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Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
3
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Posted - 2014.03.31 05:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
As a sentinel I found I am most effective standing by an objective and defending it. However at the end of the match I will get some kills a few assist and a couple of deaths and get only a handful of isk and warpoints. I think this is a bit of injustice and should be changed. Me and my mate Ulaenyth thought of this idea:
- Passive Warpoint Gain Around TAKEN Objectives:
If you are defending an objective you should be given 5WP per missile launch from that specific Null Cannon. The low amount of warpoints gained from defending will stop people from abusing it to gain orbitals faster while giving defenders a chance to gain warpoints for their squad. These should still apply when a Hack/CounterHack is occuring.
To explain more: If someone Hack's an objective, their team (near the hacked objective) gains the chance to get the points for defending. If an ally starts to counterhack, the warpoint gain remains with the team currently holding the objective.
- More Warpoints For Killing Near a TAKEN objective
If you get a kill currently it is 50WP, if you are following a defense order from the squad leader it is 60WP. I would say give us an extra 5WP per kill. My reasoning behind this is that there are times where I would defend an objective and maybe only one or two people would rush it.
Now a lot of you are probally thinking 'Stop QQing and go fight you fatty!' but there are times when a sentinel is EXTREMELY vulnerable. One such time is if we are rushing in an open field. HMGs (a very common weapon for sentinels) have very low range. If we were to rush across an open field we would get mowed down by Rail Rifles, Scrambler Rifles, and other long range weapons. And seeing as we are slow (only exception being the Minmatar Sentinel) we cannot run for cover as quickly as an assault, logi, or any other suit.
I do understand people may try to abuse this to farm more SP and ISK (heres looking at the guys working out their glutes with their squats) however if somone is rushing an objective and see someone squating constantly, most would see him/her as an easy kill.
I also think there should be some for logis and their equipment but I'm a bit to lazy to calculate it so it would be balanced |
Faunher
Ivory Vanguard
149
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Posted - 2014.03.31 05:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is a great idea, but maybe not passively. Defender points would be good if you are getting kills while near an objective you are in control of.
There needs to be more ways to gain points that encourages more dynamic game play. For instance suppression assist points and a suppression mechanic would be a wonderful addition that would allow for more tactical actions. Increased warpoints for repairing vehicles would also be interesting, and would encourage the integration of engineer-esque gameplay. |
Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2014.03.31 05:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
-1
We have already defending points by killing something close to the defend order from the squad leader. No need for extra defend bonus. |
Faunher
Ivory Vanguard
150
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Posted - 2014.03.31 05:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:-1
We have already defending points by killing something close to the defend order from the squad leader. No need for extra defend bonus.
That is more of a faulty mechanic more than anything. The points given for that should be reduced, if not entirely negated.
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Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
4
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Posted - 2014.03.31 05:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:-1
We have already defending points by killing something close to the defend order from the squad leader. No need for extra defend bonus.
I already mentioned the gain from squad orders, but what I'm getting at is that sometimes the guy with the defend order goes away from where I would be defending and when the happens I do not get the extra 10% WP gain. Also what if someone is running solo? They won't be getting WP gain from defense orders.
Yes the Squad Leader could place the defend order on an Objective, but what if the squad isnt around the objective? I know only stupid people leave the area/person that has the order however in Skirmishes I found it best to have a couple defending and the rest assaulting. This WP gain is for those left behind to defend an objective with no squad order.
For a domination however I do believe that this won't work, it is more intended for Skirmishes. |
Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2014.03.31 06:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
You can run small squads with more defend orders using team chat. I am against any suggestion pro solo playing !!! |
Faunher
Ivory Vanguard
151
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Posted - 2014.03.31 06:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:You can run small squads with more defend orders using team chat. I am against any suggestion pro solo playing !!!
Saying you are against a style of play does not make that style of play disappear. People are going to play solo and changes made to the game are going to have to take that into account. |
Ulaenyth Yama
Mors Effera
1
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Posted - 2014.03.31 06:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
When I am going in for a quick few games for an hour or so I wont be squaded up unless there is a slim chance someone I know is on and quickly grabs me to squad with them.
