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swarms are killing dropships again

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Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 414	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:05:00 - [31] - Quote 1pawn dust wrote: 50% shield dmg through hardener? I think somebody is drinking petrol. Now dont get me wrong, I think a light aircraft getting slammed by 6 missles should take next to no dmg either, but you could have just pulled up or engaged AB and be out of any kind of danger in roughly 0.75 seconds. yeah, and kill...0 enemies? :) after burners is for av, and even at that, mainly anti air. Just read the damn thread
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 414	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:06:00 - [32] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Saying Swarms shouldn't be a primary AV weapon is like saying people shouldn't be killing heavies with a pistol. Its Anti-Vehicle its job is to Counter Vehicles. Its light Anti-Vehicle not Anti-Light-Vehicle. However I have always believed Transport Vehicles (pure Transport, none of this Assault stuff) should have a higher Tank than other vehicles. But apparently CCP disagrees. do you think swarms should match forge guns? Just read the damn thread
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 414	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:09:00 - [33] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: They can kill dropships again, but you sure as hell can still outrun them. You can also still just climb to the ceiling and avoid lockon range pretty easily. Swarms need their lock on range increased to at least 200m, but at least I don't feel like I'm wasting a clone when I spawn AV anymore. Pilots are just used to being invincible the past 3 months, and now they can actually be taken out by things other than railtanks and forge guns. I would be really curious to hear from someone that runs plasma cannon on their gal commando.... well .. like i said i have no issue with being av'd. but the amount of damage swarms seem to be doing to my 2k shield, complex hardened python seems unreasonable. if we cant stay in the fight and need to flee av 24/7, dropships need more ways to earn wp to compensate .. Just read the damn thread
Symbioticforks Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 84	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:10:00 - [34] - Quote Swarms need a rather longer lock on range. I feel like I need to be point blank on anything I'm trying to lock onto. ^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 102	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:19:00 - [35] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Saying Swarms shouldn't be a primary AV weapon is like saying people shouldn't be killing heavies with a pistol. Its Anti-Vehicle its job is to Counter Vehicles. Its light Anti-Vehicle not Anti-Light-Vehicle. However I have always believed Transport Vehicles (pure Transport, none of this Assault stuff) should have a higher Tank than other vehicles. But apparently CCP disagrees. do you think swarms should match forge guns? They have half the range of Forge Guns, they can be outrun by Dropships (possibly LAV's with nitrous, haven't tested), they do significantly less damage to shields, they carry less ammo (in clip and total), they have far less burst damage (2 forges can time their shots to instagib just about anything). Swarms should be viable AV, and they are. They're still not as good as Forge Guns, but Forge Guns are bugged right now so... "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 250	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:20:00 - [36] - Quote @OP: Out of mild curiosity was this at the clone facility map? And the swarmer was a Cal Commando? And were you wearing an Amarr Logi suit? The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
LuckyLuke Wargan HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 323	Posted - 2014.03.30 22:53:00 - [37] - Quote nope, swarms still nerfed, saying it is back to 1.6 is plain ridiculous. prior 1.7> 330 damage per missile, unlimited lockon range... now 220 damage per missile, must be within 175 to get a lockon... you do the math, also I was a swarm proto specialist, now the swarm is near useless for me. Thanks tankers and fly boys for making my favorite role unplayable. Especially tankers. Tanks vs AV was perfect before 1.7 despite what those idiotic tanker were saying, it was already hard to kill a tank back then, but doable... not so much anymore. I did believe flyboys needed countermesures like a radar alert or something to help them dodge missiles, but the way CCP just simply nerfed AV stats, that was just the easy and lazy way out of that problem. "Cry HavoK!, and let slip the dogs of war!" -Badass Gallante Sentinel- I feed on tanker tears...
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7912	Posted - 2014.03.31 04:33:00 - [38] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Light AV is not supposed to be inferior to Heavy AV. Light AV - Hunting down vehicles Heavy AV - Defending locations from vehicles You are a genius! Did you make that up right on the spot? No, it's pretty obvious with how forges and swarms are designed. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
axINVICTUSxa BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 61	Posted - 2014.03.31 04:39:00 - [39] - Quote They don't need to nerf Swarms. They need to buff PCannons! I hate how my Nuke Tube has a maddening lack of power and travel speed. Its freaking Plasma, for goodness sake. Thats high energy stuff, and we all know high energy particles move faster than slow ones, huh, so how come troops are able to run away from PC blasts? If they even had the travel speed of Covenant tanks/artillery plasma hail I'd be dead happy. Jokes, I like the mechanic, makes you think and place your shots accordingly. However, they really need to Buff PC if its supposed to be an AV weapon. Otherwise, I'm fine melting faces with it. Very nice weapon. Even more fun when you sit in the corner, cloak, and wait for that commando or sentinel to climb down the stairs, put your back to you, then blast him with the PC. And if he still has health (which is rarely), rain down SMG fire :P I wallow in pools of blood and wash myself anew, I throw away my ugly self in order to become something beautiful...
