DUST Search - General Beef w/ Dust 514 CCP Dev Team

Michael Arck wrote:

TrueXer0z wrote:

Michael Arck wrote:

Sounds like you feel entitled.

Funny how people played COD competitively for years...with its poor hit detection. BF4 is a complete mess. And this game is far from a completed product.

I can understand some problems or difference of view when discussing the developers, but it seems this attitude of "I'm a gamer and you're made to serve me" is just downright wrong.

It is up to the community to constructively offer their opinions instead of empty threats of "I would fire you if I ran the company". That's just pure immaturity, really.

I am far from entitled to anything. But, the players however are entitled. They are the ones spending their time and money supporting this game. I feel they defiantly are entitled to a complete and finished product that has been fully bug tested.

But aren't you're a player? So what are you saying essentially? You're entitled to have a perfect game and other games in the FPS genre has gotten it right without any hiccups for their release? That people played games that were not severely broken (i.e. Call of Duty hit detection which was a joke)?

No they can't possibly see all the bugs...that's where we come in. What was the reason that Respawn encouraged players to come to open beta? To spam the heck out of the servers to test the game's merits. We are the testers of this game. We find the bugs and we bring it to their attention. A small team can't possibly find all that we find.

Listen, I'm not saying they are perfect or some great god of developing company. But the way the community handles this situation and the things they say are just downright obnoxious, oblivious and reeks of immaturity.

They told us this project wasn't going to be a wham bam, thank you ma'am thing. They told us they will be improving it over time. They showed us a concept of where they would like to be. They are building towards that, not at the speed you or I would like, but with their dedication and our involvement, the game will get there.

It's about having a mature understanding of these things instead of just throwing a fit, posting empty threats as if that would generate a genuine response (lord knows if I was a dev, I couldn't visit these forums and read a plethora of bratty self entitled posts) and acting as if the game stopped growing on its "release" date.

