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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
659
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Posted - 2014.04.02 16:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Now since Mimi suits are by far the weakest of all , with the exception of heavy suits ... it has dawned to me that they should have the 1HP armor repair replaced back into the fold for Mimi's .
To give it to the race that armor tanks , has the greatest ability to armor rep and have max armor seems kind of like an overkill . Series Gal suits in the five hundreds in armor while Mimi suits lack in every department with the exception of speed .
Weak shields in this game leaves that in want , only two low slots , for the most part leaves this race in a most unfortunate disposition . Only the heavy suits can truly compete .
Assaults , Logi's and of course basic suits find themselves on the lower end of the totem pole and this must be corrected .
The only thing that they truly had going for them was the HP repair and now that's gone , which makes these suits performance far below the rest .. when before it could have been argued that this was the case but at least they had the regenerative HP going for them .
Players can say that they are doing fine but for the most part , this race is in desperate need of some fine tuning .
Everyone doesn't have the skill points to compete and without having a full infantry refund , some who would have used the redistribution of their skill points to make their character better on the battlefield now are at a greater disadvantage because those who were fortunate to have two to three prototype suits replenished their campaign , while those who were in need of a boost remained on the outside looking in .
Please give them back their regenerative HP boost . Gal's are strong enough but their compatriots on the battlefield are lacking and lacking greatly . LOL
So what minmatar suit is the weakest again?
Scout: No that is the amarr scout Logi: No, they are all pretty balances Assault: No, caldari is the worst Sentinel: Maybe, the jury is still out on this one Commando: Nope, it is the amarr sentinel and it is not even close.
Things that the matari are the bet at: Sprinting Jumping Strafing Hacking Repping Area Denial assasination DPS (HMG and CR >>>>>>>> everything) Damage profiles Stamina regen (double everyone else??? lol)
Things the matari at bad at: HP (which doesn't matter because slots minimize any starting HP difference)
God I swear minmatards are the biggest whiners in new eden (yes they will always claim they are underpowered in eve too, even when they are obviously OP)
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
661
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Posted - 2014.04.02 21:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote: LOL
So what minmatar suit is the weakest again?
Scout: No that is the amarr scout Logi: No, they are all pretty balances Assault: No, caldari is the worst Sentinel: Maybe, the jury is still out on this one Commando: Nope, it is the amarr sentinel and it is not even close.
Caldari Assault is far better than Minmatar Assault, as they have the ability to reach a higher eHP ceiling while still being faster than Gallente & Amarr frames, and they have a 4/3 layout, allowing for far better dual tanking, and even the ability to armor tank if they are going against LR or SCR spam. All of the Logistics got the shaft, though I will admit that the Matari's 5% Repair Rate & Tool Range is nice. How is it hung? You can have similar speed on the Caldari Sentinel, while having far greater eHP. Being the fastest Sentinel is like being the smartest kid on the Short Bus. The only thing the Minmatar commando has going for it is AV. The Speed of a Heavy Frame, yet the eHP of a Medium Frame. I could dispute your claim about the Amarr Commando, but I've already done so in another thread. Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Things that the matari are the best at: Sprinting Jumping Strafing Hacking Repping Area Denial assasination DPS (HMG and CR >>>>>>>> everything) Damage profiles Stamina regen (double everyone else??? lol)
- Sprinting? Yeah by 0.03m/s.
- Jumping? All that's good for is fighting a vehicle.
- Strafing? That's negated by Aim Assist, and the fact that being hit reduces your speed significantly.
- Hacking? That's far too situational to make a difference
- Repping? I'll give you that one
- Assassination? The only time the Nova Knife bonus makes a difference is when your fighting a Sentinel.
- Alpha GëÑ DPS. Would you rather kill your enemy quickly or instantly?
- The Explosive profile is the inverse of the Laser profile, and we only have 3 Projectile weapons in the game.
- Stamina? Who needs that when you can use your eHP to pull a Leroy Jenkins on everyone?
Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Things the matari at bad at: HP (which doesn't matter because slots minimize any starting HP difference)
God I swear minmatards are the biggest whiners in new eden (yes they will always claim they are underpowered in eve too, even when they are obviously OP)
25% less eHP for 0.03m/s? Yeah, that's not a problem. At least the Minmatar actually acknowledge when they're OP (for reference, see the Flaylock Pistol and Locus Grenade). Now what about the massive amount of Amarr Loyalists who were defending their crutch (1.4 - 1.7 Scrambler Rifle) and were protesting the nerf for the TTK changes? Weren't you the one crying about being worse than the Gallente by 0.01m/s and (at most) 100 eHP?
