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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1382
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
As my ISP has yet to shut me off for some unknown (but much appreciated) reason, I thought I'd ask this again now that it's been 6-8 months since I last asked:
Quote:Drone infestations... that means they are a danger to something... does that mean our districts will have to have members dedicated to pest control to prevent our defenses from being weakened? Because that would mean every corp would either have to maintain a certain level of PvE players, or hire other corps to come in and handle pest control.... which, if the proper mechanics were implemented, could also be used to ambush them when they are not paying attention and sabotage their operations. Possibly set bombs or traps to damage their structures, installations, vehicles, etc. during the next attack on that district to aid the attackers... that would be WICKED! Total subterfuge!
Every planet that has no previous occupants would have to be cleared via PvE before you could build in that district. Then, you would have to keep up with the pest control or the drones could eventually destroy things you build in a district, thereby weakening your defenses if you were to be attacked. I also think it would be cool if you attack a poorly kept district if the drones would help the attackers during battle.
So, will PvE effect PvP CCP?
TL;DR: When PvE is implemented, will it be a part of maintaining districts in PC or FW? Or will it be it's own subsection of the game?
MAG ~ Raven
I GÖú puppies.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1336
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Having PvE negatively impact PC and FW would be a positive thing. It would force the PvE and PvP communities to intermingle which is good for the overall health of the game.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2345
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think there is capacity for both.
Public Matches clearing infestations for NPC Corps and the like. This would stop FW being effected as it would rather hard to balance. As for PC districts, yes drone infestations would be a big thing, unless they were kept in check bh a third party.
1) You can't deploy your own troops to the infestation due to your local tacnet being hacked by the drone commamder 2) Subterfuge is limited to the type of facility on that Map Gùå Production Facility: Steal upto 3 Clone Packs(total) from anything connected to the map (including that map) Gùå Storage Facility: Steal ISK from Corp Wallet Gùå Mining Facility: Steal Materials from Corp Gùå Research Facility: Steal Blueprints from Corp Gùå Space Dock Facility (POCO + Space Elevator): Steal Ships/Weapons from Corp / Add Cyphon Tax to POCO Gùå Armoury: Steal Suits/Weapons from Corp / Add Cyphon Tax to Mercs operating in Area Gùå Command Center: Disable Tacnet for any 1 connected map (reinforcement clones disabled both to and from district, drone infestation chance higher for next 24 hrs) 3) In order to Complete subterfuge you must hack 4 terminals located somewhere on the 5x5 km map. 4) The Drone Infestation will be contained within a 3x3 km section that does not contain the subterfuge terminals. 5) Drone Infestation missions will have a time limit of 20 mins
6) Infested Districts cannot provide reinforcements to adjacent districts under attack. 7) Clones, Materials, Blueprints, Weapons or any other resources cannot be transported through infested districts. 8) Drone Infestations will stop any production of resources from infested districts. 9) Drone Infestations will slowly Cyphon resources from storage facilities. 10) Skyfire Installations cannot be operated from infested districts.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1896
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Having PvE negatively impact PC and FW would be a positive thing. It would force the PvE and PvP communities to intermingle which is good for the overall health of the game. Agree strongly - this kind of implementation is PvE that serves social engagement and story-building. Even if a PvE merc never speaks to his PvP issuers of DMCs(Drome Maintenance Contracts), they establish a non-verbal dialog based on reputation, results, fair play, etc.
PvE as done in EVE is an example of a poor implementation, and effectively serves to segregate playstyles in the game. I think this is why some peeps, myself included, are nervous when PvE for DUST is proposed: it could be so good for the game, but could also be so destructive for teh game. Given CCP's track record so far with DUST's development, it's understandable peeps are worried.
Lastly, the first scenario above, with integrative, collaborative network-building PvE is utterly dependent on another mechanic we do not have in game yet: a contract system. This is a big job, since the system need to be feature-rich and flexible for merc contracts and also dovetail seamlesly and energistically into EVE's contract system. Imo it's the single most important feature for DUST. Parts of EVE would have to be modified or more likely rewritten.
If i was in Rouge's position, this is what i would have had team True Grit for the past several months. Perhaps even before the market, because a full-featured contract system can effectively replace a market, albeit with a lot of friction. Without a New Eden-spanning contract system, DUST will be limited in the level of social connectivity the non-immersion breaking game mechanics can provide.
Another way to look at this is that getting contracts right will move some of the metagame from out-of-game to in-game. That is a powerful thing in a single-shard persistant universe, and really what New Eden was made for.
I support SP rollover.
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1382
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Posted - 2014.04.01 12:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Having PvE negatively impact PC and FW would be a positive thing. It would force the PvE and PvP communities to intermingle which is good for the overall health of the game. I agree. Not only does it open up a whole new way to play the game and promote interaction between the PvE and PvP sides of the game, it makes each side of it dependent on the other. It puts the two halves of the community who play the game in totally different ways together working for the same goal (or one working against the other if sabotage options are made available).
