DUST Search - Vehicles vs AV is almost balanced

Nothing Certain wrote:

I might make a separate post regarding the ISK balance argument that tankers often make. I think you can make a viable AV fit for around 50K, I also think a comparable tank would be 500K. I'm being generous to the tankers because the argument allows me to be.

If we look at ISK/efficiency ratios at different equipment and weapons what do we find. Let's start with swarms (you'll have to look the numbers up since I am using my phone) STD have 4 missiles as our base. Pay 10 times the ISK , you get 25% more missiles, proto cost 40X and gives you 50% more. Combat Rifle: 10X:10% DPS , 50X:20% DPS

My numbers are off but gives us the magnitude if change we should consider. Let's go with the 10X:25% increase in one attribute as a astandard. If we consider a tank a "module" then spending 10X the isk should give us 25% more efficiency. The fastest drop suit is about 12 m/s, a tank therefore should have a top speed of 16 m/s. Drop suit total HP is about 2500, tanks should have 3125. Continue this with damage and range and you will see where tanks should be to be truly balanced and consistent with the rest of the game.

The funny thing is no one is even arguing for true balance, we all accept that vehicles should be OP and out of line with the rest of the game. We accept that they are inherently unfair and what we argue about is just how unfair is tolerable and makes for good gameplay, but please don't try to convince us that you are owed this level of advantage because you paid more for it.


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TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 283	Posted - 2014.04.04 21:58:00 - [1] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: As I poi ted out in the thread OP linked, the math used was horridly flawed. AFG has nearly 900 DPs, and reps can do just shy of 475 HP/s. A single forge gunner can kill a repper tank. Two makes it even easier. Obviously you didn't read the linked thread well enough, the DPS shown there took into account charge time and reload speed. EDIT: also the max possible repair rate a Madrugar can get when it has an advanced neutron blaster, is 512.5 HP/s when it has 2 complex and 1 advanced heavy repairer modules on with maximum fitting skills and vehicle armor repair systems to lv5. Schooled.
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 283	Posted - 2014.04.04 22:08:00 - [2] - Quote Its not anyway balanced. dedicated AV should always have the advantage over tanks in a 1v1 context, its what the role does. Pro AV forgegun fit is expensive. over 250k isk each, its super weak vs all other infantry and it is the slowest moving largest hitbox most easily detected suit in the game that is vulnerable to all weapon systems. A proto av forgegun should have no trouble taking out a proto tank 1v1 if the forgegun gets first round hit and has the high ground. Proto swarms should take a maximum of 2v1 tank to have a almost guaranteed kill vs enemy tanks. Any more then that and the entire games match balance becomes unworkable. Now either this means you reduce tank and av prices so tanks get used to dieing more and get rid of this KD invulnerable attitude. or you raise the price of the AV and tank fits and Largely raise the rewards for killing tanks so its work the extra effort. or you create a better system for tanks to be in the game, with cooldowns for calling in tanks during the match, and other features.
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 283	Posted - 2014.04.04 23:47:00 - [3] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: I might make a separate post regarding the ISK balance argument that tankers often make. I think you can make a viable AV fit for around 50K, I also think a comparable tank would be 500K. I'm being generous to the tankers because the argument allows me to be. If we look at ISK/efficiency ratios at different equipment and weapons what do we find. Let's start with swarms (you'll have to look the numbers up since I am using my phone) STD have 4 missiles as our base. Pay 10 times the ISK , you get 25% more missiles, proto cost 40X and gives you 50% more. Combat Rifle: 10X:10% DPS , 50X:20% DPS My numbers are off but gives us the magnitude if change we should consider. Let's go with the 10X:25% increase in one attribute as a astandard. If we consider a tank a "module" then spending 10X the isk should give us 25% more efficiency. The fastest drop suit is about 12 m/s, a tank therefore should have a top speed of 16 m/s. Drop suit total HP is about 2500, tanks should have 3125. Continue this with damage and range and you will see where tanks should be to be truly balanced and consistent with the rest of the game. The funny thing is no one is even arguing for true balance, we all accept that vehicles should be OP and out of line with the rest of the game. We accept that they are inherently unfair and what we argue about is just how unfair is tolerable and makes for good gameplay, but please don't try to convince us that you are owed this level of advantage because you paid more for it. I am