DUST Search - NK damage

Maken Tosch wrote:

Ludvig Enraga wrote:

Here is the math according to my understanding of it.

Proto NK: 200hp per swing
Proto NK charged: 200hp x 2(modifier) x 2 (number of swings) = 800 hp
Minja 5: 25% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1000 hp for a charged attack
Prof 5: 15% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1200 hp

1200 is not enough to take out a tanked heavy. I believe now brick tanked heavies can go to 1800 hp (hp ceiling)

Even adding multiple damage mods to NK will only get you to probably 1300 to 1400 hp in damage, depending on how exactly the calculator works.

You are not accounting for the approximate 20% damage bonus dealt to both shields and armor which has been confirmed by many knifers as an undocumented bonus that knives have.

Overall, as an experienced knifer, the central issue is the tunnel vision that scouts have at close range and the somewhat narrow attack cone that knives have. If those two factors can be resolved, then knives will be fine.

Honestly, forget about the heavies. They are not our primary targets anymore. The real threat is either another scout or a logi. Heavies are now something that is best left to assaults to deal with.

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Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 974	Posted - 2014.04.02 04:43:00 - [1] - Quote I use exclusively NK - has been this way for the last several months. I am only interested in opinions of ppl with extensive experience with NK. How much damage does NK need? With so many heavies around the answer should be "as much as possible". However, prof 5 and Minja at 5 take you only that far. Beyond that you have to sacrifice high slots for damage mods. How many dmg mods do you put in the highs before your performance suffers? As a side note; I have not researched this myself; so I will just ask. Is NK indifferent to shield vs armor - i.e. equally effective against both? PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 1094	Posted - 2014.04.02 04:48:00 - [2] - Quote NK are indeed impartial to shields or armor. They are 100%/100%. In addition, the sentinel bonuses against certain weapons seem to not affect NK, so you only have to calculate your raw damage vs their raw hp. Charging them fully yields 2.5x damage modifier to your knives. Proto knives with prof 5 should kill nearly any suit save brick tanked sentinels. Add on minscout 5, and you shouldn't need any more damage to kill them with the two swings. As far as single hit kills, that is unlikely except on other scouts. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
Tectonic Fusion 1386	Posted - 2014.04.02 04:57:00 - [3] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: NK are indeed impartial to shields or armor. They are 100%/100%. In addition, the sentinel bonuses against certain weapons seem to not affect NK, so you only have to calculate your raw damage vs their raw hp. Charging them fully yields 2.5x damage modifier to your knives. Proto knives with prof 5 should kill nearly any suit save brick tanked sentinels. Add on minscout 5, and you shouldn't need any more damage to kill them with the two swings. As far as single hit kills, that is unlikely except on other scouts. This. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 975	Posted - 2014.04.02 05:15:00 - [4] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: NK are indeed impartial to shields or armor. They are 100%/100%. In addition, the sentinel bonuses against certain weapons seem to not affect NK, so you only have to calculate your raw damage vs their raw hp. Charging them fully yields 2.5x damage modifier to your knives. Proto knives with prof 5 should kill nearly any suit save brick tanked sentinels. Add on minscout 5, and you shouldn't need any more damage to kill them with the two swings. As far as single hit kills, that is unlikely except on other scouts. This is actually false. My min scout 5 with NK prof 4 is not able to take down a sentinel with a charged strike. I have to finish them off with regular swings. The problem though is that, as you know, often one strike is all you have - the heavy can take one step left or right causing you to miss the subsequent swing a lot of the time. Being able to kill a heavy in one charged strike is definitely an advantage. Also, I believe that a fully charged strike is only 2x damage (of course you do two of them per a fully landed charged attack). PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 975	Posted - 2014.04.02 05:20:00 - [5] - Quote Here is the math according to my understanding of it. Proto NK: 200hp per swing Proto NK charged: 200hp x 2(modifier) x 2 (number of swings) = 800 hp Minja 5: 25% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1000 hp for a charged attack Prof 5: 15% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1200 hp 1200 is not enough to take out a tanked heavy. I believe now brick tanked heavies can go to 1800 hp (hp ceiling) Even adding multiple damage mods to NK will only get you to probably 1300 to 1400 hp in damage, depending on how exactly the calculator works. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 699	Posted - 2014.04.02 05:28:00 - [6] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: NK are indeed impartial to shields or armor. They are 100%/100%. In addition, the sentinel bonuses against certain weapons seem to not affect NK, so you only have to calculate your raw damage vs their raw hp. Charging them fully yields 2.5x damage modifier to your knives. Proto knives with prof 5 should kill nearly any suit save brick tanked sentinels. Add on minscout 5, and you shouldn't need any more damage to kill them with the two swings. As far as single hit kills, that is unlikely except on other scouts. This is actually false. My min scout 5 with NK prof 4 is not able to take down a sentinel with a charged strike. I have to finish them off with regular swings. The problem though is that, as you know, often one strike is all you have - the heavy can take one step left or right causing you to miss the subsequent swing a lot of the time. Being able to kill a heavy in one charged strike is definitely an advantage. Also, I believe that a fully charged strike is only 2x damage (of course you do two of them per a fully landed charged attack). Charged is indeed only 2x. For heavies, I usu charge and follow up for a second set of swipes dealing 900 damage total (1200, if using Ishukone NKs) if they survive I switch to my firearm and finish them off. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2943	Posted - 2014.04.02 05:30:00 - [7] - Quote Gal Scout with Ishokone NK does not need prof. Just charge and swipe. The advanced knives are good but need a few swipes to work and the std ones are terrible. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7762	Posted - 2014.04.02 05:51:00 - [8] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Here is the math according to my understanding of it. Proto NK: 200hp per swing Proto NK charged: 200hp x 2(modifier) x 2 (number of swings) = 800 hp Minja 5: 25% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1000 hp for a charged attack Prof 5: 15% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1200 hp 1200 is not enough to take out a tanked heavy. I believe now brick tanked heavies can go to 1800 hp (hp ceiling) Even adding multiple damage mods to NK will only get you to probably 1300 to 1400 hp in damage, depending on how exactly the calculator works. You are not accounting for the approximate 20% damage bonus dealt to both shields and armor which has been confirmed by many knifers as an undocumented bonus that knives have. Overall, as an experienced knifer, the central issue is the tunnel vision that scouts have at close range and the somewhat narrow attack cone that knives have. If those two factors can be resolved, then knives will be fine. Honestly, forget about the heavies. They are not our primary targets anymore. The real threat is either another scout or a logi. Heavies are now something that is best left to assaults to deal with. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 571	Posted - 2014.04.02 11:11:00 - [9] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Here is the math according to my understanding of it. Proto NK: 200hp per swing Proto NK charged: 200hp x 2(modifier) x 2 (number of swings) = 800 hp Minja 5: 25% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1000 hp for a charged attack Prof 5: 15% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1200 hp 1200 is not enough to take out a tanked heavy. I believe now brick tanked heavies can go to 1800 hp (hp ceiling) Even adding multiple damage mods to NK will only get you to probably 1300 to 1400 hp in damage, depending on how exactly the calculator works. I ve had to do 3 charges on gal heavies, or two and a gun, knives need a buff Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 872	Posted - 2014.04.02 11:28:00 - [10] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: NK are indeed impartial to shields or armor. They are 100%/100%. In addition, the sentinel bonuses against certain weapons seem to not affect NK, so you only have to calculate your raw damage vs their raw hp. Charging them fully yields 2.5x damage modifier to your knives. Proto knives with prof 5 should kill nearly any suit save brick tanked sentinels. Add on minscout 5, and you shouldn't need any more damage to kill them with the two swings. As far as single hit kills, that is unlikely except on other scouts. I love NK's but its a shame that they are only truly useful on a single suit. IMHO the current minni bonus should a) belong to all scouts or b) be part of the operation or proficiency skill So that ALL can make perfect use of NK's the shier height of the bonus shows that even CCP must think they are weak...

Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 976	Posted - 2014.04.02 19:30:00 - [11] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Here is the math according to my understanding of it. Proto NK: 200hp per swing Proto NK charged: 200hp x 2(modifier) x 2 (number of swings) = 800 hp Minja 5: 25% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1000 hp for a charged attack Prof 5: 15% bonus to the base of 800 hp - so 1200 hp 1200 is not enough to take out a tanked heavy. I believe now brick tanked heavies can go to 1800 hp (hp ceiling) Even adding multiple damage mods to NK will only get you to probably 1300 to 1400 hp in damage, depending on how exactly the calculator works. You are not accounting for the approximate 20% damage bonus dealt to both shields and armor which has been confirmed by many knifers as an undocumented bonus that knives have. Overall, as an experienced knifer, the central issue is the tunnel vision that scouts have at close range and the somewhat narrow attack cone that knives have. If those two factors can be resolved, then knives will be fine. Honestly, forget about the heavies. They are not our primary targets anymore. The real threat is either another scout or a logi. Heavies are now something that is best left to assaults to deal with. I am having good success with proto knives on heavies or not. I don't think that they need fixing. The cone issue I think is fine - IMO that's what keeps the knife from getting an op fotm. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 976	Posted - 2014.04.02 19:34:00 - [12] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: NK are indeed impartial to shields or armor. They are 100%/100%. In addition, the sentinel bonuses against certain weapons seem to not affect NK, so you only have to calculate your raw damage vs their raw hp. Charging them fully yields 2.5x damage modifier to your knives. Proto knives with prof 5 should kill nearly any suit save brick tanked sentinels. Add on minscout 5, and you shouldn't need any more damage to kill them with the two swings. As far as single hit kills, that is unlikely except on other scouts. I love NK's but its a shame that they are only truly useful on a single suit. IMHO the current minni bonus should a) belong to all scouts or b) be part of the operation or proficiency skill So that ALL can make perfect use of NK's the shier height of the bonus shows that even CCP must think they are weak... I think proto knives are quite viable on any scout suit. The only thing that min does better is actually being able to kill heavies. So I think the way it is is fine. 800 charrged damage is enough. Get prof up and no suit short of heavies will survive. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Horizen Kenpachi Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 277	Posted - 2014.04.02 19:39:00 - [13] - Quote Ur all bad people u made me put sp to adv lvl and now iv opened up a barbershop to all merc in this thread 4 ur guidance and support im slashing the faces i mean prices thoughout new eden pop along ul look great after iv scalped those stray hairs. Terms and conditions apply Hit me with your nerf bat.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1259	Posted - 2014.04.02 20:07:00 - [14] - Quote With a proto Min scout and proficiency 3, you should be set so long as you are using Ishukone Nova Knives. One charged swipe will kill all mediums/scouts/commandos even if fully brick tanked. One charged + one uncharged will kill all heavies even if fully brick tanked. Don't bother with damage mods. The formulas for damage dealt are 2.267x for uncharged swipes, and 4.978x for charged swipes, where "x" is your damage per single knife. Min Scout 5 and proficiency 3 make this value 272.5HP, which translates into 618HP for uncharged swipes and 1356HP for charged swipes, if both hits connect. The charged damage exceeds the maximum HP for any light/medium/commando suit. The charged + uncharged damage exceeds the maximum HP for any heavy suit.
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 802	Posted - 2014.04.02 20:17:00 - [15] - Quote Seems you have plenty of experts chiming in on actual damage being done. But on the battlefield I never saw a tangible benefit for damage mods, now they are half as effectiveshrug. I feel you are better off stacking some tank or getting additional precision. If you are fitting an SMG on as well, then I usually fit a complex sidearm dmg mod. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 197	Posted - 2014.04.02 20:39:00 - [16] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: NK are indeed impartial to shields or armor. They are 100%/100%. In addition, the sentinel bonuses against certain weapons seem to not affect NK, so you only have to calculate your raw damage vs their raw hp. Charging them fully yields 2.5x damage modifier to your knives. Proto knives with prof 5 should kill nearly any suit save brick tanked sentinels. Add on minscout 5, and you shouldn't need any more damage to kill them with the two swings. As far as single hit kills, that is unlikely except on other scouts. I love NK's but its a shame that they are only truly useful on a single suit. IMHO the current minni bonus should a) belong to all scouts or b) be part of the operation or proficiency skill So that ALL can make perfect use of NK's the shier height of the bonus shows that even CCP must think they are weak... Then what would the new Minja bonus be? "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 976	Posted - 2014.04.03 02:51:00 - [17] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Seems you have plenty of experts chiming in on actual damage being done. But on the battlefield I never saw a tangible benefit for damage mods, now they are half as effectiveshrug. I feel you are better off stacking some tank or getting additional precision. If you are fitting an SMG on as well, then I usually fit a complex sidearm dmg mod. Thanks! This helps. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.


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