being used to counteract the enemy vehicles or maybe even possibly in the future 2023 we are used to actually shoot through a wall and breach a compound.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3246
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 18:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
We also need skills for our vehicles, even in EVE the noob ship you start out in actually has bonuses attached to it, the only vehicle in DUST that has a skill bonus is the ADS even though it is attached to the skill book it still affects the vehicle.
Basic vehicles have no bonus, it is the same as the basic dropsuits so once you decide to go logi dropsuit that advanced basic dropsuit you unlocked to get access to the logi dropsuit is now useless, why would you use it? Even a simple bonus would suffice so for example Caldari HAV gets a 5% bonus to Shield capacity per level where as the LAV could get a 5% bonus to Shield recharge rate per level then if and when more vehicles are added then they could have a secondary skill related to the function of that vehicle like 5% to Missile damage per level. It makes all vehicles useful and its needed for new pilots because it makes there 1st vehicle useful and a little bit more powerful.
Now whether or not vehicles would be tiercided im not sure on, i would personally like to see advanced and prototype vehicle hulls to go with our adv/proto turrets and modules and then be able to pitch them against adv/proto AV weapons/dropsuits and modules. If they did become tiercided then obviously i would expect then to be something like the old vehicles we had where a HAV had 3H/5M/2L for example but with enough PG/CPU to be able to put on most proto modules like i can do on my proto Amarr logi suit.
Another thing which happens to be missing is Rigs, now Rigs offer a bonus like 10% to Shield capacity but also has a drawback that it would increase the Signature radius by 10% but also they are a one time use only, once it is fitted it cannot be taken off unless you choose to destroy it or the vehicles is destroyed which means you lose everything. The rigs in DUST would have to be changed, so with Missiles the drawback could be like 5% higher PG costs or 5% to railgun heat build up while the T2 versions would have bigger advantages but also bigger disadvantages.
So with these changes any vehicle would have a bonus, lore wise it would be generally correct i hope, shield would act like it does in EVE along with armor, more modules and variety would be added with the better vehicle hulls and rig slots and everyone gets a useful vehicle with more choice. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3248
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 12:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bump |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3249
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 12:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:I'm not really certain what your point is, Taka.
How? |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3249
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 14:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:I agree with your break down of vehicles because it means gallente are getting their rails back so now cal and gal can share them.
Disagree with some of the other stuff.
light suits are frigates. cruisers are medium suits and heavies are battleships.
I see a tank as more like a dreadnought/Titan. biggest of the big.
Dropships are carriers obviously.
Not sure what a lav is. Turrets on them are underpowered since theres no protection for the gunner and they're pretty weak against all suits. it'd be cool to have a lav with a controllable turret for the driver lol. I'd use that.
and we need a medium vehicle.
I just used the comparision of EVE ships to vehicles since they are vehicles |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3271
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 17:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bump |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3279
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 19:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I don't know if drone's for vehicle's would be a hard fit .
I look at the LLAV's when I think of that and the distance it took to spider and that could be the same for the drone , with their A.I. like stationary turrets where if you shoot at them they will shoot back but they really don't go out of their way to kill you unless your just that close .
Activated from the mod wheel , you can increase the power of the vehicle's , like a capacitor where it boost's shield's , repair's them faster , draws from your shield's and armor repair's a team mate's vehicle .
There are so many way's to incorporate vehicle enhancing drones .
Apologize for going off track .
Like the post though , nice ideal's and dialogue .
The drone could be iffy
Will it move or be stationary?
How is it deployed?
Frankly in DUST it maybe a turret that it fires out of the tank and will have x amount of shield and armor and will either be a blaster/missile or rail and will shoot at anything that generally moves until its dead or the drone is destroyed
If it moved then it could be a problem because drones move fast so if it zips about the place and is a ***** to kill then OP towards infantry because no way to slow it down since no ewar |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3279
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 19:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:This series by Taka is actually quite good, but I worry that it'll be overlooked (despite the links in the OP) because it's spread over several threads and because of past reputation.
Several threads is because i cant post in quick sucession because you get like 30secs between each post
Also if it is because of past rep then frankly i wouldnt be reading the forums now if i was holding a grudge against some posters |
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