If we are going to point at the devs, maybe we need to point at the community too.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 298	Posted - 2014.04.04 01:03:00 - [1] - Quote Now this is a generalized statement not meant to point out anyone in particular. I remember a few months back that I started a thread about the conduct that the dev team here in dust 514 were displaying was down right appalling. On my return to the game in 1.8 I find that this trend has continued. It is a very sad thing that my hopes were not high but at a point where I expected better. Now, don't get me wrong. I love the game. The community is great. However the fundamental flaws of this game have not only been widely apparent, but consistent to a level that is beyond unacceptable. Yet, the coin has two sides. Our community even though outraged and expressed their concerns both legitimately and not so legitimately have allowed this type of conduct to continue. CCP, we may expect a lot from you. Considering the promises that were made before the game released and the slow progress of content that has still yet to be delivered upon. It is understandable that in times of change we need to be considerate to complex designs of a corporation most of us have no true understanding of. However, that doesn't excuse the quality of product you have laid before us. I don't feel I need to refer to the long list of patches, builds, fixes, or changes made to the game in the time since release specifically. The experience and volume of incoming new players is a testament to the poor quality of each. You fail time and time again to address some of the most flawed aspects of the game while making radical changes to others without proper testing. Then you take that untested product and present it to a very loyal community expecting that just because we are used to the continued betrayal of our trust it is ok. When the community expects and accepts the fact that such product is presented as finished and upgraded from the current state of this game it is sad. Unfortunately, it is already the case. How can you expect to be considered a competitive FPS type game if the product you push is unfinished and untested? How do you expect the new player community to react to how the game has no release from veteran players being able to manhandle them? Be very glad I do not run the DUST 514 department of CCP. There would be very many of you without jobs. Like I said before, there are literally thousands of young focused programers that are hungry for a chance to be a part of this game's advancement. Any of you who are familiar with the eve community should know that what the Dust community endures would be met with extreme hostility both on the forums and in game fronts. I wish our player base would use them as an example at times. Not, that this thread will change anything or will help band our players together to act upon what is a terrible series of consistent neglect, but I needed to vent a bit. Director, Dust University
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 299	Posted - 2014.04.04 01:21:00 - [2] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Sounds like you feel entitled. Funny how people played COD competitively for years...with its poor hit detection. BF4 is a complete mess. And this game is far from a completed product. I can understand some problems or difference of view when discussing the developers, but it seems this attitude of "I'm a gamer and you're made to serve me" is just downright wrong. It is up to the community to constructively offer their opinions instead of empty threats of "I would fire you if I ran the company". That's just pure immaturity, really. I am far from entitled to anything. But, the players however are entitled. They are the ones spending their time and money supporting this game. I feel they defiantly are entitled to a complete and finished product that has been fully bug tested. Oh, and be sure to quote properly. The statement was: "Be very glad I do not run the DUST 514 department of CCP. There would be very many of you without jobs." People don't like to hear it, but it is a very real thing in a lot of professions. Director, Dust University
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 301	Posted - 2014.04.04 01:32:00 - [3] - Quote Castor Crave wrote: Hey True, how's life? Good to have you back. Don't blame the programers though, they are not the ones responsible for what happened. Did you know that CCP already burned through two EPs for DUST 514? Those are the guys in charge of the project. The third one got hired some time last year, the first time we will hear from him will be at Fanfest where he will reveal what direction the game will take within the next 3-12 months. Throw your rotten fruits at that guy if you must, but don't forget to keep one or two for SoxFour Life is good! I am glad to be back. Like I said in the post. "It is understandable that in times of change we need to be considerate to complex designs of a corporation most of us have no true understanding of." But, I did expect more when it comes to a supposedly finished product. I.E. 1.8 - Also, this isn't something that JUST happened this ONCE. It has been consistent for the entirety of the games existence. Director, Dust University
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 301	Posted - 2014.04.04 01:35:00 - [4] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: TrueXer0z wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Sounds like you feel entitled. Funny how people played COD competitively for years...with its poor hit detection. BF4 is a complete mess. And this game is far from a completed product. I can understand some problems or difference of view when discussing the developers, but it seems this attitude of "I'm a gamer and you're made to serve me" is just downright wrong. It is up to the community to constructively offer their opinions instead of empty threats of "I would fire you if I ran the company". That's just pure immaturity, really. I am far from entitled to anything. But, the players however are entitled. They are the ones spending their time and money supporting this game. I feel they defiantly are entitled to a complete and finished product that has been fully