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Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2575	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:27:00 - [1] - Quote What is the point? If I invest to level five precision enhancement I need to fit three complex mods or I can't spot a lightly dampened scout. If I invest in level five dampening I need to fit too many mods (i.e. More than the one slot of my three that I can spare) to avoid being scanned. Range enhancement is a joke. What is the point in these EWAR skills when no matter what they do I can't get a sufficient bonus out of them? And why do people keep advocating them? ak.0 4 LYFE CCP GIB LANCE TURRET PLOX LET ME MELEE PEOPLE WITH MY STEED
jerrmy12 kahoalii 872	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:29:00 - [2] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: What is the point? If I invest to level five precision enhancement I need to fit three complex mods or I can't spot a lightly dampened scout. If I invest in level five dampening I need to fit too many mods (i.e. More than the one slot of my three that I can spare) to avoid being scanned. Range enhancement is a joke. What is the point in these EWAR skills when no matter what they do I can't get a sufficient bonus out of them? And why do people keep advocating them? I scan med frames with my cal sentinel with decent range... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3933	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:31:00 - [3] - Quote Dust is pushing people towards a more tactical approach. Now more than ever its best to be in squad where you have guys fulfilling their roles to bring about overall squad combat effectiveness. Solo is fine but you miss out on key components that another might have that you need to fight. Dropsuits are complimenting other dropsuits. Why you see logi equipment bonus and such Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Sardonk Eternia RisingSuns 199	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:31:00 - [4] - Quote You might not be scanning scouts on your assault suit but a couple of modules can make every other assault show up to you
jerrmy12 kahoalii 872	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:32:00 - [5] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Dust is pushing people towards a more tactical approach. Now more than ever, you can go solo, its best to be in squad where you have guys fulfilling their roles to bring about overall squad combat effectiveness. Dropsuits are complimenting other dropsuits. Why you see logi equipment bonus and such You mean like cal scout scanning for say, heavies? Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2575	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:34:00 - [6] - Quote Sardonk Eternia wrote: You might not be scanning scouts on your assault suit but a couple of modules can make every other assault show up to you Inside ten metres. Where I should be using my awareness. If my scans don't help me detect clackers, they don't matter. The issue is that HP or damage or whatever else is far, far more useful than trying to hide from things that see me anyway, and to try and see things I haven't a hope of spotting. Inside ten metres if you're a heavy or medium I probably know you're there already. ak.0 4 LYFE CCP GIB LANCE TURRET PLOX LET ME MELEE PEOPLE WITH MY STEED
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 502	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:36:00 - [7] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Sardonk Eternia wrote: You might not be scanning scouts on your assault suit but a couple of modules can make every other assault show up to you Inside ten metres. Where I should be using my awareness. If my scans don't help me detect clackers, they don't matter. The issue is that HP or damage or whatever else is far, far more useful than trying to hide from things that see me anyway, and to try and see things I haven't a hope of spotting. Inside ten metres if you're a heavy or medium I probably know you're there already. its actully comical how many people i sneak up on in my amarr fatsuit. ccp you broke the forge. skills are not being applied till 30 secs after spawn fixes before nerfs thank you.
Taeryn Frost Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 210	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:36:00 - [8] - Quote Sardonk Eternia wrote: You might not be scanning scouts on your assault suit but a couple of modules can make every other assault show up to you People still run assaults?
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 2217	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:41:00 - [9] - Quote You know, I used to shank people (with Nova Knives) while in a basic heavy frame using dampeners. You really shouldn't underestimate the capability of EWAR, even in the silliest of things. As the cloaking Plasma Cannon users also know, you can do hilarious things if you put yourself to that mindset. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara, Uprising 1.7 Long live the Commandos!