MAG ~ Raven
I GÖú puppies.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
2422
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Posted - 2014.04.01 13:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't see a point... Drone Infestations, unless they occurred extremely frequently would just get cleared out by the owning corporation. I mean they would literally have to spawn every 4 hours or so with high penalties if they weren't cleared within like an hour. Otherwise I don't see why my corp would need your corp to clear them out. We would just collect who was ever online pubbing anyways and go clear them out.
It would become content only available to owners of PC districts? Excluding a large portion of the player base? Or you mean, the drone infestation would essentially be a Level 1 or 2 mission that owners are forced to run a couple times per day?
All I see is that its either a headache or exclusive content. I really don't see how this would help the game at all, and it certainly wouldn't promote inter-corporation social interaction. |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2348
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Posted - 2014.04.01 13:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:I don't see a point... Drone Infestations, unless they occurred extremely frequently would just get cleared out by the owning corporation. I mean they would literally have to spawn every 4 hours or so with high penalties if they weren't cleared within like an hour. Otherwise I don't see why my corp would need your corp to clear them out. We would just collect who was ever online pubbing anyways and go clear them out.
It would become content only available to owners of PC districts? Excluding a large portion of the player base? Or you mean, the drone infestation would essentially be a Level 1 or 2 mission that owners are forced to run a couple times per day?
All I see is that its either a headache or exclusive content. I really don't see how this would help the game at all, and it certainly wouldn't promote inter-corporation social interaction.
My Scenario fixes that Due to a lack of tacnet, your corp will be unable to deal with the infestations themselves. This at the very least will require assistance from another corp insode your alliance. This would then facilitate the creation of Corps specialised in infestation removal. These Corps would then earn reputations and be hired by other alliances. Just like some people are hired to participate in PC battles.
I would expect low-level infestations to be rather frequent once or twice a week, only infects one district at a time, relatively simple to clear out. Enough to mean you can't abuse the the benifits from PC quite as much.
But you would also get serious infestations that could infest upto 6 adjacent districts. Some low-level, some much more serious. These would probably happen at least once a month. It would also require swift action as infestations can grow, you would need to hire multiple corps to deal with the threat, lest your planet be entirely overun by the infestation.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
2422
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Posted - 2014.04.01 13:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:I don't see a point... Drone Infestations, unless they occurred extremely frequently would just get cleared out by the owning corporation. I mean they would literally have to spawn every 4 hours or so with high penalties if they weren't cleared within like an hour. Otherwise I don't see why my corp would need your corp to clear them out. We would just collect who was ever online pubbing anyways and go clear them out.
It would become content only available to owners of PC districts? Excluding a large portion of the player base? Or you mean, the drone infestation would essentially be a Level 1 or 2 mission that owners are forced to run a couple times per day?
All I see is that its either a headache or exclusive content. I really don't see how this would help the game at all, and it certainly wouldn't promote inter-corporation social interaction. My Scenario fixes that Due to a lack of tacnet, your corp will be unable to deal with the infestations themselves. This at the very least will require assistance from another corp insode your alliance. This would then facilitate the creation of Corps specialised in infestation removal. These Corps would then earn reputations and be hired by other alliances. Just like some people are hired to participate in PC battles. I would expect low-level infestations to be rather frequent once or twice a week, only infects one district at a time, relatively simple to clear out. Enough to mean you can't abuse the the benifits from PC quite as much. But you would also get serious infestations that could infest upto 6 adjacent districts. Some low-level, some much more serious. These would probably happen at least once a month. It would also require swift action as infestations can grow, you would need to hire multiple corps to deal with the threat, lest your planet be entirely overun by the infestation.
Just sounds like more headaches then... Certainly doesn't require a corporation dedication to it. Your alliance just takes each others districts and wonder why CCP made it so you can't go on your own district but someone else can.
Just sounds like PC starts spawning free SP as well as ISK. How long would these infestations take to clear out? 12-14 hours or so? (Of continuous playtime with 16 people)
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1897
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Posted - 2014.04.01 13:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:I don't see a point... Drone Infestations, unless they occurred extremely frequently would just get cleared out by the owning corporation. I mean they would literally have to spawn every 4 hours or so with high penalties if they weren't cleared within like an hour. Otherwise I don't see why my corp would need your corp to clear them out. We would just collect who was ever online pubbing anyways and go clear them out.
It would become content only available to owners of PC districts? Excluding a large portion of the player base? Or you mean, the drone infestation would essentially be a Level 1 or 2 mission that owners are forced to run a couple times per day?
