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Outlaw OneZero
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
1379
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
So scouts are now the kings of EWAR, which is great, they now have a role that can really contribute to their team. There is even significant variety in how this role can contribute to team, including intel gathering, infiltration / disruption, stealth hacking, and vehicle ambushing. Again, great stuff, scouts are in the best place they've ever been.
Unfortunately, they can also fit a serious tank without a significant loss to their EWAR capability. This leads to less variety in fits and an assault class that has been outclassed.
I propose that HP modules come with an EWAR penalty. Because of the way Cal and Gal scouts are bonused, I think the following penalties make the most sense:
Armor plates should increase suit signature. You're adding more mass to your suit, it should increase the sig. This makes a player have to decide between increasing HP and maintaining a low signature. Basic plates are made from the cheapest materials and have the highest sig hit, proto are made of cutting edge materials and take the least hit. This also helps balance against the speed penalties for plates. Feroscale are made of super-light materials and incur no penalty at any level. Reactive plates have a built-in repper that generates a constant high noise level.
Below are some suggested values, (this needs some careful analysis to find the right balance):
Armor Plate Signature Penalties
Basic Armor Plate -----: +5dB sig / plate
Advanced Armor Plate:-+4dB sig / plate
Prototype Armor Plate-: +3dB sig / plate
Feroscale Plates -------: +0db sig
Reactive Plates ---------: +5db sig / plate
Shield modules should reduce scan precision. The shield is generating interference with your on-suit scanners. Again Basic Extenders have the largest penalty and Prototype has the smallest.
Shield Extender Precision Penalties
Basic Shield Extender ---: -5dB precision / module
Adv Shield Extender ------: -4dB precision / module
Proto Shield Extender ----: -3dB precision / module
These changes should create more fitting decisions and increase the use of non-HP high/low slot modules. It should also let assaults reclaim their position as scouts now have to lose signature or precision in order to fit assault levels of HP. |
Outlaw OneZero
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1379
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Henrietta Unknown wrote:I might be wrong, but I heard that by EVE lore, shield extenders lead to a higher profile signature, not armor.
I understand that this isn't EVE lore, the problem is that CCP produced a sig bonus for the scout that can stack the most plates. If it doesn't cost them sig to brick tank, why wouldn't you do it? |
Outlaw OneZero
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1379
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Outlaw OneZero wrote:Unfortunately, they can also fit a serious tank without a significant loss to their EWAR capability. This leads to less variety in fits and an assault class that has been outclassed. Considering this is completely wrong and Scouts HAVE to place a lot of importance in choosing between stacking EWAR modules or stacking tanking modules, I shouldn't really need to address the rest of your post, but because it does things so backwards, I'm going to anyway... Quote:I propose that HP modules come with an EWAR penalty. Because of the way Cal and Gal scouts are bonused, I think the following penalties make the most sense: Uhhhh... lolwut? Quote:Armor plates should increase suit signature. You're adding more mass to your suit, it should increase the sig. This makes a player have to decide between increasing HP and maintaining a low signature. Basic plates are made from the cheapest materials and have the highest sig hit, proto are made of cutting edge materials and take the least hit. This also helps balance against the speed penalties for plates. Feroscale are made of super-light materials and incur no penalty at any level. Reactive plates have a built-in repper that generates a constant high noise level. So you're saying that a suit that's designed for armour tanking and profile signature should LOSE one advantage in order to capitalise on the other? And the suit that's designed for scanning capabilities and shield tanking should give up one of its primary roles if it wants to focus more heavily on the other? If - and that would be a massive "if" - adding any penalties to these modules was a good idea in the first place, then they should be the exact opposite of what you're proposing FOR THE EXACT REASONS YOU'RE CLAIMING TO BE THINKING OF.  I hope you just typed the whole thing up the wrong way around by mistake or something, because if not... wow.
Yes a scout shouldn't be able to stack more armor than an assualt, have a lower sig, be faster, with a smaller hitbox...
These penalties would address that.
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Outlaw OneZero
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1381
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Outlaw OneZero wrote:Henrietta Unknown wrote:I might be wrong, but I heard that by EVE lore, shield extenders lead to a higher profile signature, not armor. I understand that this isn't EVE lore, the problem is that CCP produced a sig bonus for the scout that can stack the most plates. If it doesn't cost them sig to brick tank, why wouldn't you do it? Actually, gallente scouts do have to sacrifice 'sig' to armour tank because profile dampeners are low slots, same as armor mods. In order to still avoid caldari scouts and gallente logis, gallente scouts still have to fit at least one dampener.
1 WHOLE LOW SLOT? OH NOES!!! HOW WILL I EVER FIT 4 PLATES NOW!?!? |
Outlaw OneZero
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
1381
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:
Well, you could still fit 3 complex plates. 3x 135 = 405hp. That's roughly 1 second of fire from many rifles. OMG so tanked it will never die.
That's over 600 armor on a skilled proto Gal scout, that is also invisible to all EWAR. |
Outlaw OneZero
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1382
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Posted - 2014.04.02 15:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Look, my point is that you are trying to balance tanking specifically in regards to scouts, which is the wrong way to do it. You need to be balancing tanking with regards to the entire game, otherwise you'll just continue to be tinkering with symptoms and not causes.
Scout tanking is a symptom of brick tanking being the best thing to do to any suit. The top scouts were doing this way before 1.8 came along but now because there are so many more, suddenly they're a problem! Brick tanking in general needs to be taken down a peg and shields aren't too bad (apart from really being the only worthwhile high slot mod), so it's really a problem with regular armor plating. Reduce armor plate hp to a level where running it instead of ewar or biotics or even reps is not the obvious best choice. That's balance. Not make up some silly class specific penalty to stop one role from having any diversity beyond what you or anyone else thinks should be the only way to fit it.
You are of course correct. My mistake is in trying to implement a small change that would help bring about more balance. The problem is greater than a small change will fix however. The problem is and always has been that modules other than HP modules are not useful enough (for the most part) to warrant using something else. Particularly now that damage mods are nearly useless. |
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