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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1849
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Posted - 2014.04.03 08:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Original Text Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2013941#post2013941
Graphical Version: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Pqc0ScXKN7YUtkS3dBbzZzbVk/edit?usp=sharing
Or if you dislike Google Drive, here is the Photobucket version: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/leowen/media/PC2-Flowchart_zps38ca1874.jpg.html
Be sure to click to see the full version, otherwise it might be a little hard to see
Here is a conceptual design I did for an overhaul of the Planetary Conquest System. Please view the links at the top of this post.
This system is designed around the concept of resource management and balance. Corps must decide what the proper balance between factories are in order to properly defend the district but also pull a profit and support their EVE support. They must also manage their time and manpower as not to take too many districts and allow them to be overrun by Rogue Drones, making them both weak and vulnerable. This also opens countless opportunities for corps to hire each other for things such as Drone Scrubbing or Shipping Services.
It discourages singular groups from holding massive amounts of land and allows for newer corps to get a taste of PC without being completely locked out on every front. It also establishes a rudimentary industry and market system, allowing for corps to make money off of their districts without raw ISK injections into the economy.
Please remember that this is for conceptual purposes only and while we may not agree on everything, healthy and constructive criticism is expected.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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deezy dabest
CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY
290
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Original Text Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2013941#post2013941Graphical Version: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Pqc0ScXKN7YUtkS3dBbzZzbVk/edit?usp=sharingOr if you dislike Google Drive, here is the Photobucket version: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/leowen/media/PC2-Flowchart_zps38ca1874.jpg.htmlBe sure to click to see the full version, otherwise it might be a little hard to see Here is a conceptual design I did for an overhaul of the Planetary Conquest System. Please view the links at the top of this post. This system is designed around the concept of resource management and balance. Corps must decide what the proper balance between factories are in order to properly defend the district but also pull a profit and support their EVE support. They must also manage their time and manpower as not to take too many districts and allow them to be overrun by Rogue Drones, making them both weak and vulnerable. This also opens countless opportunities for corps to hire each other for things such as Drone Scrubbing or Shipping Services. It discourages singular groups from holding massive amounts of land and allows for newer corps to get a taste of PC without being completely locked out on every front. It also establishes a rudimentary industry and market system, allowing for corps to make money off of their districts without raw ISK injections into the economy. Please remember that this is for conceptual purposes only and while we may not agree on everything, healthy and constructive criticism is expected.
I only looked at the graphic version and it looked sick.
Very nice work on drawing out a full concept there, hopefully some ideas can be pulled from this.
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shade emry3
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
47
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
very well put together. |
deezy dabest
CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY
292
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
After deeper study:
Amazing concept, I just feel like that leaves quite a bit of numbers to be balanced. For this to work a few things would need to be simplified to be able to keep it fair as well as manageable for a newer corp who may not have the full concept down. |
Salviatino Maiano
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
122
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Really like the concept! We need some depth in PC like this, keep it up!
I'm right behind you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=29eS4dXgT58#t=36
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn
1114
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
My name is Alena Ventrallis, and this is my favorite thread on the forums.
+1, OP.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
Fixed link.
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Yagihige
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
733
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Love it.
em ta kool t'nod
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Patrick57
Amarr Empire
6621
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is what PC 2.0 will look like.
No
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21yrOld Knight
Pradox XVI Proficiency V.
634
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Where da hell are the red sprinkles!
Mike Ruan Said i was Dust Famous!
Did he just talk in #'s
Volunteer member of the Arkombine, but i don't want out.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
856
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Posted - 2014.04.03 17:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Solid idea, Pokey.
Looks like you've set up a method where neither EVE nor Dust require the other to actually do anything but they are incentivised to use each other and that looks like a healthy approach.
How do you envision this creating opportunities for smaller / mid-size corps and alliances vs what we have now?
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1868
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Posted - 2014.04.03 20:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Solid idea, Pokey.
Looks like you've set up a method where neither EVE nor Dust require the other to actually do anything but they are incentivised to use each other and that looks like a healthy approach.
How do you envision this creating opportunities for smaller / mid-size corps and alliances vs what we have now?
I believe this sort of system will open up additional opportunities within PC that do no necessarily require the holding of Districts. Because attackers obtain all of the resources in the captured District's armory, we could see smaller to mid sized corps attacking and taking a district, shipping all the stored materials off site, and then let the district be recaptured. These 'Raids' would give smaller skilled corps the ability to make PC profitable, even if they're unable to maintain and defend districts for long periods of time.
There is also the prospect of being hired to scrub infestations or transport goods, making PC more than just attacking and defending districts against other corps.
