DUST Search - Something about the Cal Scout...

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Lynn Beck wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

OP provides anecdotal evidence.
Another person counters with anecdotal evidence that contradicts OP's experiences as evidence that the conclusion was wrong.
OP cries logical fallacy against the person for relying on anecdotal evidence.

Pot, meet kettle.

I say something is wrong.

Idiot blueberry says "i Iz bad at calscout, therefor calscout iz balensd"
Then complains that i'm calling him out. Roll

You said "this is a problem because (personal experience)"
Another person said "no it isn't because (personal experience"
You responded with "your only argument is based on your own personal experience, so it's invalid" and demanded proof just like you... uhhh... DIDN'T PROVIDE EITHER.

My personal experience is that both Cal and Gal Scouts are pretty well balanced in direct confrontations, with GalScouts having the edge in CQC because of higher raw HP giving them the edge in a straight damage race, while CalScouts can duck in and out of cover in a ranged encounter more effectively thanks to superior regen stats.

When comparing skilled players with each suit, the one who managed to better play to the strengths of their suit is usually the winner. With player skill being equal, the situation decides the fight. Amarr Scouts I haven't seen enough of to judge, but Minmatar Scouts are less viable for direct combat and have their own bonuses instead, allowing for better disruptive tactics when getting behind enemy lines to hack quickly and disappear before any enemies can reach the objective.

My personal experience doesn't negate your own personal experience, or the personal experience of the guy who said you're wrong. Each perspective has just as much validity as the others. Each person's opinion and the experience that opinion is based on provides an alternative perspective on the matter. Personally, I believe you are probably wrong about the CalScout being more powerful than the other Scouts (possible exception of the Amarr), but my anecdotal evidence isn't magically better than yours just because I'm the one saying it instead of you.