bug tested. But aren't you're a player? So what are you saying essentially? You're entitled to have a perfect game and other games in the FPS genre has gotten it right without any hiccups for their release? That people played games that were not severely broken (i.e. Call of Duty hit detection which was a joke)? No they can't possibly see all the bugs...that's where we come in. What was the reason that Respawn encouraged players to come to open beta? To spam the heck out of the servers to test the game's merits. We are the testers of this game. We find the bugs and we bring it to their attention. A small team can't possibly find all that we find. Listen, I'm not saying they are perfect or some great god of developing company. But the way the community handles this situation and the things they say are just downright obnoxious, oblivious and reeks of immaturity. They told us this project wasn't going to be a wham bam, thank you ma'am thing. They told us they will be improving it over time. They showed us a concept of where they would like to be. They are building towards that, not at the speed you or I would like, but with their dedication and our involvement, the game will get there. It's about having a mature understanding of these things instead of just throwing a fit, posting empty threats as if that would generate a genuine response (lord knows if I was a dev, I couldn't visit these forums and read a plethora of bratty self entitled posts) and acting as if the game stopped growing on its "release" date. If we are going to point at the devs, maybe we need to point at the community too. I did point out the community. I said that it is our own faults that we accept the type of product we have been given. Once again, I would not even remotely be at the point of posting something like this if it wasn't a consistent thing since the game's inception. Director, Dust University
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 302	Posted - 2014.04.04 02:06:00 - [5] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Dude, seriously? I've been playing this game for two years now. I understand the frustrations, but in any game where there are major content updates coming in expect bugs. It's almost impossible to avoid. No as far as the interaction with the community is concerned things have been improved immensely. We know about changes and additions long before they are implemented, and our feedback is noted. While there is much room for improvement, we are talking about real human beings with families. Blatantly saying "You shouldn't have a job" is a d1ck move. I am a jerk, there is not questioning or debating that. Sorry I don't sugar coat my statements. Yes, the game has improved. Yes, the delivery of information has also been improved. But, those changes came over time an were fought for by our community. I did say I loved the game. I did say I understand that change effects productivity. But, it doesn't excuse the initial delivery of a product. It is because we accept the fact that flawed product is pushed that it has been a common place within the development in this game. The sooner the community starts to not except such things the sooner it will cease or at least come to a more acceptable level. When a community becomes accustomed to things of this nature and except it is when those things continue to exist. Don't like what I have to say, too bad. Director, Dust University
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 309	Posted - 2014.04.08 18:31:00 - [6] - Quote I am very glad this post was unlocked. The content that I wrote may be harsh, but it is what I see. It does not point out or attack any individual specifically. Like I stated above, I don't know everything that is going on internally, but something needs to change and drastically. Everyone involved in this game wants it to be successful. There are thousands of people who love this game, but I feel that it could be tens of thousands if we can just get on the right track. CCP Dust 514 team. You have disappointed me more then once. You turned me into a lier. While I advocated to new hundreds of new players each and every night. I found a blind belief that you guys would see it through. There is no questioning that there have been major improvements to the game. But, those things have come at a cost. It is hard for me to run a lecture everyday when the idea of dramatic changes to game mechanics can take place so often. It is difficult for me to advocate the progress of the game to new players who are mercilessly destroyed in public matches that you have their interests in mind. I now believe whole heartedly that the majority of players still clinging to this game are people who may like the game, but are more time and money invested over playing the game for its enjoyability. Don't be content with the unfinished and untested content that spills forth from CCP's half cocked ideas. Demand quality product. In Eve Online they rioted in every major market for days and days over things like this. We as a community have the ability to do things like this. That is what makes CCP a great company. Oh and CCP Dust 514 team. No amount of pretty CGI cut scenes or highly graphic power point presentations at fan fest will convince me proper change is coming soon tm. The community deserves results. Not promises in any form. Director, Dust University
