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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10306
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Posted - 2014.04.05 16:05:00 -
[61] - Quote
The Terminator T-1000 wrote:Really? A proto swarm launcher with prof 5 and 2 complex mods on a proto minmatar commando suit which adds extra 10% damage does less damage than an advance swarm back in 1.6 before all the nerfs to swarms, dmg mods and prof.
Swarms range should be increased to 250 meters and damage increased to 300 My brother uses a Minmatar commando (level 4), has advanced swarms, and he's pretty effective at AV. Either you're doing it wrong, or you're expecting too much.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10306
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Posted - 2014.04.05 16:15:00 -
[62] - Quote
@Takashiro Kashuken: I do like the idea of having capacitors in Dust, as well as more varied modules to increase the diversity of vehicle fits on the battlefield. I also very much the idea of stasis webifiers, and neutralizers at the hands of infantry. All skills should indeed have bonuses.
@Harpyja: I think we have fundamentally different views of what large blasters should be like. Also, I commented on your earlier post as well on the previous page.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Samahiel
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
332
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Posted - 2014.04.05 18:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
I want to put this bugbear to rest, because it's one of the stupidest fallacies that continues to rear it's ugly head in these discussions.
CCP has stated multiple times that they do not balance around isk.
At most potential effectiveness for isk scales logarithmically with perfect tactical choices and perfect strategic application. |
Alpha 443-6732
General Tso's Alliance
394
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Posted - 2014.04.06 17:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
TERMINALANCE wrote:Its not anyway balanced. dedicated AV should always have the advantage over tanks in a 1v1 context, its what the role does. Pro AV forgegun fit is expensive. over 250k isk each, its super weak vs all other infantry and it is the slowest moving largest hitbox most easily detected suit in the game that is vulnerable to all weapon systems. A proto av forgegun should have no trouble taking out a proto tank 1v1 if the forgegun gets first round hit and has the high ground. Proto swarms should take a maximum of 2v1 tank to have a almost guaranteed kill vs enemy tanks. Any more then that and the entire games match balance becomes unworkable.
Now either this means you reduce tank and av prices so tanks get used to dieing more and get rid of this KD invulnerable attitude. or you raise the price of the AV and tank fits and Largely raise the rewards for killing tanks so its work the extra effort. or you create a better system for tanks to be in the game, with cooldowns for calling in tanks during the match, and other features.
But AV does have an advantage over tanks in a 1v1
its called a RAILGUN
and when you want to counter the RAILGUN, bring out infantry AV
leave e a v e |
Alpha 443-6732
General Tso's Alliance
394
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Posted - 2014.04.06 17:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Samahiel wrote:I want to put this bugbear to rest, because it's one of the stupidest fallacies that continues to rear it's ugly head in these discussions.
CCP has stated multiple times that they do not balance around isk.
At most potential effectiveness for isk scales logarithmically with perfect tactical choices and perfect strategic application.
To explain, since some of you are unfamiliar with the reasoning. Balancing around isk or any other number leads to an arms race that quickly reaches a static balance of an ultimate min-maxed solution. For a truly dynamic meta, you need a rock-paper-scissors type balance where increased strength, effectiveness, flexibility or other advantage comes as the result of an ultimate and non-negotiable weakness or limitation.
For a positive contribution to the discussion; I would support more options, other than raw damage, for infantry AV. Deployable area denial along the lines of prox mines. Say AOE stasis webifiers to stop a retreat, or energy neutralizers to deactivate hardeners/reps; Movable tank barricades to deny access and limit mobility; and those deployable personal shields CCP promised back when cloaks were first talked about. How about expanding hacking to not just taking nullcannons, but to also raising and lowering barricades?
They dont need to balance solely around isk, but items need to show a general quality for how much they cost.
I think I've said the bolded before and I completely agree with you on that part |
Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1526
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Posted - 2014.04.06 17:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:@Takashiro Kashuken: I do like the idea of having capacitors in Dust, as well as more varied modules to increase the diversity of vehicle fits on the battlefield. I also very much the idea of stasis webifiers, and neutralizers at the hands of infantry. All skills should indeed have bonuses.
@Harpyja: I think we have fundamentally different views of what large blasters should be like. Also, I commented on your earlier post as well on the previous page. And indeed we do.
You mentioned that small turrets should be purposed for AI instead. I don't really see how that will work, considering that it's the turret type that determines what it's good for, not its size. Its size only determines which vehicles can use that kind of turret and to what degree of effectiveness.
The turret types are as follows: Blaster Railgun Missile Autocannon Artillery Beam Laser Pulse Laser
The turrets with high RoF are italicized. These are the turrets that will have an easier time hitting infantry than the other turrets. There's nothing that you can do about it. I'd be very interested to know how you can make their different sizes have different roles, because to me, it's the turret type that determines its role, whereas turret size determines fitting ability and effectiveness.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
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Alpha 443-6732
General Tso's Alliance
394
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Posted - 2014.04.06 18:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:@Takashiro Kashuken: I do like the idea of having capacitors in Dust, as well as more varied modules to increase the diversity of vehicle fits on the battlefield. I also very much the idea of stasis webifiers, and neutralizers at the hands of infantry. All skills should indeed have bonuses.
@Harpyja: I think we have fundamentally different views of what large blasters should be like. Also, I commented on your earlier post as well on the previous page. And indeed we do. You mentioned that small turrets should be purposed for AI instead. I don't really see how that will work, considering that it's the turret type that determines what it's good for, not its size. Its size only determines which vehicles can use that kind of turret and to what degree of effectiveness. The turret types are as follows: BlasterRailgun Missile AutocannonArtillery Beam Laser Pulse LaserThe turrets with high RoF are italicized. These are the turrets that will have an easier time hitting infantry than the other turrets. There's nothing that you can do about it. I'd be very interested to know how you can make their different sizes have different roles, because to me, it's the turret type that determines its role, whereas turret size determines fitting ability and effectiveness.
As long as the turret makes a reasonable compromise for its infantry killing power, it should be fine. The current blasters aren't really that much of a problem, to people that pay attention and use cover.
If a heavy/tank has a bunch of you suppressed, remove the line of sight and reengage at a different angle, don't run TOWARDS it like a moron.
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