Um, you remember the fact that there is absolutely no reason to ever choose the amarrian scout over the gallente ever right? Yeah, totally crying there.
Uhh... I am not aware of any amarrians protesting the TTK changes. Oh, maybe you mean protesting the fact that now the scrambler rifle doesn't have enough damage to kill a heavy before overheat? Or that our overheat amount didn't get changed? Or maybe the fact that 2 out of 3 amarrian weapons are only competitive using one suit (that has a broken bonus right now?)
Please enlighten me. Maybe use some math, some proof, something other than bullsh-t?
Cal assault 1148 ehp vs minmatar assault at 1016 eHP if you brick tank both, with the minmatar assault being almost 0.5 m/sec faster, 0.7 m/sec faster sprinter, double the stamina regen, more stamina, faster hacking, more fitting left over, and a very useful bonus (the cal assault only has the EHP, thats it.) Minmatar assault >>> Caldari assault.
So, minmatar suits are all 0.2m/sec faster than cal/gal suits, and 0.4 m/sec faster than amarr suits. This translates into a 0.24 m/sec increase over those suits. In the case of sentinel and commandos, that is roughly a 6% difference, or the equivelent of a basic kinetic catalyzer.
Jumping is incredibly useful, ever try using an amarrian suit versus it's counterparts? Notice how terrain is much more difficult to navigate? Of course not, why would you want to have even the appearance of impartiality.
Strafing most definately is not negated by aim assists. This is a bullsh-t statement and you know it.
Hacking is incredibly useful in all game mods but ambush, and even then it might be (enemy vehicle, supply depot). To say otherwise is to lie.
Nova knife damage w/ and w/o minmitard bonus: Std 360 vs 450 Adv 600 vs 750 Pro 800 vs 1000
I would say it makes a difference at ALL levels. Of course you wouldn't though, because no advantage is ever to great for minmatards.
Uhhh... no weapon kills as fastand consistently as HMG or CR. See PC. No rifle does more damage per trigger pull (not even close actually). Once again, just ignoring facts here aren't you?
Lol "We only have 3 projectile weapons in game" ORLY? How many amarrian weapons in total are in-game?
Stamina regen is incredibly more useful than stamina. IF you can't figure out why, just leave the conversation to the adults then.
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
661
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Posted - 2014.04.02 21:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote: 25% less eHP for 0.03m/s? Yeah, that's not a problem.
At least the Minmatar actually acknowledge when they're OP (for reference, see the Flaylock Pistol and Locus Grenade). Now what about the massive amount of Amarr Loyalists who were defending their crutch (1.4 - 1.7 Scrambler Rifle) and were protesting the nerf for the TTK changes?
Weren't you the one crying about being worse than the Gallente by 0.01m/s and (at most) 100 eHP?
I want to address the specifically, because this is a bald face lie. This is completely indicative of the Bullsh-t I deal with in responses, and the reason why I am an a--hole to people, because I F-ING HATE LIARS.
There is NO MINMATAR SUIT THAT SACRIFICES 25% eHP, no there isn't, nope, your dumb.
Here are the HP difference from standard (standard = cal/gal HP): scout : -30 HP (-15% HP) assault: - 45 HP (-13.6%) logi: -30 HP (-11.1%) commando: -90 HP (-16% HP) senitel: -90 HP (-10%)
there is no minmatar suit that doesn't have a 0.2 m/sec advantage over the standard speed.
There is no minmatar suit that doesn't have AT LEAST 2.5X the stamina regen of the standard.
There is no minmatar suit that doesn't have above standard stamina.
There is no minmatar suit that is slower at hacking than it's contemporaries.
There is no minmatar suit that has less slots than it's contemporaries.
Now please pull yourself off of that cross that minmitards like to hang on, and stop lying.
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
661
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 22:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Emperor1349 wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Now since Mimi suits are by far the weakest of all , with the exception of heavy suits ... it has dawned to me that they should have the 1HP armor repair replaced back into the fold for Mimi's .
To give it to the race that armor tanks , has the greatest ability to armor rep and have max armor seems kind of like an overkill . Series Gal suits in the five hundreds in armor while Mimi suits lack in every department with the exception of speed .
Weak shields in this game leaves that in want , only two low slots , for the most part leaves this race in a most unfortunate disposition . Only the heavy suits can truly compete .
Assaults , Logi's and of course basic suits find themselves on the lower end of the totem pole and this must be corrected .
