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Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
125
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Posted - 2014.04.04 08:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
We are only 10 days into 1.8 and obviously one new addition has made its mark, the Cloak. The cloak is a controversial piece of equipment that many claim needs to be nerfed or should not belong in Dust 514. A cloaked scout with a shotgun or ScR is a deadly force on the battlefield. Some say that these scouts are too deadly, unnecessarily deadly. I say as a cloak user, that a cloak is a great equalizer for the glass cannon that runs in the shadows.
In my opinion the worst part about the cloak at this point in time is its popularity. The number of new scouts operating under the safety of the cloak is as it should be for a new piece of equipment and will level off as players begin to adjust to the prevelance of cloaks within the battlefield. A lot of users have already become aware of the cloaking threat and stay focused and alert, and they stay alive. As many more players begin to learn and adapt to the shimmering blue players running around and the player shaped distortions standing in the corners, i feel the number of cloak users will decrease and it will find its rightful place in the battlefield. The scout now has a relevance in Dust and is not subjected to a below 1.00 KDR or only picking off the stragglers.
Once the cloak has become just another piece of equipment and loses its luster, it will take its places no longer being "the cloak" but joining all other equipment a scout uses as being "the scout". Once it has joined the rest of the scouts equipment and it becomes the scout not just the cloak, it will factor in the balance of the scout against other roles. The balance between scouts and heavies is exactly where it should be, If the heavies more skilled than the scout, heavy wins. If a scout is more skilled than a heavy, Scout wins. the player makes the suit the suit doesn't make the player.
The balance between the scout and the medium frame (i.e. Logis, Assault, basic Mediums) is unfairly balanced for the scout to come out on top the majority of the encounters. Such could be said between heavy's and medium frames as well. Using teamwork should be necessary for the majority of tasks within this game. It adds depth to Dust514 as it is currently lacking. Yet, i strangely find myself encountering three to four medium framed players and painting the walls with their suits. This... as fun as it is... is not balance. I as a paper suit with a hand cannon should be able to kill two, maybe three enemies depending on my skill, but, to clear out a squad with one scout seems.... what were those words... too deadly.
My suggestion to alleviate the imbalance between scouts and there slightly slower brethren is to implement a movement and sprint speed reduction while cloaked. I have experimented with many combinations of fittings on my beloved ck.0 and i have found my easy mode. A cloak, A shotgun and Kinetic Catalyzers, This combination allows me to move at speeds to fast for the majority of players to fire at even before the cloak was introduced. Now i move the quick and you cant see me, oh and btw that shimmer your looking for... good luck.. I'm in and out of your view before you know it.
The issues i see with a speed reduction while cloaked is the increase of camping scouts. If a scout cant run around cloaked from objective to objective, they'll camp. This isn't necessarily bad but its definitely not good, no one likes a camper and its good way to get the cloak a bad wrap. This also means that cloaked scouts must decloak to make a hasty escape, something i personally dont find comforting as a paper suit my life blood is being able to run away, quickly!
I dont know the future of the cloak and i hope it finds its place in DUST 514, it is a great equalizer for the sadist who dawned the scout suit pre 1.8 and puts us on the level with all our brothers in arms. My only hope is that we can find balance in the game as players adapting and learning rather than calling in CCP to give a hand out nerf because players can no longer run the battlefield by themselves for fear of men like me.
Lastly i will close with one blunt statement in the whole matter, Flux grenades should drain the cloak. It destroys all other equipment yet is useless against the cloak. You gave us this equipment now give them a viable counter.
Thank you for reading Happy Hunting
TL;DR: Give the cloak some time to not be so new and popular, Give players time to adapt and learn the counters to cloaks
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
125
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Posted - 2014.04.04 08:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:I think its time the forums make a sticky thread on cloaks...
Agreed
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
127
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Posted - 2014.04.04 09:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Salviatino Maiano wrote: I say as a cloak user, that a cloak is a great equalizer for the glass cannon that runs in the shadows 600 EHP with cloak, 800 without. or even better, leave your second equip slot empty and leave nades at home and you get even more than 600 with cloak the only scout that is a glass cannon is the minmatar one, because his fittings are gimped beyond measure. in short, it does not matter what you think cause you lost all credibility by this one statement alone
600-800 hp compared to.... medium frames that average in the 900-1100 HP or heavy's with 1100-1400 hp, since we are talking about proto gear. Please be constructive and concise with your comments, your attempt has been deconstructive and even less credible a comment and is ruining a possibly good talk, now move along
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
129
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Posted - 2014.04.04 09:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Salviatino Maiano wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Salviatino Maiano wrote: I say as a cloak user, that a cloak is a great equalizer for the glass cannon that runs in the shadows 600 EHP with cloak, 800 without. or even better, leave your second equip slot empty and leave nades at home and you get even more than 600 with cloak the only scout that is a glass cannon is the minmatar one, because his fittings are gimped beyond measure. in short, it does not matter what you think cause you lost all credibility by this one statement alone 600-800 hp compared to.... medium frames that average in the 900-1100 HP or heavy's with 1100-1400 hp, since we are talking about proto gear. Please be constructive and concise with your comments, your attempt has been deconstructive and even less credible a comment and is ruining a possibly good talk, now move along Actually it 700-900 Scouts against 500-600 Assaults and 1800 Heavies. Anyway Irrespective. The problem with the cloak is not down to how easy it is to see or how you need to pay attention, that's just Claokers whining because they are trying to defend cloaks using very little evidence. Just so everyone knows, its a cloak it is designed to be hard to see, that's why its hard to see. However that isn't the main crux of the problem. Orginally when the cloak was under development CCP released a statement on how this mechanic would work, they had originally planned to allow you to fire whilst cloaked. Doing so however 90% of the timewould completely drained your energy and you would be forcibly decloaked for the next 20 secs, more often tham not sealing your doom, however the forum community told CCP this was a bad idea, they said they didn't want people firing while cloaked period. So CCP listened and changed the cloak so anh acction other than hacking decloaked you. Do you not think if the ability to fire under the effects were purposeful they would left in that penalty? All we want is for CCP to do what they promised, we don't care which they prefer but so far, even the first version is better than the current.
