DUST Search - The Problem with Assault Dropships

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

Hakyou Brutor wrote:

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

A story, nice as it is, is a useless tool for balance. The numbers do not back up your stated facts. Come back with actual evidence and then we can talk.

By actual evidence you mean numbers or visual evidence? I can't do visual and I can't be bothered to do numbers.
Anyone who has tried to tank in a PC vs Snugglz knows this is the case with the assault dropships.

If you can't be bothered to do numbers when you think there is a problem with the game then why should we listen to you at all? Turns out, luckily for you, that I care more than you do. So I'll do what you should be doing.

Well you say two proto assaults failed. Their alpha will kill any ads. So either you are mistaken, exaggerating or there is a bug with those players forges. The story goes against the math. So it loses credibility. Was the ads hardened? Did the forge have damage mods? What where their skill levels in terms of SP spend.

When a story goes against known facts, more is needed. Also the plural of anecdote is not evidence. I'll ask snuggles his PC build and see if what you say is realistic. I'll also test forge damage against an ads and see if the numbers expected pop up. If there are issues I will find and report them. But a tale is just not enough to act on.


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Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 142	Posted - 2014.03.30 13:49:00 - [1] - Quote Now, before you read this know I have had many experiences with Assault Dropships, I have flown them, I have forged them, I have railed them, and I have tried to swarms them. Also know that I have been in way to many PCs against TeamPlayers and Escrow Removal and Acquisition for you to try to argue that they are even remotely underpowered. First of all, I personally think that assault dropships should be glass cannons, they do good DPS but they can be easily taken out by a maxed skill forge gunner when a single mistake is made on the pilots end. Right now, I do not see this. I am quite possibly one of the most clumsy dropship pilots in the, I can't even tell you how many times I've ran into buildings while trying to escape AV/Rails and even though I ran into the building I still got away. I'm not saying I'm a bad pilot, I'm just a clumsy one, however, I should get punished for being as clumsy as I am. Second, I have been in many PCs against TeamPlayers and Escrow Removal and Acquisition where they brought in Sir Snugglz (best dropship pilot in the game), now yes, I know Sir Snugglz is maxed out in dropships, but does that mean we can't kill him with our maxed out forge guns, rail tanks, and lolSwarms? By nerfing the railgun range to 300 CCP has indirectly buffed the assault dropship greatly. Now, at any given moment an assault dropship can appear above you and there is absolutely no counter to that, no matter how far you move, how much you try to escape, they will find you, and they will kill you. Now, here is the part that needs looking at: I got two hits of on one of the assault dropships in a PC (I was in a rail tank, not in the redline). When I hit said dropship pilot with Particle Accelerator twice, he just flew up for 10 seconds, and next thing I know I'm getting pounded by an assault dropship. I activate my hardeners, I try to escape to the redline, but even with my hardeners on I was just getting shredded by this guy. While you may be thinking to yourself, oh, just get the redline and kill him from there, after all it is PC, all that matters is the win. However, this does not work because the railgun range is 300 meters now, and even if we do get a shot on them they just fly up and end up on top of the railtank, absolutely annihilating it. So you may say get some forgers to take them out, but this also, does not work! Due to assault dropship's great maneuverability and the fact they can take two people in sync shooting two maxed Ishukone Assault Forge gun rounds and still fly away, they now have no good counter! Except for of course you want to try to ram them, which is next to impossible judging on how easily I can avoid dropships ramming me when I'm piloting. Wow, sorry about that wall of text there. Here you go: TL;DR: Assault dropships take too much damage while still being able to get away, while they still have very high DPS. I'm a logi now! :D
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 142	Posted - 2014.03.30 13:58:00 - [2] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: A story, nice as it is, is a useless tool for balance. The numbers do not back up your stated facts. Come back with actual evidence and then we can talk. By actual evidence you mean numbers or visual evidence? I can't do visual and I can't be bothered to do numbers. Anyone who has tried to tank in a PC vs Snugglz knows this is the case. I'm a logi now! :D
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 143	Posted - 2014.03.30 14:09:00 - [3] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: This is Sir Snugglz. What's your QQ about? Are you butthurt that you can't sit in the redline and two shot Assault Dropships anymore? Is that what this is about? Obviously he's good, and he must be better than you if you can't shoot him out of the air with a RAIL TANK. Lol Not butthurt at all. I have massive respect for anyone who can pilot a dropship like Snugglz can. I'm a logi now! :D
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 143	Posted - 2014.03.30 14:16:00 - [4] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: I'm sorry buddy, but have you even flown Pythons in 1.8 yet? The hardeners not really viable anymore, swarms do more knockback damage, let alone direct damage. Forge guns (when they hit) hit hard and rails still wreck. The range cut on large railguns was absolutely necessary for the current map sizes. Dropships can be killed easily, if you're a good AV user. Just don't expect to solo a good pilot, that's probably the worst mistake you can make. I have flown a Python in 1.8. I can tell you forges are horrible broken, half the time they dont fire. and for swarms.. lol I'm a logi now! :D
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 147	Posted - 2014.03.30 18:28:00 - [5] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: A story, nice as it is, is a useless tool for balance. The numbers do not back up your stated facts. Come back with actual evidence and then we can talk. By actual evidence you mean numbers or visual evidence? I can't do visual and I can't be bothered to do numbers. Anyone who has tried to tank in a PC vs Snugglz knows this is the case with the assault dropships. If you can't be bothered to do numbers when you think there is a problem with the game then why should we listen to you at all? Turns out, luckily for you, that I care more than you do. So I'll do what you should be doing. Well you say two proto assaults failed. Their alpha will kill any ads. So either you are mistaken, exaggerating or there is a bug with those players forges. The story goes against the math. So it loses credibility. Was the ads hardened? Did the forge have damage mods? What where their skill levels in terms of SP spend. When a story goes against known facts, more is needed. Also the plural of anecdote is not evidence. I'll ask snuggles his PC build and see if what you say is realistic. I'll also test forge damage against an ads and see if the numbers expected pop up. If there are issues I will find and report them. But a tale is just not enough to act on. sighs Fine. This is the fit that Snugglz was using last night. Now with the fit you have 3244 shield, and 960 armor. The Particle Accelerator does 1668 per shot. So: 1668 x 2 = 3336 Two shots 3336 x 1.1 = 3669 Shield efficiency 3244 - 3669 = -425 When the shots landed. -425 x .9 = -382 Shield efficiency to control efficiency -382 x .9 = -344 Control efficiency to armor efficiency 960 - 344 = 615 How much armor he had left after I hit him twice with the railgun Happy? I'm a logi now! :D
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 148	Posted - 2014.03.30 19:03:00 - [6] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: I can't be bothered to do numbers. And there goes any possibility of me taking you seriously. If we're doing anecdotes, my second game after the hardener nerf, I two-shotted 3 different hardened ADSs (Pythons and a Incubus) with a rail tank. For the first time in months I've been threatened by swarms. Cal sentinels are uber defensive to missiles. Dropships are manageable, especially with all the new changes. Edit: Saw your post: why aren't you using a damage mod or proto rail? My damage mod was down, and I skilled primarily into proto missles for anti-tank. I'm a logi now! :D
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 148	Posted - 2014.03.30 19:55:00 - [7] - Quote GVGMODE wrote: Just stop using tanks and let infantry get beasted by ADS for a month or two, they do the QQ This doesn't really help much in PC =l I'm a logi now! :D
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 148	Posted - 2014.03.31 02:42:00 - [8] - Quote bump I'm a logi now! :D