As CCP opens up new territory to control, it will be harder and hard for the existing PC Corps to maintain a stranglehold on the new areas, especially with the PvE Infestation element. As player counts increase, CCP can expand the amount of available space to accommodate that balance. I would like to see your average small corp of 20-30 people able to hold a least one district so they can be involved in PC.
However if it eventually comes to a point where there are not enough districts to service everyone and alliances start holding massive amounts of land, the system must make renting districts to other corps more profitable than the cost in time, effort, and ISK for an alliance to defend in the long run. If a situation like that occurs, smaller corps should be able to rent a district or two from an alliance and still make a decent profit maintaining and defending it themselves.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
857
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Posted - 2014.04.03 22:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Solid idea, Pokey.
Looks like you've set up a method where neither EVE nor Dust require the other to actually do anything but they are incentivised to use each other and that looks like a healthy approach.
How do you envision this creating opportunities for smaller / mid-size corps and alliances vs what we have now?
I believe this sort of system will open up additional opportunities within PC that do no necessarily require the holding of Districts. Because attackers obtain all of the resources in the captured District's armory, we could see smaller to mid sized corps attacking and taking a district, shipping all the stored materials off site, and then let the district be recaptured. These 'Raids' would give smaller skilled corps the ability to make PC profitable, even if they're unable to maintain and defend districts for long periods of time. There is also the prospect of being hired to scrub infestations or transport goods, making PC more than just attacking and defending districts against other corps. As CCP opens up new territory to control, it will be harder and hard for the existing PC Corps to maintain a stranglehold on the new areas, especially with the PvE Infestation element. As player counts increase, CCP can expand the amount of available space to accommodate that balance. I would like to see your average small corp of 20-30 people able to hold a least one district so they can be involved in PC. However if it eventually comes to a point where there are not enough districts to service everyone and alliances start holding massive amounts of land, the system must make renting districts to other corps more profitable than the cost in time, effort, and ISK for an alliance to defend in the long run. If a situation like that occurs, smaller corps should be able to rent a district or two from an alliance and still make a decent profit maintaining and defending it themselves.
I think you are definetly strking the opportunity balance between the power blocs and the small our corps that are trying to get started or expand. The idea of the "raid" suddenly introduces a great mechanic for corps to consider the risk vs reward on achieving temp objective for a lower payout or trying to sieze and hold ground (and space).
It effectively gives the smaller corps an entry point into high level compteitive play and they can generate ISK actively through this mechanism.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1874
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Posted - 2014.04.03 22:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Don't get me wrong, I'm all about player freedom in the game. But right now it is too easy to control PC. If players want to dominate, the game should make them work their asses off to do so. On that same note however, everyone should get a decent chance for a piece of the pie, and districts should be available enough so that smaller or newer corps can actually play PC; the game mode that likely drew them to Dust in the first place. See how this comes full circle to enhancing the new player experience?
As for raiding, I would relate it to attacking an enemy POS in EVE. You're not entirely sure what is inside those Hangars, but if you break that bubble and get inside, there may be huge profits. Or huge losses. It's all part of the game and the risk/reward mechanic. Imagine the espionage element for a moment. Leaking false intel to an enemy corp to coax them into attacking a district which they think is full of resources, but is actually empty. You could burn their ISK, make them suffer and pay for the capture, and when they finally get it, they have nothing to show for it. Scorched Earth Tactics at their finest.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Shadow Archeus
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
362
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Way to go pokey....well done
Real heavies use lasers
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deezy dabest
CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY
294
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Posted - 2014.04.03 23:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think my favorite part of this idea is the PVE for drone sweeping.
It gives newer players the chance to contribute to the defense of a corps district out side of trying to make their way in to the 16 man team. That is the part CCP should listen to above all should they decide to ignore everything else about the idea. |
Kurgan Wess
1st US Army Group
0
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Posted - 2014.04.04 03:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
I fully support this idea. |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
1141
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 08:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pokey, great concept.
I'd been thinking along the same lines but lack the ability to get it across in a simple way like that. Lol
I would add one more thing however.
I would make it so the PvE element works like how FW does now. The more districts a corp owns the higher the rate of district infestation from rogue drones. Make it so it's harder work to maintain more and allow smaller corps a change to make ISK.
We need to expand beyond MH however.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
CPM1 candidate
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Kn1qht
INTERDIMENSIONAL SPACE KAT FEDERATION
35
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Posted - 2014.04.04 12:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nice work , will share
THIRD EYE | O.E.G| WIN AUR !
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M1tch Rapp
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
119
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Posted - 2014.04.04 16:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Awesome work, now we just need to get the OP on the CSM |
M1tch Rapp
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
119
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Posted - 2014.04.04 17:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Pokey, great concept.