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 421	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:42:00 - [10] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Dust is pushing people towards a more tactical approach. Now more than ever its best to be in squad where you have guys fulfilling their roles to bring about overall squad combat effectiveness. Solo is fine but you miss out on key components that another might have that you need to fight. Dropsuits are complimenting other dropsuits. Why you see logi equipment bonus and such No, its not. Scouts got the **** buffed out of them and now it's either scout or sentinel 514. Medium frames have no way to compete because shotgun scouts that are now below advanced scanners without ANY SP INVESTMENT INTO DAMPENING are eating them alive. The cloak is way, way more powerful than intended and makes it near impossible for anything that isn't a gallente logi with 2 focused proto scans or a cal scout with 2-3 complex precision amps and 2 complex range amps to pick up another scout that has so much as a single damp and a cloak on. Just like YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED was an unfun state of being and should never have been allowed to happen, cloaking should not be a near permanent state of being - scouts need to be picked up by things other than proto scans.

Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 671	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:45:00 - [11] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: What is the point? If I invest to level five precision enhancement I need to fit three complex mods or I can't spot a lightly dampened scout. If I invest in level five dampening I need to fit too many mods (i.e. More than the one slot of my three that I can spare) to avoid being scanned. Range enhancement is a joke. What is the point in these EWAR skills when no matter what they do I can't get a sufficient bonus out of them? And why do people keep advocating them? You are not wrong. There really is a HUGE imbalance when it comes to EWAR as it is in-game right now. Actually the base stats altogether are just not very well balanced. This is a big part of the reason why we keep getting "brick tanked" whatever that can swap into the assault role on a whim. Fixing swarms
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2575	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:53:00 - [12] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: You know, I used to shank people (with Nova Knives) while in a basic heavy frame using dampeners. You really shouldn't underestimate the capability of EWAR, even in the silliest of things. As the cloaking Plasma Cannon users also know, you can do hilarious things if you put yourself to that mindset. I get that, and dampening is definitely on my list, but it's just not a priority anymore. Now that I have to expend slots to get any benefit at all out of the skill (unlike, say, investing in fitting or hacking, even) and that the benefits when I do expend slots are so very situational and simply less useful than more HO, I have zero desire to invest in it and apparently I really like run-on sentences. I was really excited for getting dampening skills, but they're not worthwhile for anyone but a scout anymore. ak.0 4 LYFE Give me a reason to dampen my Assault, CCP!
Yan Darn Science For Death 507	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:54:00 - [13] - Quote EWAR overall is a bit weird - even among scouts. The main problem with EWAR is that it's benefits are 'Binary' you either scan/evade scan or you don't. There is no middle ground. Before 1.8 a fully skilled scout could go under regular proto scanners with a basic dampener - the benefits of upgrading that to a complex dampener? None. Zero. Zilch. The next step up (evading focused scanners) was only possible for proto gal scout (gal logi as well?) with 4 complex dampeners. Fitting a better tank makes it more likely you can survive a fight. Fitting better weapons/damage mods makes it more likely you can kill an enemy. Fitting better EWAR, does not make it 'more likely' your scanning situation is gonna get better - it's a 'you must be this tall...' System. The situation is less ridiculous for scouts now I guess, but the problem still exists in general. I can't help but feel other frames are considering EWAR skills in general and encountering this problem. I'm a (Hipster) Gal Scout but even I say - scanning mechanics need to have some kind 'analogue' element to them - but this would require a overhaul of ewar in general... The Ghost of Bravo