All I see is that its either a headache or exclusive content. I really don't see how this would help the game at all, and it certainly wouldn't promote inter-corporation social interaction. For a corp that holds only a single district i agree with you 100%.
What i want to see is a drone infestation mechanic that scales geometrically with # of districts held & amount of infrastucture development(not even a variable now, i know). Maybe this would apply to adjacent districts only, not sure right now tbh.
So what we'd get is that if a corp is holding 4 districts, defense contracts are 16 times more frequent/harder than when they held only one. The effect of an unfilled Drone contract would be to 'damage' the district and reduce profit and incur a repair expense.
If a corp is strong enough to take and hold districts their players are prolly going to be needed primarily for District PvP defense contracts - if you're using them to mop up drones you're going to burn them out or be forced to use your b-team when trouble comes knocking.
A well-done Drone infestation mechanic and corresponding contracct system does several important things for DUST, one of which is act as a negative feedback system for the blue donut. Together with what it will mean for EVE/DUST integration it is the most important mechanic in the game, imo.
I support SP rollover.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
2422
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Posted - 2014.04.01 13:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:What i want to see is a drone infestation mechanic that scales geometrically with # of districts held & amount of infrastucture development(not even a variable now, i know). Maybe this would apply to adjacent districts only, not sure right now tbh.
So what we'd get is that if a corp is holding 4 districts, defense contracts are 16 times more frequent/harder than when they held only one. The effect of an unfilled Drone contract would be to 'damage' the district and reduce profit and incur a repair expense.
All I see here is that owning x+1 districts is exponentially more difficult than owning x districts. This is a mechanic that I've been against since day 1... and is present in the current PC with a lack of a frontline mechanic. It makes PC largely irrelevant just like the current system. With a system like you propose, there would be no incentive to take more districts, and you would just hold 3-4 districts and that's it. You would take district defenses as they come and otherwise you would never bother attacking other than 'just for fun' as you don't have the resources to hold more districts. This is the same reason why the now-DNS alliance was able to take MH. No incentive to hold districts for most corps and no incentive to go after more.
No, I'm sorry guys. I think this whole thread is just a bunch of terrible ideas. Leave PC as a PvP focused game mode. No need for drones. |
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2348
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Posted - 2014.04.01 13:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:I don't see a point... Drone Infestations, unless they occurred extremely frequently would just get cleared out by the owning corporation. I mean they would literally have to spawn every 4 hours or so with high penalties if they weren't cleared within like an hour. Otherwise I don't see why my corp would need your corp to clear them out. We would just collect who was ever online pubbing anyways and go clear them out.
It would become content only available to owners of PC districts? Excluding a large portion of the player base? Or you mean, the drone infestation would essentially be a Level 1 or 2 mission that owners are forced to run a couple times per day?
All I see is that its either a headache or exclusive content. I really don't see how this would help the game at all, and it certainly wouldn't promote inter-corporation social interaction. My Scenario fixes that Due to a lack of tacnet, your corp will be unable to deal with the infestations themselves. This at the very least will require assistance from another corp insode your alliance. This would then facilitate the creation of Corps specialised in infestation removal. These Corps would then earn reputations and be hired by other alliances. Just like some people are hired to participate in PC battles. I would expect low-level infestations to be rather frequent once or twice a week, only infects one district at a time, relatively simple to clear out. Enough to mean you can't abuse the the benifits from PC quite as much. But you would also get serious infestations that could infest upto 6 adjacent districts. Some low-level, some much more serious. These would probably happen at least once a month. It would also require swift action as infestations can grow, you would need to hire multiple corps to deal with the threat, lest your planet be entirely overun by the infestation. Just sounds like more headaches then... Certainly doesn't require a corporation dedication to it. Your alliance just takes each others districts and wonder why CCP made it so you can't go on your own district but someone else can. Just sounds like PC starts spawning free SP as well as ISK. How long would these infestations take to clear out? 12-14 hours or so? (Of continuous playtime with 16 people)
Low levels infestations 3-4 16man matches. High level infestations 15+ 16man matches. PC locking already generates free SP, turn up don't fight FREE sp.
Yes it would be a lot more of a headache, but it would also be alot more rewarding. In my scenario I have included new ground based facilities that allow EvE players to reap benifits from dust.
While Some Alliances wil indeed just use already exsisting corps. Others will do as I have suggested for whatever reasons they feel like. That's why there are coperations in EvE that are almost ALL miners or Pirates or Escorts etc.
As I said your tacnet frequency has been hacked by the drone hives. This means they can physically stop your corp from deploying. They don't however have the frequencies of the other corps in your Alliance.
The thing is there are 2 ways PC can go. We can stay similar to what we have now. The top 5% of the community scrabbling over free Isk, with EvE playersonot giving a Monkey's Arse. Or we can make it as far reaching as possible, so that entire EvE Alliances are scrabbling over these treasure troves, Dust players duking it out regularly and the effects of PC being more far reaching then ever.