I'd been thinking along the same lines but lack the ability to get it across in a simple way like that. Lol
I would add one more thing however.
I would make it so the PvE element works like how FW does now. The more districts a corp owns the higher the rate of district infestation from rogue drones. Make it so it's harder work to maintain more and allow smaller corps a change to make ISK.
We need to expand beyond MH however.
With something like this, I'm not sure you'd need to expand for a while.
I don't think people really understand how few people are actually involved in PC at the moment. |
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1885
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Posted - 2014.04.04 20:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
M1tch Rapp wrote:Awesome work, now we just need to get the OP on the CSM
Im happy to have your support! Post up in my CMP1 Candidate thread to show your support (link in my signature) and tell your corp and alliance about me. I'd be more than happy to meet with anyone to discuss whatever you like.
M1tch Rapp wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:Pokey, great concept.
I'd been thinking along the same lines but lack the ability to get it across in a simple way like that. Lol
I would add one more thing however.
I would make it so the PvE element works like how FW does now. The more districts a corp owns the higher the rate of district infestation from rogue drones. Make it so it's harder work to maintain more and allow smaller corps a change to make ISK.
We need to expand beyond MH however. With something like this, I'm not sure you'd need to expand for a while. I don't think people really understand how few people are actually involved in PC at the moment.
As for the infestation bit, what if we implemented a system where Infested districts would boost the infestation rate of adjacent districts by a margin and that rate boost would stack with additional nearby infestations. It would give the sense that the Infestation is spreading from district to district, and corps that control entire planets would need to diligent in constantly scrubbing infestations, otherwise the planet would very quickly become overrun due to this stacking effect.
This would effectively make the infestation rates of districts controlled on planets higher, such that holding a large chunk of land would mean a lot of work to maintain it.
As for opening up additional territory, the beauty of that is that the rate at which new districts are opened up and when that happens, is easily controllable. CCP could implement this system and see how it goes. If we still need more space, more space can be easily opened up. Obviously there is a ton of number crunching I have not gotten into, but I think the concept is fairly clear.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
1143
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Posted - 2014.04.04 23:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
An infestation mechanic could also be based on the proximity of corp districts to each other.
So holding onto a 5 district planet will be easier than a 7 district one. It could also mean that having a fully owned planet like that could effect the rate of infection to a district owned by the same corp in a neighbouring system.
That way a corp would have to think about positioning of districts as a quarantine zone. Bringing another level of variables to consider.
CPM1 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1885
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Posted - 2014.04.04 23:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Something like that yes. On that same note there should be some incentives to holding blocks of land, so a corp can consider how much effort they can put into defending groups of districts. If they can handle dealing with the infestations, then go for it. But if they're lacking in manpower then the cost of maintaining those districts may not be worth that "bulk" bonus.
You could also introduce a new SI that reduces the rate of infestation buildup.
EDIT: I'd also add that you get what you kill for. Capturing a district also means inheriting its existing infestation. So while heavily infested districts are easier to capture, you're then stuck with the task of clearing it out before its going to be profitable.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
591
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Posted - 2014.04.05 11:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
CPM votes ^...Those guys.
We can pickle that.
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
1145
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Posted - 2014.04.05 19:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Something like that yes. On that same note there should be some incentives to holding blocks of land, so a corp can consider how much effort they can put into defending groups of districts. If they can handle dealing with the infestations, then go for it. But if they're lacking in manpower then the cost of maintaining those districts may not be worth that "bulk" bonus.
You could also introduce a new SI that reduces the rate of infestation buildup.
EDIT: I'd also add that you get what you kill for. Capturing a district also means inheriting its existing infestation. So while heavily infested districts are easier to capture, you're then stuck with the task of clearing it out before its going to be profitable.
Would the drones have some sort of salvage value that we as dusters could sell to the Eggers at all you think? Perhaps a product that can normally be harvested in PI and sold in the open market? This would bring a further revenue stream to corps that would make maintaining a District profitable while still having to work for it.
CPM1 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1907
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Posted - 2014.04.06 23:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote: Would the drones have some sort of salvage value that we as dusters could sell to the Eggers at all you think? Perhaps a product that can normally be harvested in PI and sold in the open market? This would bring a further revenue stream to corps that would make maintaining a District profitable while still having to work for it.
Eggers? Haha I like that.
Initially I'd say Alloys as those were typically what dropped from Rogue Drones in EVE but that has since been removed.
If we were in Wormholes, I know Sleeper Salvage sells for a nice penny but thats best saved for Sleeper PvE missions down the the road.
I would probably suggest some of the salvage items that are valuable in EVE but also small in volume so it makes sense that it would come out of a more human-sized drone rather than a frigate sized one. By using existing EVE materials you allow that market to develop but it doesn't make EVE dependent on Dust
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
633
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Posted - 2014.04.07 03:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
yes!