500-600 assaults, i know they made some changes and my number weren't exact but If i may speculate im pretty sure PRO assaults can cap out around about 900 eHP. I may be wrong but like you said irrespective.
So your perspective is that you should be able to fire while cloaked ( I do recall this being a early statement about cloak functions) and suffer a timed penalty after firing I.E. cloak recharge time after firing. This is better than the current build. Interesting, I see how this would alter the use of cloaks and would definitely revert the post first shot play back to pre 1.8 scouting tactics. Good feedback, ty.
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
130
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Posted - 2014.04.04 10:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Salviatino Maiano wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Salviatino Maiano wrote: I say as a cloak user, that a cloak is a great equalizer for the glass cannon that runs in the shadows 600 EHP with cloak, 800 without. or even better, leave your second equip slot empty and leave nades at home and you get even more than 600 with cloak the only scout that is a glass cannon is the minmatar one, because his fittings are gimped beyond measure. in short, it does not matter what you think cause you lost all credibility by this one statement alone 600-800 hp compared to.... medium frames that average in the 900-1100 HP or heavy's with 1100-1400 hp, since we are talking about proto gear. Please be constructive and concise with your comments, your attempt has been deconstructive and even less credible a comment and is ruining a possibly good talk, now move along my comments are always credible, hardened by facts and fueled by experience since dust beta started. I can talk how I want as long as I do not break the forum rules. if you do not like how I talk with you, well here is a tissue, cry me river. #gitgud and how about you stop exaggerating and get your facts straight? scouts, with current slot layout, can fit the same tanks that assaults can, they have only lower EHP because the suits have lower HP but we are talking about values of ~100 and only if the assault suit can actually fit all that slots with maximum tank, the minmatar assault for example cannot. for that minor HP decrease scout gets higher speed, better shield recharge, smaller hitbox, cloak, second equipment slot and automatically beats advanced scanners without any investment. both suits deals the same damage in combat. currently there is no point in running assault for combat, scout is the new assault. Salviatino Maiano wrote:able to fire while cloaked. you can already fire while cloaked. the decloak animation for you on your screen might be instant but it isnt for everyone else. and before someone comes in and claims it is cause of lag, how about you use common sense: -everything is server side -if the decloaker lags then his fired weapon would also lag
So the first part.... derailing and not constructive.. yet again... hmmm been around since beta and you haven't learned how to have a conversation about this game without wipping out the measuring stick. second part you use my comment out of context, i was simply repeating back what someone else had suggested while they gave their helpful and insightful comment about the cloak because i wanted to make sure i understood and they knew i actually understood.
If you've come here to show me how much more you know about this game than me, ok, you win, you know so much, please move along and let me try to have a constructive convo about.... wait for it.... cloaks...
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
133
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Posted - 2014.04.05 00:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Salviatino Maiano wrote: So the first part.... derailing and not constructive...
the only thing derailing in this thread is the lack of proper information from your side I am sorry that my holy mission is to smite unworthy peasants when they write something stupid in the forum, deal with it #gitgud
Ok, epeen stroked, measuring stick put away, im "giting gud" now, you're cool, im not.... you're handsome, im ugly... you get all the girls, i dont... You're popular, i'm lame.... you're smart, i'm dumb... you're the best, i'm the worst... your always right, I'm always wrong... can we talk about the cloak now?
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
135
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Posted - 2014.04.05 00:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dunk Mujunk wrote:Salviatino Maiano wrote:
600-800 hp compared to.... medium frames that average in the 900-1100 HP or heavy's with 1100-1400 hp, since we are talking about proto gear. Please be constructive and concise with your comments, your attempt has been deconstructive and even less credible a comment and is ruining a possibly good talk, now move along
There was a nice constructive conversation about cloaks going on until this was posted.
I'm sorry, I'll admit i responded and derailed can we move on... no?
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
135
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Posted - 2014.04.05 00:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:I have a good Caldari Assault fit with over 1000 EHP. 4 Complex Shield Extenders 3 Enhanced Armor Plates Boundless Combat Rifle Basic Flaylock Pistol Basic Flux Grenades
Yeah, i'm trying to get this moved to another thread i started, I run assault as well on my alt. and this Jack McReady guy has onlt been playing dust less than 1 month longer than me. If you want to make a statement about the cloak look for my thread in GD.
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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