KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10243
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Posted - 2014.04.03 07:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
ThePrinceOfNigeria wrote:Assault suits should get some love. As for Flaylocks you shall forever be shammed with those useless SPs for joining the F@glock bandwagon during its heyday.
Wanting to maintain imbalance out of spite is just stupid, and bad for the game. No weapon should be non-viable, all should thrive at their particular role, and all should have a purpose.
To the original poster:
The problem is the medium frame slot counts, slot layouts, and slot progression. Medium frames should have enough slots to maintain a significant gap between them and the light frames. Like every other frame size, mediums should gain only 1 module slot from one tier to the next, and the upper limit should be 8 (like mos current logis). So it should be 6 module slots STD, 7 ADV, 8 PRO. I say let scouts tank if they want to, as long as they don't start usurping the role of assaults.
My thread on the subject: [Request] Medium frame (basic/assault/logi) slot changes/incease
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: [UPDATE]:There are big problems with the medium frame slot layouts that need to be addressed. "Too long; didn't read" (TL;DR) version on post 2 (click here). [Assault & logistics issues] Slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly, just right now brick-tank scouts are bigger issue. Logis sacrifice sidearms, mobility, & base HP in exchange for for 2-3 more equipment (equip) slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equip slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance. - At standard (STD) tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module (mod) slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts. - Advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior mod slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts. - Prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also. Summary: logis underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV, & all OP at PRO.
No reason for the Caldari (Cal) logi only having 2 equip at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for the sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP even compared to the other UP STD logis.
There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD).
Am assault has less mod slots than other assaults. Yes it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari and Gallente assault, a small advantage already countered by being the slowest assault. It should be noted that the Am scout, Am sentinel, & Am commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Am suits aren't forced to give up a slot; they shouldn't have to give up a slot, and neither should the Am assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss. This problem makes the Am assault suffer the most from the brick-tanked scout problem, since the Am scout has more mod slots at STD-ADV than the assault, and same mod slot count at PRO; this allows the Am scout to surpass the Am assault in HP, while being faster, having a 2nd equip, stealthier, etc.
[Solution] Part 1: assault & logi Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).
Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.
Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:
Assault & logi STD (high/low) Am: 2/4 Ga: 2/4 Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 3/3 Assault & logi ADV Am: 2/5 Ga: 3/4 Ca: 5/2 Min: 4/3 Assault & logi PRO Am: 3/5 Ga: 3/5 Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 4/4 [ REMOVED BASIC MEDIUM STUFF TO SAVE SPACE ] Obviously PG/CPU should be tweaked
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10246
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Posted - 2014.04.03 15:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Flaylock should get a modest increase in splash damage and radius, or a bigger magazine.
On the subject of assaults being outperformed by scouts at assaulting. I think scouts should be able to bricktank if they want to, but the HP gap between scouts and medium frames should remain significant. Right now the HP gap isn't, and an Amarr scout actually has more module slots than an Amarr assault at STD-ADV for example and allows the scout to out-tank the assault, while still being faster, stealthier, better at scanning, have a 2nd equipment etc. The issue is less pronounced with the other assaults, but the gap is too small.
The problem is the medium frame slots, and slot progression. Like every other frame size, mediums should gain only 1 module slot from one tier to the next, and the upper limit should be 8 (like mos current logis). So it should be 6 module slots STD, 7 ADV, 8 PRO. I say let scouts tank if they want to, as long as they don't start usurping the role of assaults.
My thread on the subject: [Request] Medium frame (basic/assault/logi) slot changes/incease
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:[UPDATE]: The 6 at STD, 7 at ADV, 8 at PRO mod slot plan would make mediums competitive, & slayer brick-tanked scouts won't be able to out-tank and outperform medium frames at their own jobs. There is no need to nerf scouts, simply raise mod slot count on medium suits and the brick-tanked scouts won't be an issue. This thread was created before the brick-tanked scout problem, but I strongly believe my proposed slot layout solution for mediums will solve the issue. Read on, I will explain.There are big problems with the medium frame slot layouts that need to be addressed. "Too long; didn't read" (TL;DR) version on post 2 (click here). [Assault & logistics issues] Slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly, just right now brick-tank scouts are bigger issue. Logis sacrifice sidearms, mobility, & base HP in exchange for for 2-3 more equipment (equip) slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equip slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance. - At standard (STD) tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module (mod) slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts. - Advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior mod slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts. - Prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also. Summary: logis underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV, & all OP at PRO.
No reason for the Caldari (Cal) logi only having 2 equip at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for the sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP even compared to the other UP STD logis.
There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD).
Am assault has less mod slots than other assaults. Yes it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari and Gallente assault, a small advantage already countered by being the slowest assault. It should be noted that the Am scout, Am sentinel, & Am commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Am suits aren't forced to give up a slot; they shouldn't have to give up a slot, and neither should the Am assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss. This problem makes the Am assault suffer the most from the brick-tanked scout problem, since the Am scout has more mod slots at STD-ADV than the assault, and same mod slot count at PRO; this allows the Am scout to surpass the Am assault in HP, while being faster, having a 2nd equip, stealthier, etc.
[Solution] Part 1: assault & logi Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).
Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.
Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:
Assault & logi STD (high/low) Am: 2/4 Ga: 2/4 Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 3/3 Assault & logi ADV Am: 2/5 Ga: 3/4 Ca: 5/2 Min: 4/3 Assault & logi PRO Am: 3/5 Ga: 3/5 Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 4/4 [ REMOVED BASIC MEDIUM STUFF TO SAVE SPACE ] Obviously PG/CPU should be tweaked
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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