Rusty Shallows 1401	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:57:00 - [14] - Quote I run a single precision enhancer on the Combat Engineer ALT. It's to catch the other medium frames running a single damp and free up fitting options. With the dB on Assaults I probably wouldn't bother. If I skill up into a Sentinel with a second high slot there will definitely be a precision enhancer on there. Those medium frames with the dampening skill at 5 have been getting a free-pass for way too long. Can't agree more on the scan range modules. I'd rather fit a dampener on any of my frames or a code breaker while playing Ambush. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4856	Posted - 2014.04.04 08:23:00 - [15] - Quote Assaults are currently the UP suit in the game. If they get a buff to their slot layout and PG/CPU, then they'll have enough slots to get a decent tank AND still be capable of handling a decent EWAR fitting. As a side effect of the proposed change, more players will be running Assault suits. As the Assault suit's base precision is higher than its Scan Profile, stealth-tanked Assaults will be dangerous when most players are running those suits. Additionally, since their profile matches the precision of a Logi suit, they'll be able to stealth tank well enough to be invisible to anything but a scanning-focused Logi fitting or a Scout suit. No matter what, EWAR will always be the domain of Scouts, with only a few EWAR Logi fittings being able to keep up. Assaults can use EWAR, but it's not their primary role OR their intended role - just an aid to their performance in other areas.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3935	Posted - 2014.04.04 08:31:00 - [16] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: No, its not. Scouts got the **** buffed out of them and now it's either scout or sentinel 514. Medium frames have no way to compete because shotgun scouts that are now below advanced scanners without ANY SP INVESTMENT INTO DAMPENING are eating them alive. The cloak is way, way more powerful than intended and makes it near impossible for anything that isn't a gallente logi with 2 focused proto scans or a cal scout with 2-3 complex precision amps and 2 complex range amps to pick up another scout that has so much as a single damp and a cloak on. Just like YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED was an unfun state of being and should never have been allowed to happen, cloaking should not be a near permanent state of being - scouts need to be picked up by things other than proto scans. My answer is in my post and I feel I'm repeating myself. That's why its best to run in a squad where everybody fulfills a certain role. A "you watch my back, I watch yours" style. The cloak isn't way way more powerful. If its left up to alot of you guys, this game would be decided over paper football. Instead of adapting to the changes, you guys continually moan and groan. All the time. The YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED came about when so many of you suggested WPs for scanned targets killed. The scenario you're talking about is for a solo medium frame who isn't in a squad with a scout, logi, and a heavy. Battlefield awareness is everything and even much better when you have 4 or 5 pairs of eyes to help you. I just wonder when folks are going to toughen up and say, "hey, I can beat that". Just so many whiners and not enough heart in "mercenaries" who fight in the hostile universe of New Eden. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3935	Posted - 2014.04.04 08:33:00 - [17] - Quote If folks moaning about cloaks, I can't imagine what is going to be like once CCP implements more of eWar factors into this game. Nerf web stasis inbound Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2703	Posted - 2014.04.04 09:11:00 - [18] - Quote Play to your suit's strengths. Scouts (and to a lesser extent logis) are strong on the ewar side, so they excel at making the most of ewar mods. Heavies are strong on the tanking side, so they excel at making the most of HP mods (the resistance bonuses make HP mods 15 - 25% stronger). Assaults are the runt of the litter because they didn't get their respective buff in 1.8 and the skill bonuses they did get did not really aid their DPS role a whole lot, just more cajoled them into more race specific weapons combos. Don't get me wrong, you can still fit ewar to your assault but it's not playing to your strengths. If you want to be picking up scouts on your passive scan, you're going to have to use a scout (or certain logi setups). All this said, perhaps a better role skill bonus for assaults could be increased efficacy of damage mods? Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2084	Posted - 2014.04.04 09:14:00 - [19] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Play to your suit's strengths. Scouts (and to a lesser extent logis) are strong on the ewar side, so they excel at making the most of ewar mods. Heavies are strong on the tanking side, so they excel at making the most of HP mods (the resistance bonuses make HP mods 15 - 25% stronger). Assaults are the runt of the litter because they didn't get their respective buff in 1.8 and the skill bonuses they did get did not really aid their DPS role a whole lot, just more cajoled them into more race specific weapons combos. Don't get me wrong, you can still fit ewar to your assault but it's not playing to your strengths. If you want to be picking up scouts on your passive scan, you're going to have to use a scout (or certain logi setups). All this said, perhaps a better role skill bonus for assaults could be increased efficacy of damage mods? Jetpacks, more CPU and PG is what they need. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3942	Posted - 2014.04.04 09:35:00 - [20] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Tron cycles Fixed Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8056	Posted - 2014.04.04 09:35:00 - [21] - Quote I would recommend increasing assault's scan range to 16m. If you max out the scanning skill, that's 24m, a considerable amount. Then, reduce the base precision of Cal Assault to 45dB from 50dB, and base profile of Gal Assault to 40dB from 50dB. (With scouts, the profile is 5dB lower than the precision) So you get the EWAR races that are slightly better at certain things, but not overwhelmingly so. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2577	Posted - 2014.04.04 09:39:00 - [22] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: If folks moaning about cloaks, I can't imagine what is going to be like once CCP implements more of eWar factors into this game. Nerf web stasis inbound I'm not really moaning about cloaks :) I'm just irritated that the lack-of-a-role my Assault has always had is exacerbated now by the scouts, heavies, and to a lesser extent the logis. And that people keep suggesting that as a counter to cloaks I fit precision mods. ak.0 4 LYFE Give me a reason to dampen my Assault, CCP!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2705	Posted - 2014.04.04 09:39:00 - [23] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I would recommend increasing assault's scan range to 16m. If you max out the scanning skill, that's 24m, a considerable amount. Then, reduce the base precision of Cal Assault to 45dB from 50dB, and base profile of Gal Assault to 40dB from 50dB. (With scouts, the profile is 5dB lower than the precision) So you get the EWAR races that are slightly better at certain things, but not overwhelmingly so. No. Ewar advantages are for ewar based suits. Assaults are not ewar based. Granted their base is not very well supported at the moment because they didn't get slot/stat adjustments in 1.8 and their bonuses are mostly guff but they certainly should not be made more ewar based. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Loki Patera xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 104	Posted - 2014.04.04 09:44:00 - [24] - Quote Hate the way that the stats for your changing precision - range - profile aren't provided when you add various EWAR modules - I'm no goo dat maths and it makes it impossible to compare what advantage you have over another type of suit. That is if I'm not missing something - forgive me if so - but would be good if the stats appeared in fittings like HP. I want to adjust my assault for the post 1.8 era, but it's hard to know what to fit in terms of EWAR. Open Beta vet - in it for the long haul
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2577	Posted - 2014.04.04 10:09:00 - [25] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I would recommend increasing assault's scan range to 16m. If you max out the scanning skill, that's 24m, a considerable amount. Then, reduce the base precision of Cal Assault to 45dB from 50dB, and base profile of Gal Assault to 40dB from 50dB. (With scouts, the profile is 5dB lower than the precision) So you get the EWAR races that are slightly better at certain things, but not overwhelmingly so. No. Ewar advantages are for ewar based suits. Assaults are not ewar based. Granted their base is not very well supported at the moment because they didn't get slot/stat adjustments in 1.8 and their bonuses are mostly guff but they certainly should not be made more ewar based. Making them EWAR based wouldn't mean they could do it very well. Although 16m might be pushing it; 13-14 is probably more sensible. ak.0 4 LYFE Give me a reason to dampen my Assault, CCP!
Toby Flenderson research lab 439	Posted - 2014.04.04 11:32:00 - [26] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: What is the point? If I invest to level five precision enhancement I need to fit three complex mods or I can't spot a lightly dampened scout. If I invest in level five dampening I need to fit too many mods (i.e. More than the one slot of my three that I can spare) to avoid being scanned. Range enhancement is a joke. What is the point in these EWAR skills when no matter what they do I can't get a sufficient bonus out of them? And why do people keep advocating them? If you want to counter a scout's main role it should take some effort. The thing about scanning scouts is that it's either a hit or miss, you either see them or you don't. This threshold need only be crossed and then the main appeal to the suit is countered. To nullify their investment into the "hard to see" suit, the opponent should also have to make a crucial investment in seeing them. If it means that much to you though, you could always use a better suit for the job. This could be another scout or a logi suit. People should prioritize these sorts of things when choosing a suit. I skilled into a caldari scout and run one shield extender and scanning modules in every other slot. This is the price I am willing to pay to scan the "invisible" scouts for me and my squad. It's worth it to me. People just need to ask themselves if it's worth it to them.