It'll help define roles, i promise:)
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3288
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Posted - 2014.04.07 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:M1tch Rapp wrote:Awesome work, now we just need to get the OP on the CSM Im happy to have your support! Post up in my CMP1 Candidate thread to show your support (link in my signature) and tell your corp and alliance about me. I'd be more than happy to meet with anyone to discuss whatever you like. M1tch Rapp wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:Pokey, great concept.
I'd been thinking along the same lines but lack the ability to get it across in a simple way like that. Lol
I would add one more thing however.
I would make it so the PvE element works like how FW does now. The more districts a corp owns the higher the rate of district infestation from rogue drones. Make it so it's harder work to maintain more and allow smaller corps a change to make ISK.
We need to expand beyond MH however. With something like this, I'm not sure you'd need to expand for a while. I don't think people really understand how few people are actually involved in PC at the moment. As for the infestation bit, what if we implemented a system where Infested districts would boost the infestation rate of adjacent districts by a margin and that rate boost would stack with additional nearby infestations. It would give the sense that the Infestation is spreading from district to district, and corps that control entire planets would need to diligent in constantly scrubbing infestations, otherwise the planet would very quickly become overrun due to this stacking effect. This would effectively make the infestation rates of districts controlled on planets higher, such that holding a large chunk of land would mean a lot of work to maintain it. As for opening up additional territory, the beauty of that is that the rate at which new districts are opened up and when that happens, is easily controllable. CCP could implement this system and see how it goes. If we still need more space, more space can be easily opened up. Obviously there is a ton of number crunching I have not gotten into, but I think the concept is fairly clear.
The thing that I like about this the most is that it gives me the opportunity to play in a team setting with my corp pretty much non stop. I don't have to go into pubs where more than 50% of my team is licking a window in the ground spawn.
The PVE aspect of this would push players into corps and push them to learn how to play within a squad and eventually perhaps raise the overall skill level of Dust players.
I think that this idea could be the savior of Dust.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Level 3 Forum Warrior
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Laiod Klan
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
7
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Posted - 2014.04.07 16:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
The main problem is that PC happens in the WORST region for EVE pilots to be. Staying there longer than 5 minutes, or even orbiting a planet for that long, you are bound to be killed by someone. PC should happen in somewhere else, Molden Heath is a pretty bad location for anything IMO.
America is becoming a police state.
I traverse the universe in a warp field.
http://en.spaceengine.org/
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3289
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Posted - 2014.04.07 16:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Laiod Klan wrote:The main problem is that PC happens in the WORST region for EVE pilots to be. Staying there longer than 5 minutes, or even orbiting a planet for that long, you are bound to be killed by someone. PC should happen in somewhere else, Molden Heath is a pretty bad location for anything IMO.
Eve Orbitals are devastating enough that they need to be in a contested place.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Level 3 Forum Warrior
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Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
97
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
+1
It wasn't til I sat down and thought about this for a while, that I realized how important it is that PC 2.0 look like this. Is there any means to achieve this, in addition to getting Pokey on the CPM, that can help make this happen? |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3290
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:+1
It wasn't til I sat down and thought about this for a while, that I realized how important it is that PC 2.0 look like this. Is there any means to achieve this, in addition to getting Pokey on the CPM, that can help make this happen?
I'm afraid that it's already been determined, but rest easy Kain Spero is the voice of PC to CCP. What could go wrong?
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Level 3 Forum Warrior
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1910
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:+1
It wasn't til I sat down and thought about this for a while, that I realized how important it is that PC 2.0 look like this. Is there any means to achieve this, in addition to getting Pokey on the CPM, that can help make this happen? I'm afraid that it's already been determined, but rest easy Kain Spero is the voice of PC to CCP. What could go wrong?
I doubt we'll see anything more than a few band-aid hot fixes for PC during CPM0's term. I expect PC 2.0 to come about during CPM1's term.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
721
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nice thread, it deserves to be in the first page. +1 |
TokinABowl
ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION
1
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
Wow. Perfectly done concept map. I really hope CCP Looks into this. May i suggest posting this in The Councils Chambers?
-BETA BUNNY-
Lead Director - ACME SPECIAL FORCES
http://tinyurl.com/k85ymem
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1929
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
TokinABowl wrote:Wow. Perfectly done concept map. I really hope CCP Looks into this. May i suggest posting this in The Councils Chambers?
I've already shown CPM0 and they have forwarded it directly to the Devs.
Now elect me for CPM1 so I can make sure they don't screw it up
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1994
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Posted - 2014.04.18 08:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
bump
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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