The only thing that they truly had going for them was the HP repair and now that's gone , which makes these suits performance far below the rest .. when before it could have been argued that this was the case but at least they had the regenerative HP going for them .
Players can say that they are doing fine but for the most part , this race is in desperate need of some fine tuning .
Everyone doesn't have the skill points to compete and without having a full infantry refund , some who would have used the redistribution of their skill points to make their character better on the battlefield now are at a greater disadvantage because those who were fortunate to have two to three prototype suits replenished their campaign , while those who were in need of a boost remained on the outside looking in .
Please give them back their regenerative HP boost . Gal's are strong enough but their compatriots on the battlefield are lacking and lacking greatly . LOL So what minmatar suit is the weakest again? Scout: No that is the amarr scout Logi: No, they are all pretty balances Assault: No, caldari is the worst Sentinel: Maybe, the jury is still out on this one Commando: Nope, it is the amarr sentinel and it is not even close. Things that the matari are the bet at: Sprinting Jumping Strafing Hacking Repping Area Denial assasination DPS (HMG and CR >>>>>>>> everything) Damage profiles Stamina regen (double everyone else??? lol) Things the matari at bad at: HP (which doesn't matter because slots minimize any starting HP difference) God I swear minmatards are the biggest whiners in new eden (yes they will always claim they are underpowered in eve too, even when they are obviously OP) None of those weapons are a minmatar suit. Lmao "minmatards are the biggest whiners in new eden" coming from an Amarr, you guys will always have that title, you guys can't even get new stuff without crying its not the best weeks in advanced. So sorry we bothered you with our facts and math and reasoned debate. Maybe we should just do the minmatard thing and kick and cry like little babies with no evidence, facts, or math to back up anything at all.... ever.
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
662
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Posted - 2014.04.02 22:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:[...] your dumb. Hmm... for some reason, I'm having trouble taking you seriously. Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Here are the HP difference from standard (standard = cal/gal HP): scout : -30 HP (-15% HP) assault: - 45 HP (-13.6%) logi: -30 HP (-11.1%) commando: -90 HP (-16% HP) senitel: -90 HP (-10%)
there is no minmatar suit that doesn't have a 0.2 m/sec advantage over the standard speed.
There is no minmatar suit that doesn't have AT LEAST 2.5X the stamina regen of the standard.
There is no minmatar suit that doesn't have above standard stamina.
There is no minmatar suit that is slower at hacking than it's contemporaries.
There is no minmatar suit that has less slots than it's contemporaries.
Now please pull yourself off of that cross that minmitards like to hang on, and stop lying. I started another thread on this cuz my post was hecka long, but it explains why your first three points don't really make up for the EHP disparity. The gist of it is: CRNWLLC wrote:[...] the Minnie suits are disadvantaged compared to their counterparts as their tanking style is outcompeted by those of their rivals. Their slightly improved speed will never make up for their serious lack of EHP. It roughly shakes out like this:
Min vs. Cal/Gal: 5-6% better speed for 10-14% less EHP Min vs. Amarr: 9-10% better speed for 15-20+% less EHP
To quote Johnnie Cochran and the Wookie Defense: GÇ£This does not make senseGÇ¥. As Atiim pointed out, hacking it too situational to be considered a "great" bonus, and though all suits have the same number of slots, the layout of the slots on the Minnie assault suit is ridiculous and should be swapped with the Caldari's. The EHP difference you point out (ranging from between 30 and 90, depending on the suits) is equal to 1 - 2.5 rounds that the other suits can tank over the Minnie suits; taking into account AA and the fact that the relevant projectile travels significantly faster than standard speed + 0.2, the speed bonus isn't that impressive.
So, what evidence do you have that being significantly faster is not at all beneficial? As far as I can tell, strafing in CQC is way more effective than standing still, and people constantly make threads about people being unhittable because of mouse/keyboard strafing (its the strafing speed, not the controller....).
You can't just randomly discount a bonus as if it doesn't exist because you don't like it, you need to have some type of tangible evidence.
For instance:
Difference between amarr and minmatar sentienl HP: 135 HP (1 complex armor plate) Difference between amarr and minmatar movement: 0.2(0.28) (1 complex kincat, can't make up for walk/jump/strafe) Difference between amarr and minmatar stamina: +40% amarr (less than an enhanced mod) Difference between amarr and minmatar stamina regen: +100% minmatar (1 complex mod)
So, we can without a doubt say that altogether minmatar have large ups than downs than the amarr here. The only downside to the minmatar is lower total eHP. This means in a straight up, no one moves at all fight they loose.
