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Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
965
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Posted - 2014.04.01 20:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just about every module out there has a stacking penalty already. Just round it out and add stacking penalty to these as well.
The Prototype Shield Extender would follow the path below as you stack them:
The Prototype Armor Plate would follow the path below as you stack them:
- 135.0
- 117.3
- 77.3
- 38.2
- 14.3
For 4 extenders, you'd lose ~84 shield to stacking penalties. For 4 plates, you'd lose ~172 armor to stacking penalties. How does this help? For starters it helps shield stacking look more amenable because you lose less as you stack. The percentage penalty is the same, but your second extender only lost 9 EHP while your second plate lost 18 EHP. But beyond that it will make brick scouting much less palatable.
Heavies wouldn't really need to care in the first place. Sentinels are already up above 1500 EHP already, these penalties account for about a 10% reduction on someone completely brick tanked. Commandos have too few slots for the stacking penalty to add up. Mediums would have to consider themselves a little better, but they have plenty of fitting space to add more things anyway. Plus, Assault suit bonus could always be "less penalty to fitting shield / armor / damage / biotic mods".
Scouts simply wouldn't be able to brick tank as effectively anymore. Losing 84 shield and/or 172 armor is pretty huge on a suit that sits below 300 EHP naturally. On the maximum end:
- Cal scout would lose 102 EHP
- Gal scout would lose 181 EHP
- Min scout would lose 112 EHP
- Am scout would lose 181 EHP
People would still brick scouts, but they wouldn't go on cloaked terror sprees anymore. EWAR skills become the smarter build, as does spreading out your mods to get the most bang per ISK.
Hail Bacon
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2014.04.01 21:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think shield extender have that kind of penalty already. Armor plates have already speed penalty thats worst then HP penalty. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
485
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Posted - 2014.04.01 21:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Are you dying a lot and that was the reason this is written ???
You don't like to see players do better than you ???
I'm just trying to understand the reason behind this .
You have a speed penalty for plates , like what was mentioned and you have a shield penalty so ... why suggest such unless you have become frustrated by your own game play .
Edit : You have mentioned scouts quite a bit so is this about shotguns and scouts or heavies with over 1000 hp's in armor ???
Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
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Kiiran-B
The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2014.04.01 23:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shield doesn't need to lose anymore HP.
I don't know if they have implemented it yet but I'm sure shield stacking increased your sig radius? Meaning you're easier to scan and show up on the map easier.
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xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
184
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Posted - 2014.04.01 23:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
^not implemented
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
1.8 is going to be Heavy 514 they said... Looking around all I see are twig men
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Zetsumi Ravencroft
Ultramarine Corp
13
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Posted - 2014.04.02 06:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:^not implemented
First off... your sig, I like it... pretty much sums up the first few days of 1.8 in my experience.
Second, I hope that never gets implemented, otherwise the Caldari are going to be in a very bad place...
@OP: We've already got a stacking penalty on plates, it's called speed reduction... a better solution against the plague of brick tanked scouts is to not nerf the HP plates give, but to give light frames an increased speed penalty (I say double) for using armor plates... wanna brick tank with the regular plates? Fine, but you're going to be running slower then an assault because of it, so good luck catching up to anyone you're trying to knife or shotgun in the back, and good luck running away when you mess up and get caught.
M.A.G - Former RAVEN
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
2150
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Posted - 2014.04.02 06:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:Just about every module out there has a stacking penalty already. Just round it out and add stacking penalty to these as well. The Prototype Shield Extender would follow the path below as you stack them: The Prototype Armor Plate would follow the path below as you stack them:
- 135.0
- 117.3
- 77.3
- 38.2
- 14.3
For 4 extenders, you'd lose ~84 shield to stacking penalties. For 4 plates, you'd lose ~172 armor to stacking penalties. How does this help? For starters it helps shield stacking look more amenable because you lose less as you stack. The percentage penalty is the same, but your second extender only lost 9 EHP while your second plate lost 18 EHP. But beyond that it will make brick scouting much less palatable. Heavies wouldn't really need to care in the first place. Sentinels are already up above 1500 EHP already, these penalties account for about a 10% reduction on someone completely brick tanked. Commandos have too few slots for the stacking penalty to add up. Mediums would have to consider themselves a little better, but they have plenty of fitting space to add more things anyway. Plus, Assault suit bonus could always be "less penalty to fitting shield / armor / damage / biotic mods". Scouts simply wouldn't be able to brick tank as effectively anymore. Losing 84 shield and/or 172 armor is pretty huge on a suit that sits below 300 EHP naturally. On the maximum end:
- Cal scout would lose 102 EHP
- Gal scout would lose 181 EHP
- Min scout would lose 112 EHP
- Am scout would lose 181 EHP
People would still brick scouts, but they wouldn't go on cloaked terror sprees anymore. EWAR skills become the smarter build, as does spreading out your mods to get the most bang per ISK.