The idea behind this is to encourage objective play outside of squads and with no reason for defending a point after the capture people walk off to go hunt for kills. With this and a small passive gain for actively defending an objective being in the area, without using any examples there are other games out there that do reward points for defenders.
The problem without rewarding defense is that this current system encourages you to go hunt for kills which is all well and good for those that like to play like that but to often I will get in a game go with a group to an objective cap it and everyone runs to find the next area and kill leaving objects open for free which is counter intuitive to the design of this game style.
By putting in a small passive point gain for those active players (CCP start banning people that have 1000 squats in games :p) who are willing to spend time protecting these points, something as simple as 5 points a minute of defending an area 15 extra points for killing attackers in return people killing defenders on an objective get 15 points as well to encourage attacking the objectives on the map. And to balance this out if a squad has a defense order in the area they receive a smaller bonus but enough to equal it to being a slight warpoint advantage for squads under the defense order.
Of course everything is up for change and you could also include a point bonus for assists and killing vehicles in the areas.
TL/DR lets encourage more objective play in objective game modes and reward objective minded players for actively defending and attacking defended points |
Tonka Legacy
POISION ROSES
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
74
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Posted - 2014.03.31 07:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
This will also keep people from straying miles away from the objective instead of protecting. Im looking at you leprechauns with your cloaks and shotguns thinking you can take on the world.
Sentinel: I am heavy weapons guy...
Commando: I got a RR and a CR, Im so good.
Logi: In it 4 the points and points only.
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2014.03.31 07:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Faunher wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:You can run small squads with more defend orders using team chat. I am against any suggestion pro solo playing !!! Saying you are against a style of play does not make that style of play disappear. People are going to play solo and changes made to the game are going to have to take that into account.
I never said i don't do it my self.
But i am against encouraging solo playing.
I believe CCP has the same opinion on this. |
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Ulaenyth Yama
Mors Effera
1
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Posted - 2014.03.31 08:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:Faunher wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:You can run small squads with more defend orders using team chat. I am against any suggestion pro solo playing !!! Saying you are against a style of play does not make that style of play disappear. People are going to play solo and changes made to the game are going to have to take that into account. I never said i don't do it my self. But i am against encouraging solo playing. I believe CCP has the same opinion on this.
Even in squad play this would still benefit people when it comes to more then one objective and you don't have a squad order on the objective your protecting. This is to encourage everyone to play the objectives more looking at those squads that just fly around in an assault dropship all game not actual going for objectives just killing whatever they can.
Anyway there should be something for those of us that have limited time and jump on when we can to get a few quick games under our belt before going off to whatever our day has in for us.
The current system doesn't promote any objective play and the people who are playing the objective get no reward for it outside of being in a squad, you want to go with a pub squad if your playing at weird times and your friends are not online, half the time the SL doesn't put down any orders, so why do I want to spend time trying to find a semi decent squad for maybe 5 games.
Overall objective modes need rewards for objective play otherwise you get the people that cap then go kill hunting and taking away from the point of there being an objective in the first place.
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2014.03.31 08:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sorry man but you are wrong. Who are you to deside whos defending the objective better??? A sniper 200meters away can guard the objectiv. A assault squad 50meters away from the objective can stop any enemie before he gets there.
NOT calling in a vehicle or NOT Being mobile should NOT be rewarded !!! |
Ulaenyth Yama
Mors Effera
1
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Posted - 2014.03.31 09:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:Sorry man but you are wrong. Who are you to deside whos defending the objective better??? A sniper 200meters away can guard the objectiv. A assault squad 50meters away from the objective can stop any enemie before he gets there.
NOT calling in a vehicle or NOT Being mobile should NOT be rewarded !!!
They are being rewarded for there kills and if they are out there assaulting other objectives as well I have covered that and said they should get rewards for killing defenders. What about the guys in that area stopping the cloaked scouts or the people the assault squads and snipers miss the further from the objective the more paths that can be taken to get around these people while the people on the objective are standing there being vigilant in maxing sure the few that get through can not cap this objective while those out there attacking are doing there thing.