The upside is that the minmatar sentinel will not be a sitting duck when trying to move anywhere. The minmatar suit can move from cover to cover much faster, and on maps that are 90% open terrain, this is very beneficial.It will be able to go everywhere at any time faster, every time.
Here is what you are complaining about:
Minmatar sentenel cannot out eHP other suits.
Is that the minmatar sentinel role? Do you ever hear amarr complain that the amarr suit of the same level cannot go faster than the minmatar? Oh thats right you don't because we don't think we should be the very best at everything, or even most things, actually just 1-2 things.
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
662
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Posted - 2014.04.02 22:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Minmatar suits need better shield recharge rates OR timers than caldari.
For ****'s sake, they need SOMETHING.
See this is something I can get behind.
Saying the minmatar suits should have -1 high +1 low compared to caldari makes sense.
Saying shield extenders need to be worth it below prototype, and that all shield extenders need to take more CPU and less PG makes sense.
Saying that stun-locking needs to be toned down makes sense.
Saying minmatar suits are the worst in-game is just insulting because it isn't true. There is no evidence to back this assertion up, and no one even attempts to provide any.
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
664
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Posted - 2014.04.02 23:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Minmatar suits need better shield recharge rates OR timers than caldari.
For ****'s sake, they need SOMETHING. See this is something I can get behind. Saying the minmatar suits should have -1 high +1 low compared to caldari makes sense. Saying shield extenders need to be worth it below prototype, and that all shield extenders need to take more CPU and less PG makes sense. Saying that stun-locking needs to be toned down makes sense. Saying minmatar suits are the worst in-game is just insulting because it isn't true. There is no evidence to back this assertion up, and no one even attempts to provide any. The thing is though. They ARE worse. Gallente scout is currently the best 'speed tanker' Amarr sentinel is the best sentinel for doing sentinel things. Caldari assault (bonuses aside) is the best at... Assaulting. Minmatar gets... Rep tool bonus? Hacking bonus? A bonus that doesn't support the 'ht n run' playstyle for assault? Seriously. We lose 100 Hp, AND shield rgen/timers... AND PG. For... .2 m/s speed and a bonus for 'stand and deliver' tactics?
Numbers, use numbers.
How is the gallente the best speed tanker? Is this because it would have to sacrifice every single low-slot to compete with the minmatar speed tanking, and then have one less high-slot to use at that point? Or is it because it will always get beat by the minmatar suit to every single spot on the map, always?
Need clarification on amarr sentinel. Caldari assault is the best at assaulting? Since 1.8? ORLY? How about elaborating on that. Just because that is your opinion doesn't make it so.
Rep tool bonus is extremely useful if you are a repping logi. Oh and it at least has all of the slots... amarr still missing a slot for no reason at all. Hacking bonus is not only on the scout, all minmatar suit that get a hacking bonus hack faster than any of the other suits, you know, for no reason at all. This means, just like how minmatar suits are designed, they are out of cover the least amount of time of any suit.
Where do you loose 100 HP and some PG? On the heavy suits? What do you get in return? 2.5 times more stamina regen, 5-10% faster? Sound fair. Oh wait, you want the minmatar to be stand an deliver suits... something that they ARE NOT MEANT TO DO. The minmatar heavies can move from cover to cover (you know, where most heavies just get obliterated) faster and more often than any other suit.
No they are not the worst suits by a long shot.
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
664
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Posted - 2014.04.02 23:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Nope, not the Minmatar thang.
Our Assaults need a better layout 4H 4L Suit Bonuses need to include our explosive weapons.
Armour Rep is gallante we are hit and run, we should take eithercaldari rep speed OR shield delay and swap it with ours. Its hardly fair they have a moderate tank, +plus lowest shield delay +highest shield rep rate.
I know it is almost like the minmatar use a different style of gameplay rather than slugging it out???
Why do the minmatar players think that they should be able to win in a slugging competition when that is not the deisgn of thier suits?
Oh and did someone just complain about having more slots than the amarr assault? What next, are you going to complain about how you can use minmatar weapons on any suit, where as the amarr weapons (2/3rds anyway) are only decent on ONE SUIT. Or maybe you were going to complain about having a free complex cardiac regulator and then some? Or half a free hacking mod?
Yeah... so underpowered.........
Fixing swarms
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
664
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 00:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:so are minmataar suits udnerpowered when thier medium frames move as fast as scouts form other races????
Of course because they can't have more eHP while being faster and running longer and regen faster and hacking faster while having the most cpu......
Fixing swarms
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