I'm a cal heavy. I thoroughly enjoy the cloak. it does bring me some rage from time to time but that is just frustration that j get from playing this game. the reason so much complaints about cloaks exist is because it exacerbates the underlying problem. Scouts have the speed, hp, and dps. so here is my suggestion to fix the real problem. apply across the board the faster you move the wider the reticle. that way speed tanking is still viable but the scout can't apply dps as effectively. this reduces the effectiveness of strafe dancing around. alternatively CCP could just fix hit detection on fast moving targets and then drop auto aim assist effectiveness.

additionally suits that are lighter should be affected by stacking plates exponentially. suits intended to have armor tanking like heavy suits are less affected as they were designed to take extra plate and thus are less affected by extra weight.

but honestly my biggest point is that cloak is not the problem at the very least. maybe my ideas aren't the solution I can accept that but jeez fix the base issue not the surface problem.

I do not think your sig means what you think it means.

I'm a cal heavy. I thoroughly enjoy the cloak. it does bring me some rage from time to time but that is just frustration that j get from playing this game. the reason so much complaints about cloaks exist is because it exacerbates the underlying problem. Scouts have the speed, hp, and dps. so here is my suggestion to fix the real problem. apply across the board the faster you move the wider the reticle. that way speed tanking is still viable but the scout can't apply dps as effectively. this reduces the effectiveness of strafe dancing around. alternatively CCP could just fix hit detection on fast moving targets and then drop auto aim assist effectiveness.

additionally suits that are lighter should be affected by stacking plates exponentially. suits intended to have armor tanking like heavy suits are less affected as they were designed to take extra plate and thus are less affected by extra weight.

but honestly my biggest point is that cloak is not the problem at the very least. maybe my ideas aren't the solution I can accept that but jeez fix the base issue not the surface problem.

In general, I think this isn't too bad an idea.

Make it some sort of gradual cooldown after sprinting, or based on absolute speed. personally, I like the idea of an accuracy penalty that builds as you sprint and then reduces as you stop sprinting/running.

There is currently a gradual cooldown after sprinting--it's your stamina recovery time.

The accuracy penalty is a bad idea, since what you're complaining about isn't relevant to proper scouts, ie, stealth/covops scouts. Nova knifers, pistoleros, and shotgunners are usually posted up right behind their target, standing still, before they strike. At least, I know this is usually the case when I roll my radar-invisible G/1 scout.

What you're complaining about is scouts outcompeting frontline suits at their own game. I agree that this is a problem, and it can be fixed by buffing all assault suits. So far, I haven't heard too many gripes about scout/heavy balance, which in my experience with 1.8, is great.

What you're complaining about.

You have some very valid points! Throw a 150 lb rucksack on a 130lb scrawny kid, and he's going to struggle to stand. Throw that same rucksack on an Army Ranger, and while affected, he is still an effective soldier.

Another way to visualize the underlying problems with the system is to examine falling damage. Fall damage is calculated as a flat rate based on the height of the fall. So all suits falling from the same height will take the same damage. But why? A scout suit is light and designed with mobility in mind (reinforced leg servos and impact absorbing supports). So in theory, a scout suit should take little to no damage from falls. Meanwhile, a heavy suit is designed to accommodate the extra armor and shield reinforcement. A brick tanked heavy should take increased damage from falls due to it's extra mass.

Because of the underlying problems with the system, a scout suit might not survive a 10ft fall, while a heavy can jump 200m from the MCC and not even deplete it's shields.

A light frame is designed for speed and ewar, so it should have decreased penalties for using speed modules and ewar modules, while experiencing increased penalties for armor plates and shield extenders. It just makes sense that a frame built for mobility and sensors would be exponentially affected by bulky plates and extenders.

Meanwhile, a heavy suit already designed to accommodate plates and extenders would suffer less speed penalties for adding more plates.

The 6 at STD, 7 at ADV, 8 at PRO mod slot plan would make mediums competitive, & slayer brick-tanked scouts won't be able to out-tank and outperform medium frames at their own jobs. There is no need to nerf scouts, simply raise mod slot count on medium suits and the brick-tanked scouts won't be an issue. This thread was created before the brick-tanked scout problem, but I strongly believe my proposed slot layout solution for mediums will solve the issue. Read on, I will explain.




There are big problems with the medium frame slot layouts that need to be addressed. "Too long; didn't read" (TL;DR) version on post 2 (click here).



Slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly, just right now brick-tank scouts are bigger issue.

Logis sacrifice sidearms, mobility, & base HP in exchange for for 2-3 more equipment (equip) slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equip slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance.

- At standard (STD) tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module (mod) slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts.
- Advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior mod slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts.
- Prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also.

Summary: logis underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV, & all OP at PRO.

No reason for the Caldari (Cal) logi only having 2 equip at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for the sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP even compared to the other UP STD logis.

There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD).

Am assault has less mod slots than other assaults. Yes it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari and Gallente assault, a small advantage already countered by being the slowest assault. It should be noted that the Am scout, Am sentinel, & Am commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Am suits aren't forced to give up a slot; they shouldn't have to give up a slot, and neither should the Am assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss. This problem makes the Am assault suffer the most from the brick-tanked scout problem, since the Am scout has more mod slots at STD-ADV than the assault, and same mod slot count at PRO; this allows the Am scout to surpass the Am assault in HP, while being faster, having a 2nd equip, stealthier, etc.

Part 1: assault & logi

Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).

Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.

Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:

Assault & logi STD (high/low)
Am: 2/4
Ga: 2/4
Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi)
Min: 3/3

Assault & logi ADV
Am: 2/5
Ga: 3/4
Ca: 5/2
Min: 4/3

Assault & logi PRO
Am: 3/5
Ga: 3/5
Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi)
Min: 4/4

[ REMOVED BASIC MEDIUM STUFF TO SAVE SPACE ]

Obviously PG/CPU should be tweaked

OP idea reminds me of Borderlands, where you sacrifice accuracy for mobility. This is a good balancing thing. Make it so if you are strafing like a mad man and firing from the hip your will miss way more. You want your accuracy back? Aim down the sights, you know, like how the weapon was designed, not like Rambo shooting from his waist line. I'm posting from my ps3, so it would be too painful to try to get a link from Boarderlands, but just do a quick search so you can see for yourself.

As far as speed affecting aim, I would prefer to address the underlying problems with the movement system. Which is that the Dust movement model does not account for limitations in human movement (even if you try to account for with dropsuit technology)

Humans are designed to move forward. Forward movement is our most natural and fluid of all movement directions. It is also the direction we can move the fastest with the least amount of impact on the rest of our automation (i.e. arm and head movement) Aiming and shooting while moving forward should be the fastest, smoothes, most accurate form of movement.

Backward movement is very limited when compared to forward movement. We can't do it as fast, and when we try to move quickly, we are forced to use our arms and posture in order to maintain our balance. Backwards movement should be jerkier, slow (if trying to shoot) and should render shooting nearly impossible if trying to backwards sprint with a rifle, or very inaccurate if using a sidearm. Currently in Dust, backwards movement is as fast as a forward sprint. (try knifing a guy who is backpedaling and you will see what I mean), and does not introduce any special penalty to aiming or hipfire spread.

Sideways movement is our interesting dilemma. Humans can move sideways in a number of ways, some of which are more conducive to gunplay than others. Because we can rotate our torso on our legs, diagonal movement is all but exactly similar to forward movement (that is where forward movement is equal to or greater than sideways movement). However, once sideways movement exceeds forward movement, our bodies begin to have some serious limitations and we are forced to slow down significantly. While shooting there are four basic side-to-side movements; the step-together-step, the step-cross-step, the leap, and the rotated turret (wherein your legs are moving forward, but your torso is rotated 90' to the side. Because of these limitations, side-to-side movement should be slow, and introduce huge aiming penalties if done quickly or repeatedly.

tl;dr version
Forward and diagonal movement and shooting stays the same
Backwards movement is slowed down and large penalties to aim introduced if you sprint+move back (less if you use a sidearm)
Sideways movement is significantly slowed down and heavily aim penalized if you sprint+move to the side

To complement these changes, a robust and accurate cover system needs to be introduced. Meaning the ability to lean and peak around, over, and under cover.

Strafing and fast backpedaling are artifacts left over from early FPS games and should be eliminated in modern shooters (unless this is there niche, which I certainly hope isn't the goal of DUST)

I can play a scout suit to counter scouts and I have. and it feels wrong. I will continue to play my suits and get circle strafed to death... the reason I made this post was because I played 3 games in a row and 90% of the suits were scouts... to me that is a true game design problem and needs to be looked at

No, what I mean is a cooldown of the aiming malus. Please make an effort to read what was written. I'm not talking about a sprinting cooldown, nor is the OP.

The OP is talking about a malus applied to accuracy based on run speed. I was merely taking his idea and refining it to my tastes somewhat. So, I was presenting the concept of an aiming malus that builds up from sprinting (or possibly top speed) and slowly reduces after the sprint is over such that, after some time period, aiming is returned to normal accuracy.

Regarding your concept of "proper" scouts. **** off. Any suit can be anything the player wants. The OP's suggestion is good because it makes high speed players less capable of immediately having pinpoint accuracy as well. This would encourage interesting dynamics and diversity on the battlefield.

The Scout dropsuit is a lightweight suit optimized for enhanced mobility, multi-spectrum stealth, and heightened awareness. Augmented joint servo motors give every movement extra speed and flexibility, while integrated friction and impact dampening materials reduce the overall sound signature.

This high-tech suit is coated in adaptive camouflage, a thin layer of bio-hermatic membranes interwoven with microscopic optical sensors that control millions of individual pigment ferro-crystals. An integrated AI-53 "All Eyes" sensor system wraps around the inside of the helmet, which also includes a chemically scrubbed atmospheric filtration system.

When missions call for speed and stealth, situations in which heavily armored suits would be more of a burden than an advantage, a scout dropsuit is the best option. The enhanced mobility it provides makes up for its relatively low protection, and when combined with stealth technology modules, the scout suit is the obvious choice for infiltration, counter-espionage and assassination.

I'm a cal heavy. I thoroughly enjoy the cloak. it does bring me some rage from time to time but that is just frustration that j get from playing this game. the reason so much complaints about cloaks exist is because it exacerbates the underlying problem. Scouts have the speed, hp, and dps. so here is my suggestion to fix the real problem. apply across the board the faster you move the wider the reticle. that way speed tanking is still viable but the scout can't apply dps as effectively. this reduces the effectiveness of strafe dancing around. alternatively CCP could just fix hit detection on fast moving targets and then drop auto aim assist effectiveness.

additionally suits that are lighter should be affected by stacking plates exponentially. suits intended to have armor tanking like heavy suits are less affected as they were designed to take extra plate and thus are less affected by extra weight.

but honestly my biggest point is that cloak is not the problem at the very least. maybe my ideas aren't the solution I can accept that but jeez fix the base issue not the surface problem.

adjust in-game to all tactics, and you simply aren't. You're asking for a code-change. You cannot have it both ways.