No. Stacking penalties are for percentage (multiplicative) based bonuses, not additive ones. |
Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
1691
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Posted - 2014.04.02 07:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shield Extenders and Armor Plates should just be reworked to provide a percentage increase to base HP.
This would prevent the brick tanked scouts we're seeing with 500-750 armor while still sprinting 7.00+ m/s. It'd also put Assaults at a little higher advantage over Scouts, because currently Scouts can tank just as much if not more than Assaults can while still having speed, better recharge, better scan skills, and cloak.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
2026
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Posted - 2014.04.02 07:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
No.
Nerf regular armor plate HP.
Complex Armor Plates are too good on scouts right now, they are also too good on other suits.
Shield extenders, Ferroscale plates and Reactive plates are balanced, and dont need a stacking penalty.
Drop it like its hat.
I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day
1078
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Posted - 2014.04.02 07:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
You want the weakest scout to loose more shields? lol no.
Also, why the bias against scouts?
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
869
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Posted - 2014.04.02 08:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Brick tanked scouts already looses quite a lot, just like any suit that chooses to brick tank.
But what I could see is something like this
light plates (reactive eg) no penalties to light frames, mediums and heavies med plates (ferroscale eg) light penalty on light frames no on med ans heavy suits regular/heavy plates big penalty on light frames, moderate penalty on med frames and little penalty on heavy frames.... |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2658
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
The only problem is with armor plating providing such massive HP at comparably little fittings costs.
Complex shield extender = 72.6hp (including skill buff) 36 CPU 16 PG Complex armor plate = 148.5hp (including skill buff) 54 CPU 11 PG
So for 33% less CPU and 45% more PG you get over 200% more HP.
That's insane! And it is that crazy HP that allows gal and amarr scouts to reach the extreme tanking levels you are seeing. If armor plates gave less HP than they do now, base eHP would have much more of an impact on tanking abilities and medium frames would once again be in a better place.
However, this still doesn't address the fact that there is scarcely a better fittings tactic in this game other than brick tanking.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
872
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:The only problem is with armor plating providing such massive HP at comparably little fittings costs.
Complex shield extender = 72.6hp (including skill buff) 36 CPU 16 PG Complex armor plate = 148.5hp (including skill buff) 54 CPU 11 PG
So for 33% less CPU and 45% more PG you get over 200% more HP.
That's insane! And it is that crazy HP that allows gal and amarr scouts to reach the extreme tanking levels you are seeing. If armor plates gave less HP than they do now, base eHP would have much more of an impact on tanking abilities and medium frames would once again be in a better place.
However, this still doesn't address the fact that there is scarcely a better fittings tactic in this game other than brick tanking.
I guess you get those CPU/PG ratings mixed up. Regarding the HP values I think they are fine on Proto, but lower tier shield extenders need a buff and the std plates maybe a small nerf.
Shield Do repair without a module at high speed that's the balancing factor between the hp values. So while armor tankers can stay longer in an actual fight (smart) shield user can come back a lot faster to the fight.
The problem is most shield users use them like armor in the expectation to outlive armor tankers in direct engagements... |
m621 zma
Seraphim Initiative..
102
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:because currently Scouts can tank just as much if not more than Assaults.
Each racial assault suit can tank more than it's racial scout Each racial logi can tank almost 2x the ehp of it's racial scout Each racial heavy can tank more than it's racial logi.
And of course, Gal are the EHP winners |
xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
185
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Posted - 2014.04.02 15:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
First of Amarr are HP winners in scout world, gal scout can get 993 HP no logi can get nearly 2000hp
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
1.8 is going to be Heavy 514 they said... Looking around all I see are twig men
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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad.
417
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Posted - 2014.04.02 15:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
dont think this will ever go ahead, as CCP is trying to figure out how to increase TTK
Just read the damn thread
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VikingCheech iBUN
Third Rock From The Sun
37
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Posted - 2014.04.02 16:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
they may as well just nerf everything? shields are weak enough we dont need anything worse to happen |
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