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Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1007	Posted - 2014.04.04 06:51:00 - [1] - Quote Is innately wrong. Something to do with its' Hitbox, strafing %, or just simply its' fitting freedom. SOMETHING is OP about this. I ran a basic Caldari Light frame today, testing out the fits thag were killin me the most to figure out WHY AN HMG WITH 2 DMG MODS CANNOT KILL A CALSCOUT BEFORE HE SHOTGUNS ME FROM 15m AWAY. /rant end, now to be objective. In my min scout, i can't strafe 6m away from a heavy/Hmg combo and win. In my unbonused Caldari frame however, only Proto HMG's have a chance to kill me. I'm not exaggerating either. Mh-82's never killed me. duvole Ar's never killed me. ACR's never touched me. I had a tank of 380 or so shield, ran Bk-42(standard light frame) I consistently did better than my Advanced Minscout/Galscout or my proto MinCommando. CCP i'm not going to shout 'THIS IS OP!' But i want you to double check your numbers, please. Also can we have a confirmation the CalScout doesn't have a smaller hitbox than the Min? I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1007	Posted - 2014.04.04 06:57:00 - [2] - Quote Taeryn Frost wrote: I get killed in my cal scout all the time. Must mean the hitbox is fine. If you're an idiot that stands still or tries to tank a Hmg heavy in one go. Also using statements like 'i killed someone in a calscout/i die in calscouts' as testaments to how they're NOT inherently powerful is not a valid argument. I could say 'Lol scramblers aren't that good, i die in every fight i use tem in!' I could simply be standing still in a minscout, or not shooting at all just to prove some ridiculous point. When 1 caldari scout can mop the floor with 5-6 guys in a row, there's something to be double checking. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1007	Posted - 2014.04.04 06:58:00 - [3] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Also your sig is a sin. Thanks. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1007	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:08:00 - [4] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Taeryn Frost wrote: I get killed in my cal scout all the time. Must mean the hitbox is fine. If you're an idiot that stands still or tries to tank a Hmg heavy in one go. Also using statements like 'i killed someone in a calscout/i die in calscouts' as testaments to how they're NOT inherently powerful is not a valid argument. I could say 'Lol scramblers aren't that good, i die in every fight i use tem in!' I could simply be standing still in a minscout, or not shooting at all just to prove some ridiculous point. When 1 caldari scout can mop the floor with 5-6 guys in a row, there's something to be double checking. ...and your testimony is more valid, why? I'm not going to go right out and say something is OP. About it, or that 'This is broken, fix X!' As i don't know what X is. However i'm curious. How many fittings bugs did we have?(Lp ak.0 commando, with 3 weapons)(caldari and Amarr scouts having no skill requirements) They could have easily messed something up with the Calscouts numbers- Strafe % of walk speed, damage %(how much of Lw fire you take(tanks have this as like 14 or something)) I'm just asking CCP if everything is alrifht and bug free. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1007	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:10:00 - [5] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Taeryn Frost wrote: I get killed in my cal scout all the time. Must mean the hitbox is fine. If you're an idiot that stands still or tries to tank a Hmg heavy in one go. Also using statements like 'i killed someone in a calscout/i die in calscouts' as testaments to how they're NOT inherently powerful is not a valid argument. I could say 'Lol scramblers aren't that good, i die in every fight i use tem in!' I could simply be standing still in a minscout, or not shooting at all just to prove some ridiculous point. When 1 caldari scout can mop the floor with 5-6 guys in a row, there's something to be double checking. Is your evidence published in peer reviewed science journal? Not seeing much empirical evidence in your first post. Since when do i need a Phd in Neckbeard to state my opinion that 'Something is not right...'? Also who are you to state that you're correct in stating 'calscouts are fine, shaddap!' I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1007	Posted - 2014.04.04 07:16:00 - [6] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I havent seen any abberrant behavior in mine. Sounds like more player skill than anything wrong. See this is the thing that's making me curious, it's only to Level 1, and i have an easier time playing it than my Adv gal/min scouts. It just seems like SOMETHING isn't right- checked stats and compared to my Min, and there doesn't seem anything ridiculously wrong.