Currently the only effect PC has on the majority of the players base is which Alliance is Pub-Stomping the most at any given time.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2348
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Posted - 2014.04.01 14:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:What i want to see is a drone infestation mechanic that scales geometrically with # of districts held & amount of infrastucture development(not even a variable now, i know). Maybe this would apply to adjacent districts only, not sure right now tbh.
So what we'd get is that if a corp is holding 4 districts, defense contracts are 16 times more frequent/harder than when they held only one. The effect of an unfilled Drone contract would be to 'damage' the district and reduce profit and incur a repair expense. All I see here is that owning x+1 districts is exponentially more difficult than owning x districts. This is a mechanic that I've been against since day 1... and is present in the current PC with a lack of a frontline mechanic. It makes PC largely irrelevant just like the current system. With a system like you propose, there would be no incentive to take more districts, and you would just hold 3-4 districts and that's it. You would take district defenses as they come and otherwise you would never bother attacking other than 'just for fun' as you don't have the resources to hold more districts. This is the same reason why the now-DNS alliance was able to take MH. No incentive to hold districts for most corps and no incentive to go after more. No, I'm sorry guys. I think this whole thread is just a bunch of terrible ideas. Leave PC as a PvP focused game mode. No need for drones.
If owning more districts is not considerably harder then holding 1 district, you'd ge a monopoly very very quickly. How do you not see that. PC itself needs a rework anyway, there needs to be more focus on owning adjacemt districts.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
2422
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Posted - 2014.04.01 14:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:If owning more districts is not considerably harder then holding 1 district, you'd ge a monopoly very very quickly. How do you not see that. PC itself needs a rework anyway, there needs to be more focus on owning adjacemt districts.
Owning more districts should be organically more difficult, as you have more PvP to contend with. But if it becomes exponentially harder to hold more districts, the no one wants to participate with the level of difficulty required to hold one. It becomes more expensive to hold a district than the district is worth. That's why no one is in PC atm, except those skilled few who can win almost every match. But those couple corps got tired of fighting the same people every day and now it's more profitable to just blue up.
PC is totally broken, agreed. However, it's already slated for its next iteration sometime relatively soon from what blue posts are saying.
I'm not against some sort of persistence with PvE, I think a lot of the ideas in here are great on their own, I just don't think they have a place in PC at all. I think eve side, having PI affected by drones, where eve players could spawn contracts is a great idea for example. Maybe PC 2.0 or 3.0 will have a means to better integrate PvE but certainly not PC 1.0. |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2348
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Posted - 2014.04.01 14:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:If owning more districts is not considerably harder then holding 1 district, you'd ge a monopoly very very quickly. How do you not see that. PC itself needs a rework anyway, there needs to be more focus on owning adjacemt districts. Owning more districts should be organically more difficult, as you have more PvP to contend with. But if it becomes exponentially harder to hold more districts, the no one wants to participate with the level of difficulty required to hold one. It becomes more expensive to hold a district than the district is worth. That's why no one is in PC atm, except those skilled few who can win almost every match. But those couple corps got tired of fighting the same people every day and now it's more profitable to just blue up. PC is totally broken, agreed. However, it's already slated for its next iteration sometime relatively soon from what blue posts are saying. I'm not against some sort of persistence with PvE, I think a lot of the ideas in here are great on their own, I just don't think they have a place in PC at all. I think eve side, having PI affected by drones, where eve players could spawn contracts is a great idea for example. Maybe PC 2.0 or 3.0 will have a means to better integrate PvE but certainly not PC 1.0.
Not PC 1.0 goodness no, we were crystalballing, at point where PC PvP is relatively balanced. To implement the ideas discussed here, now, would be terrible, no doubt about it.
But the OP asked is there an opportunity for PvE to effect PC in the future and their is, but not with current mechanics.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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1pawn dust
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
71
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Posted - 2014.04.01 14:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
lets get a PvE mode up thats like ambush but filled with bots on the other side and have them give a standing towards a faction before integration gets out of control |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
1898
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Posted - 2014.04.01 14:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
@ZDub: Definitely agree with you on the lack of a frontline mechanic, due to the terrible game design choice CCP made in introducing and then sticking with the Genolution packs and their ablility to tellepost mercs accross the universe at no cost.
It's a game destroying mechanic that neuters strategy and tactics and reduces the interesting topology of Molden Heath to a pablum that's been spoon-fed to the blue donut. The genolution pack is the primary reason PC is soooo uninteresting atm and is not interfacing with the entire DUST community.
But it's also a separate issue from the district maintenance drone mechanic we're talking about here.
I support SP rollover.
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