m621 zma Seraphim Initiative.. 106	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:01:00 - [27] - Quote Yan Darn wrote: Before 1.8 a fully skilled scout could go under regular proto scanners with a basic dampener - the benefits of upgrading that to a complex dampener? None. Zero. Zilch. The next step up (evading focused scanners) was only possible for proto gal scout (gal logi as well?) with 4 complex dampeners. LOL, before 1.8 ALL medium suits could avoid scans with 1 complex damp or 2 complex damps if someone brought a proto scanner
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 574	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:29:00 - [28] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Dust is pushing people towards a more tactical approach. Now more than ever its best to be in squad where you have guys fulfilling their roles to bring about overall squad combat effectiveness. Solo is fine but you miss out on key components that another might have that you need to fight. Dropsuits are complimenting other dropsuits. Why you see logi equipment bonus and such No, its not. Scouts got the **** buffed out of them and now it's either scout or sentinel 514. Medium frames have no way to compete because shotgun scouts that are now below advanced scanners without ANY SP INVESTMENT INTO DAMPENING are eating them alive. The cloak is way, way more powerful than intended and makes it near impossible for anything that isn't a gallente logi with 2 focused proto scans or a cal scout with 2-3 complex precision amps and 2 complex range amps to pick up another scout that has so much as a single damp and a cloak on. Just like YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED was an unfun state of being and should never have been allowed to happen, cloaking should not be a near permanent state of being - scouts need to be picked up by things other than proto scans. Well smart players squad like this: Cal scout Gal scout Gal LOGI 2assaulys Heavie Make a V like the mighty ducks H A L A S. S And that's how you play the game or Tank tank cal scout, minmatar LOGI tank tank lol My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
Duke Noobiam Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 54	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:36:00 - [29] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: What is the point? If I invest to level five precision enhancement I need to fit three complex mods or I can't spot a lightly dampened scout. If I invest in level five dampening I need to fit too many mods (i.e. More than the one slot of my three that I can spare) to avoid being scanned. Range enhancement is a joke. What is the point in these EWAR skills when no matter what they do I can't get a sufficient bonus out of them? And why do people keep advocating them? Well, the truth is that passive scanning is best at detecting suits that are the same size or larger. This means that as an assault, you have the following Ewar options (they are not exclusive and can be combined). 0. Use your Ewar passive skills to give you intel about other assaults, logis and heavies. 1. Run a scanner. 2 .Squad up with a scout (preferably a Caldari scout) and stay close to him. 3. Squad up with a logi that specializes in scanning. Don't think of your investment in these passive skills as a lost, rather think of them as a reason to maybe skill into a scout suit. How do you kill that which has no life?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1707	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:49:00 - [30] - Quote it would only work against non scouts or gallente logistic squads... Assaults can stand toe to toe with both the scouts and gallente logi's... With two equally skilled players. Assault would almost always win.. They are still the back bone to pushing objectives successfully in competitive skirmishes. Assault's only flaw right now is fitting is way to tight on the suit... They need to have 2-30ish more BASE CPU and 10-15 more base PG on the suits to allow them to fit competitively.. Right now Heavies can fully fit every module their hearts could ever want and STILL have fitting room left. Scouts (Beside the Minmatar scout's PG..) are the same we can fully fit a scout with fitting to spare... Logistics are the same now with the generous equipment fitting bonus... But Assault's struggle to fit almost Any fitting combination you would naturally goto.



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