(aside from the typical Caldari theme of 'it's caldari, so we have better everything shield related to your minmatar') I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1007	Posted - 2014.04.04 08:46:00 - [7] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I suspect something must be wrong with the hit detection on a strafing Caldari light. Its only a suspicion though. They are by far the hardest light suits to kill for me, and I use an anti-shield weapon (assault scrambler rifle on an Amarr commando). There might actually be nothing wrong with it, and there may be nothing that needs to be done with them, but it really feels like something is just off. EDIT: How does their strafe speed compare to the Minmatar light suits? I haven't run a strafe race with the Calscout, but it -feels- like it's not strafing at thr 95% it should. Feels more like a 98% or something. Again this is all my opinion, but no other scout gives me these problems. Even 900hp galscouts are possible to kill. Since when can a scout stand 20m away, strafe in a 2-3m wide area, and dodge 85-90% of my HMG's shots? He doesn't 'appear' to even move out of my crosshairs. Naturally though, because i can't kill something, means i'm a bad player. Just seems offset. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1007	Posted - 2014.04.04 08:48:00 - [8] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: OP provides anecdotal evidence. Another person counters with anecdotal evidence that contradicts OP's experiences as evidence that the conclusion was wrong. OP cries logical fallacy against the person for relying on anecdotal evidence. Pot, meet kettle. I say something is wrong. Idiot blueberry says "i Iz bad at calscout, therefor calscout iz balensd" Then complains that i'm calling him out. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1012	Posted - 2014.04.04 18:50:00 - [9] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Taeryn Frost wrote: I get killed in my cal scout all the time. Must mean the hitbox is fine. If you're an idiot that stands still or tries to tank a Hmg heavy in one go. Also using statements like 'i killed someone in a calscout/i die in calscouts' as testaments to how they're NOT inherently powerful is not a valid argument. I could say 'Lol scramblers aren't that good, i die in every fight i use tem in!' I could simply be standing still in a minscout, or not shooting at all just to prove some ridiculous point. When 1 caldari scout can mop the floor with 5-6 guys in a row, there's something to be double checking. Well, shields do receive a 10% bonus against HMGs (via the HMG's 10% penalty against shields), so it's possible that has something to do with it. Also, if it was an Amarr or Gallente sentinel, it would receive neither an armor nor shield bonus to hybrid - blaster weapons, further tipping the scales. In any case, would it be acceptable for 1 Gal scout to mop the floor with 5 - 6 guys in a row? Or for a Minnie assault? Or an Amarr comando? That is, are you suggesting that only certain suits should be capable of killing more than a handful of reds in a row? No, not unless i was in proto and they're all in militia. But this is me in a cal scout, dropping Adv after Adv. Just seems unbalance how a Caldari scout is better at dodging and weaving than my Min scout. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1013	Posted - 2014.04.04 19:58:00 - [10] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: When 1 caldari scout can mop the floor with 5-6 guys in a row, there's something to be double checking. I can do this in my caldari assault suit, therefore according to your logic my suit is OP correct? Cat Merc wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cal scouts are pretty much the ultimate combat suit. Passive scanning so you can detect everyone? Check AMAZING regeneration? Check High speed? Check Fast strafing? Check etc'. The Gal Scout may have the highest HP ceiling, but the plates reduce speed, and Cal scout has a regen the Gal scout can never achieve. The only thing the gal scout has in favor over the other suits is one really useful skill bonus and one partly and the repair. The highest amount of HP can still achieve the Amarr scout... Compared to the cal scout the suit is rather meh, buts its funny that everyone is complaining about the gal scout especially when they are saying he has the highest eHP...this shows the lack of game knowledge these folks have. The Cal scout is amazing and from my experience the most used scout suit so far Honestly, for SCOUTING, Gal scout is awesome. But for combat, nothing beats the Cal Scout. The Gallente Scout and a coordinated heavy are direct Cal Scout counters TBH. Requiring 2 people to take down 1 person. That is imbalanced. Thng is i have 0 problems killibg Galscouts, i have 0 problems killin heavies(unless thry're proto, but that's them using proto) Also i'm happy to hear you use Calassault. It's noce hearin people use medframes again. However medframes don't strafe as fast, so i personally never have problems killing them. If you outstrafe scouts in a heavy, or whatever, then you have skill. But when a Calscout can dance in the same 2foot wide area dodging 95% of bullets simply because thr server can't track him, there's a problem.(by that logic, the Minmatar scout should be better at this, but from my experience, isn't.) I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?

Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1013	Posted - 2014.04.04 20:02:00 - [11] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: Out of curiosity how are you fitting each suit? Also are you focusing on a specific racial heavy/HMG combo? And finally are you finding the STD cal scout outperforming you ADV min scout against other types of suits and in other types of activities? My Scouts typicaly have 1 HP mod(ferroscale for gal, reactive/extender for min) The rest being Scan mods. When i tested the Calscout, i stacked Shield mods, i tried another with a damge mod and 2 shields. When i went to compare the 2, i stacked extenders on 3 highs(basic cal, adv min) The Caldari oddly took less damage. Whether this is because i'm more accustomed to Min assault speed(which is closest to Calscout) or because there's something innately wrong, has yet to be determined. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1014	Posted - 2014.04.04 21:09:00 - [12] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: OP provides anecdotal evidence. Another person counters with anecdotal evidence that contradicts OP's experiences as evidence that the conclusion was wrong. OP cries logical fallacy against the person for relying on anecdotal evidence. Pot, meet kettle. I say something is wrong. Idiot blueberry says "i Iz bad at calscout, therefor calscout iz balensd" Then complains that i'm calling him out. You said "this is a problem because (personal experience)" Another person said "no it isn't because (personal experience" You responded with "your only argument is based on your own personal experience, so it's invalid" and demanded proof just like you... uhhh... DIDN'T PROVIDE EITHER. My personal experience is that both Cal and Gal Scouts are pretty well balanced in direct confrontations, with GalScouts having the edge in CQC because of higher raw HP giving them the edge in a straight damage race, while CalScouts can duck in and out of cover in a ranged encounter more effectively thanks to superior regen stats. When comparing skilled players with each suit, the one who managed to better play to the strengths of their suit is usually the winner. With player skill being equal, the situation decides the fight. Amarr Scouts I haven't seen enough of to judge, but Minmatar Scouts are less viable for direct combat and have their own bonuses instead, allowing for better disruptive tactics when getting behind enemy lines to hack quickly and disappear before any enemies can reach the objective. My personal experience doesn't negate your own personal experience, or the personal experience of the guy who said you're wrong. Each perspective has just as much validity as the others. Each person's opinion and the experience that opinion is based on provides an alternative perspective on the matter. Personally, I believe you are probably wrong about the CalScout being more powerful than the other Scouts (possible exception of the Amarr), but my anecdotal evidence isn't magically better than yours just because I'm the one saying it instead of you. While i'm not going to say you're wring, i will however say while your experiences are contradictory to mine, i don't see tem as wrong. The Caldari scouts you go against might not be as skiled(different timezone, lack of Latency because you're European(?) or that you are in an area where there's very high population density(less distance between people, less latency) Meanwhilr the Calscouts i go against might be Nyains abusing their 1.3+ second latency to become invulnerable. However i will also state that every Calscout i fight against is running a 20+/-2 K/d. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1015	Posted - 2014.04.04 22:27:00 - [13] - Quote I was simply stating a possible explanation. It COULD be as simple as time zone differences, you being in NZ (that's around Sweden right? Apologies if i'm an idiot) You could be located much closer to the server than I, who am in USA, Kentucky.(we have some pretty bad Latency) However it could also be your Ps3 model, having no problems with dust(i frequently get problems, as my BD player is broken and refuses to lemme install games correctly for some reason) Originally this post was to ask if others had the same problems with CalScouts, and to ask/plead CCP to double check the hidden numbers on Calscout(strafe % being one among many that we don't get to see) When they release a suit, they don't check a box thatsays "immune to Av locking" They set a value to the option "lockable by Swarm Launchers? 0= false 1= true" Same with Strafe %, it's manually applied to each suit. This is most easily remembered in the Mlt Nitrous in 1.7, they added a 0 to the bonus. They could've easily put a 96%(6 being the key which is pressed for %) instead of 95% strafe. That would be unfairly advantageous. However i'm not sure of this as i can't test this. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1015	Posted - 2014.04.05 07:55:00 - [14] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Taeryn Frost wrote: I get killed in my cal scout all the time. Must mean the hitbox is fine. If you're an idiot that stands still or tries to tank a Hmg heavy in one go. Also using statements like 'i killed someone in a calscout/i die in calscouts' as testaments to how they're NOT inherently powerful is not a valid argument. I could say 'Lol scramblers aren't that good, i die in every fight i use tem in!' I could simply be standing still in a minscout, or not shooting at all just to prove some ridiculous point. When 1 caldari scout can mop the floor with 5-6 guys in a row, there's something to be double checking. What if the guys a vet with both weapons prof5 and Gal scouts are just as bad. And prove to yourself what that 'SOMETHINGS WRONG" is before you come to the forums with a complaint (personal experience). Apologies then that i didn't consult the kingly Neckbeards then before posting. Maybe it's your fault for not reading the OP and reading that 'something feels off, or it's just me' Also, Calscout with maxed shield skills gets somewhere around 350-380 shield , just takes 90% of your Fitting and all your highs.(all 3 extenders) I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1015	Posted - 2014.04.05 08:00:00 - [15] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Taeryn Frost wrote: I get killed in my cal scout all the time. Must mean the hitbox is fine. If you're an idiot that stands still or tries to tank a Hmg heavy in one go. Also using statements like 'i killed someone in a calscout/i die in calscouts' as testaments to how they're NOT inherently powerful is not a valid argument. I could say 'Lol scramblers aren't that good, i die in every fight i use tem in!' I could simply be standing still in a minscout, or not shooting at all just to prove some ridiculous point. When 1 caldari scout can mop the floor with 5-6 guys in a row, there's something to be double checking. What if the guys a vet with both weapons prof5 and Gal scouts are just as bad. And prove to yourself what that 'SOMETHINGS WRONG" is before you come to the forums with a complaint (personal experience). Ok. So now EVERY caldari scout i come across has a MAXED build, are all 95% better at aiming than me(plausible, but i don't believe it) AND have all mastered thr strafe to the point it breaks the Hit Detection? Right. I'll believe that when EVERY minmatar sentinel player is 'gud' same with Minscouts. When EVERY person that runs something and dominates ALL have maxed builds, AND are professional gamers, then RESPECT.(not your ghetto-ass misspelling of Respec, fyi) Until then, when a guy can dodge 95% of my shots by simply being a calscout, it's rhe same as Nyain San or AE spamming prototype Gallogis with Ion cannon Maddies. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1018	Posted - 2014.04.05 17:52:00 - [16] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I die all the time to heavies, in fact I can't even kill them. Mh-82 kills me in seconds. I think the reason you did so well was because you were using the combat rifle, you can pretty much melt anything with that gun so it might seem the suit is op, but I assure you its the combat rifle. Trying running it with a magsec and a bolt pistol, its much harder. I also used twin bolt pistols... Not much different I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1034	Posted - 2014.04.07 17:51:00 - [17] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I havent seen any abberrant behavior in mine. Sounds like more player skill than anything wrong. See this is the thing that's making me curious, it's only to Level 1, and i have an easier time playing it than my Adv gal/min scouts. It just seems like SOMETHING isn't right- checked stats and compared to my Min, and there doesn't seem anything ridiculously wrong.(aside from the typical Caldari theme of 'it's caldari, so we have better everything shield related to your minmatar') It can see better than anyone else !!!! HOw the hell is it the same as a Min scout ?! Basic frame. Also i was comparing things like base HP, strafing speed(min hould win here) and shield HPs. Sometimes ya just feel like surfin
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1611	Posted - 2014.05.01 19:06:00 - [18] - Quote Who the hell necro'd this thread? I'm not saying anybody's info is wrong, whilr mine isn't. I AM saying, that the caldari scout seems to have an innate shield resistance (of 70% or more) to Projectile and Explosive while moving. Example: imm in a caldari light frame- C-1, with 2 complex shield extenders leading to 308 shield, 87 armor. I get hit by Mlt Ar and take 8 points of damage. In CQC. 8. Immediately afterwards, militia locus lands by my feet(might have been M-1, but imm guessing it's basic) Does 34 damage. Even after fighting a Mlt AR AND a locus nade, i still have 270 shield. HMG seems to have an effect on me, but less so than my Mk.0 scout with 343 shield. My calscout can effectively TANK HMG fire. This isn't because of strafe- as the Minja moves MUCH faster, thus logic would dictate that i can strafe easier with it. Another funny discrepancy- Six Kin ACR with prof 3(irrelevant for shield) and Mincommando 5, against Basi Calscout standing 100% still. Literally he was calling a car in. Unload ACR into back from 3m, scout finishes calling car and turns around 1-hitting my commando with a Crg-3 shotgun. Ammo used at time of death 34(half clip) estimated damage dealt: 782(not counting Commando 5) Enemy HP at time of death: 152(HP before batle was 162) He TOOK damage. He took less than 1 bullet worth of ACR, out of a half clip. If hit detection was wonky, he wouldn't have taken 30% of a single bullet. It would have been 1 full bullet +. If somebody wants to give a LolTheory as to how THAT is balanced, then please. Tell me. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!