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 320	Posted - 2014.04.09 22:49:00 - [7] - Quote When we push for change, change happens. What I see in a lot of post are people making excuses for a company they don't know much about. Not saying I know anything myself. However the product speaks for itself. While many suggestions are made, most are ignored. How long have we as a community called out for something only to have a generalized response regarding the subject matter that neither answers our questions or actually indicates some sort of real acknowledgment of our concerns. I am a very loyal consumer and don't plan on pulling my money away from the CCP company as a whole. I wouldn't ask anyone else to do so either. They have created a great concept and allowed us to experience those ideas. No question that creating this type of project takes a lot of work, time, and effort on the part of CCP, but there are steps that are clearly not being taken to ensure that it is a quality product. Not to deflect this thread off topic, but plain and simple. the NPE is just ridiculously under developed and as of this moment there has been no real progress on that front. In fact it has regressed more then ever. New players are what not only keep a game like this alive, but enrich the community. AND, NO CCP, just because there is increasing account creations or character creations does not mean those are new players. New player retention is almost non existent. I myself have only been back for a week or so from a long break and have focused on interaction with new players. The frustration and very limited understanding of the game these players have to endure is completely unacceptable. All you veterans may be enjoying the fact you can stomp these new players in PUBS and those of you who have dominated PC, yes it is part of the game and yes you are exposing a huge flaw in the way CCP developed that aspect of the game. But, in reality you are hurting this game more and more by doing so. You do not allow new players to experience what this game has to really offer. Limited as it may be. Proto squads dominate PUBs and FW, not allowing new players to properly compete either. It is funny and fun, no doubt, but you are severely hurting the growth of our community. In short, CCP you are pushing unfinished and untested product. You are getting away with it for now. It won't last forever. Don't like what I said about your jobs? Well, you might want to take it seriously, because in any work place anywhere around the world, you don't get the job done. Your company WILL find someone else to do it. It is reality. To the community, there are some of you out there advocating for a better future in this game. I applaud that action. We need more people willing to voice their opinions in constructive ways. However, the mentality that these flaws are acceptable is an incorrect one. Don't make excuses for a company that makes tons of money from your contributions. Demand a better future for this game, our community and we may be able to get on the right track if we work together and focus on the tasks at hand. We the community are as much a part of this game's development as the Devs are. Military Training Director, Dust University Dennie Fleetfoot for CPM1
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 324	Posted - 2014.04.10 00:03:00 - [8] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: TrueXer0z wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Sounds like you feel entitled. Funny how people played COD competitively for years...with its poor hit detection. BF4 is a complete mess. And this game is far from a completed product. I can understand some problems or difference of view when discussing the developers, but it seems this attitude of "I'm a gamer and you're made to serve me" is just downright wrong. It is up to the community to constructively offer their opinions instead of empty threats of "I would fire you if I ran the company". That's just pure immaturity, really. I am far from entitled to anything. But, the players however are entitled. They are the ones spending their time and money supporting this game. I feel they defiantly are entitled to a complete and finished product that has been fully bug tested. Oh, and be sure to quote properly. The statement was: "Be very glad I do not run the DUST 514 department of CCP. There would be very many of you without jobs." People don't like to hear it, but it is a very real thing in a lot of professions. For most games, I'd agree with you, but this game is completely free to play. Any money you spend is an attempt to speed up the process of getting better, that's all Yes it is free to play, but I have put a lot more money into this game then any other FPS game in existence. Not to mention I bought a PS3 and use it specifically for this game alone. So, considering that I have paid quiet a bit for this game. I am sure there are many others who have done so as well. So the argument that this is a FTP game is irreverent. Not to put it in a mean way, sorry if the reply came off that way. Oh, and I do plan to spend more money on the game, because I support CCP. I just don't approve of poor product creation and companies trying to push it as quality product. Military Training Director, Dust University Dennie Fleetfoot for CPM1
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 380	Posted - 2014.04.14 00:38:00 - [9] - Quote This is just me, but, CCP Dust514 seems to be full of excuses and vague responses concerning game development, bugs and fundamental issues. There are also a lot of loyalist that defend them at every turn. I myself am a loyal customer to CCP, but that doesn't excuse them from their blatant mismanagement of the Dust 514 department. A friend of mine retorted with: "Things are changing in CCP Shanghai. They just got a new EP, and from what I understand they are working on a new development course that focuses on realistic goals for the game." This, in my opinion is complete crap! The "NEW" EP has been in charge for months now. As much as I snipe on developers and the community it doesn't compare to my contempt for the management team of Dust 514. CCP Rogue has kept quiet almost the entire time since he has taken his position. We blame Devs for poor content release, but it is really the management who allow such poor product to be released in the first place. 1.8's bugs, flaws, and poor quality should have been bug tested, refined, and cleared before ever being released. That release was approved by the management team of the Dust 514 Dev department. 1.8 is your introduction to us. Not a very good start. You good sirs should take full responsibility for the mistakes made in this latest patch. Instead of allowing us to fry these Devs all day. Keep in mind, the new content is not my issue. Seeing new things added to the game is great. Seeing the long list of problems is what I see as the real issues. A good leader takes care of his crew. No matter how much the other Devs defend you or how much loyalists gravel at your feet; first impressions are everything. Director, Dust University *~Kevall Longstride for CPM1~*