I have not decided anything and I even propose rewards for people out there attacking objectives and yea if your between objectives and killing people cool I like that but your not taking time to stand around an area making sure it doesn't get taken or wasting suit after suit trying to wear down the enemies defending an objective we are. And people should be rewarded equally for there participation the people that defend and attack objectives should be rewarded for there time spent doing so while the people not playing objectives and roaming around getting kills are already getting rewarded because they have a higher average warpoint gain especially then that of a defender, also on the note of attacking an objective the rewards should probably be slightly lower then that of defending just because most people on the attack are getting higher average kills in the first place.
I don't know who you have watched defend an objective but I am always moving around the area of the objective checking every line of sight I can for possible approach and providing suppressing fire as people approach the objective.
Everything said here is purely theory and just an idea two people talked about while playing that we wanted to share with other people. Also on a side note if a snipe 200k away killed a target within the set area for defending they would still get rewarded for the defending kill even though there not in the area there action is still a defensive one.
End of the day this is all about objective play and encouragement for playing the objective not for lone wolfing it but for working on what the game type is about taking cannons and destroying the other teams MCC while still defending your own. |
Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
7
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Posted - 2014.03.31 11:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:Sorry man but you are wrong. Who are you to deside whos defending the objective better??? A sniper 200meters away can guard the objectiv. A assault squad 50meters away from the objective can stop any enemie before he gets there.
NOT calling in a vehicle or NOT Being mobile should NOT be rewarded !!!
A sniper 200meters away cannot see what is going on inside a building or around a corner, where most the objectives are. An assault squad may stop a few men from a distance however they cannot see all side and are usually assault another objective.
What we are trying to say is that those of us who do not leave an objective to attack another deserve more points as they don't seek kills and are usually stationary but still participating. We stay behind and get way less warpoints. And because of that, the held objective in the game is usually left ungaurded (possibly you may have a few remote explosives which would be cleared out by a flux grenade).
We are not asking to hand out free isk to afkers and people who do not move, however there should be some given to those who defend.
This game is won by attacking AND defending, if you do not defend you lose, if you do not attack you lose so defenders need more WP in order to make the game more dynamic as it will force people to defend their rear flank while assaulting the enemy. |
Ulaenyth Yama
Mors Effera
2
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Posted - 2014.03.31 12:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
In the end something like this would be just a quality of life improvement for those of us who choose to protect objectives.
I doubt it would be more then maybe an extra 100 points or so in most of the dom maps and in the smaller maps the reward would be less especially in the one node maps. It would just grant a bit more isk and sp gain for those that are active in objective play and provide positive reinforcement for playing the objectives.
Because right now there is no real reason to defend the points after capture when the action is not near the point. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
423
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
+1 anything to increase the way to get WP in this game - actually get the FPS to play like an FPS - other than farming the crap by being a logi to use the equipment slots and maximise WP.
the way WP are earned needs a total overhaul |
Tonka Legacy
POISION ROSES
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
76
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
maybe I would be BS-ing for saying this, but instead of people who are protecting getting the bonus, how about getting a 10 point bonus for killing someone in the process of hacking an objective?
Sentinel: I am heavy weapons guy...
Commando: I got a RR and a CR, Im so good.
Logi: In it 4 the points and points only.
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Hecarim Van Hohen
842
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Point defense is always overlooked in terms of rewards / recognition
If God had wanted you to live, he would not have created me!
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Ulaenyth Yama
Mors Effera
2
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tonka Legacy wrote:maybe I would be BS-ing for saying this, but instead of people who are protecting getting the bonus, how about getting a 10 point bonus for killing someone in the process of hacking an objective?
Hey a bonus for killing someone in the middle of the hack would be and awesome little addition to what we have going here |
Ulaenyth Yama
Mors Effera
2
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Posted - 2014.03.31 13:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Point defense is always overlooked in terms of rewards / recognition
It is way to over looked and it really takes away from things I had a game that I was really happy about because it was a perfect defense sure I was only like 5/10/3 but no one got past me to the objective. But because I didn't have a large amount of warpoints I got a 60k isk reward that really deflated the feeling I had from that game and barely payed for the suits I lost defending. |
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