Faunher Ivory Vanguard 149	Posted - 2014.03.31 05:07:00 - [40] - Quote axINVICTUSxa wrote: They don't need to nerf Swarms. They need to buff PCannons! I hate how my Nuke Tube has a maddening lack of power and travel speed. Its freaking Plasma, for goodness sake. Thats high energy stuff, and we all know high energy particles move faster than slow ones, huh, so how come troops are able to run away from PC blasts? If they even had the travel speed of Covenant tanks/artillery plasma hail I'd be dead happy. Jokes, I like the mechanic, makes you think and place your shots accordingly. However, they really need to Buff PC if its supposed to be an AV weapon. Otherwise, I'm fine melting faces with it. Very nice weapon. Even more fun when you sit in the corner, cloak, and wait for that commando or sentinel to climb down the stairs, put your back to you, then blast him with the PC. And if he still has health (which is rarely), rain down SMG fire :P I don't understand what they intend the plasma cannon to be haha. It's mechanics make it seem like it is an AV weapon (albeit a terrible one) yet it is described as something along the lines of "an urban, close-quarters weapon." If they want it to be AV, what they need to do is increase the projectile's speed tremendously and damage slightly, and decrease the projectile's arc. If they want it to be an anti-infantry weapon all they have to do is make the blast radius something larger than the current one, which is comparable to the width of a needle.

Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 57	Posted - 2014.03.31 07:44:00 - [41] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: i guess this is a good thing. only issue, is proto swarms are knocking out 50% of my shields through hardeners and then some. Im a little annoyed that people keep viewing swarms as a primary weapon for AV. Its a light weapon ... you can fit it to a cloaked scout. sure, they shouldnt be worthless and do no damage, but i think we over did it a little on the dropships here. partially blame that stupid hardener hotfix, but ive not done any of the maths so what can i say. also, Invisible swarms and 90* turns around buildings swarms have returned which lead me to believe the dreaded 1.6 swarms have been restored .. well .. fun being immortal while it lasted! :) AV killing vehicles? No?... never!!! Someone tell the devs to nerf that.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2599	Posted - 2014.03.31 08:06:00 - [42] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Django Quik wrote: I killed a python with swarms for the first time in months yesterday and was overjoyed - didn't even expect it! However, the fool was flying at about 30m altitude trying to gun down all the ground forces because no one was AVing. Swarms are still exactly the same as they were, so fly at 200m and unless the swarmer is right underneath you, he won't even be able to lock on. So fly higher then infantry will render is you response. Yep that's totally fair. I didn't mean always fly at 200m but it's pretty damn easy to get there in a hurry if you do start taking damage. Flying at 30m thinking you should be able to just tank an entire clip of swarms is going to get you killed. That makes perfect sense. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 768	Posted - 2014.03.31 08:13:00 - [43] - Quote The problem is, hardeners were changed to make HAV's less invulnerable, but they didn't analyse the cause and effect of applying this change to ALL vehicles - this seems to be a constant issue with them - if you change a module that everyone uses, it will have effects on everyone, even though you are only trying to balance a portion of those that use it. The logical solution would be to modify some game mechanic that affects HAV's directly.... but that doesn't affect other vehicles.
Kaminoikari DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 51	Posted - 2014.03.31 08:19:00 - [44] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: The problem is, hardeners were changed to make HAV's less invulnerable, but they didn't analyse the cause and effect of applying this change to ALL vehicles - this seems to be a constant issue with them - if you change a module that everyone uses, it will have effects on everyone, even though you are only trying to balance a portion of those that use it. The logical solution would be to modify some game mechanic that affects HAV's directly.... but that doesn't affect other vehicles. Sepearate hardeners for air and ground vehicle. Problem solved. Keep ground hardeners the same, make air hardeners what they were before the nerf.
rpastry The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 155	Posted - 2014.03.31 08:46:00 - [45] - Quote Kaminoikari wrote: Sepearate hardeners for air and ground vehicle. Problem solved. Keep ground hardeners the same, make air hardeners what they were before the nerf. NO before hardeners were nerfed a proto swarm running 2x complex damage mods (IE 120% dmg) would not even interrupt the shield regen of a hardened ADS. One volley would be almost fully repped before the next volley hit. Swarms have been absolutely USELESS for months. Now they work and OFC ADS pilots are QQing because they cant hover and pelt infantry with OP proto launchers all day long any more. About ******* time. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4717	Posted - 2014.03.31 09:08:00 - [46] - Quote rpastry wrote: Swarms have been absolutely USELESS for months. Now they work and OFC ADS pilots are QQing because they cant hover and pelt infantry with OP proto launchers all day long any more. About ******* time. Comments like this are a BIG part of the reason CCP suck at balancing things. Assault Dropship weapons aren't OP. The only thing that was OP was the fact that they had a single hardener giving them immunity to Swarms. Now that hardeners have been nerfed, those "OP" weapons aren't slaughtering infantry because the weapons weren't OP. If people like you keep saying things like this, CCP will nerf all vehicle weapons, the ADS bonus, and buff AV even more to somehow magically fix a problem that no longer exists.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 698	Posted - 2014.03.31 09:25:00 - [47] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: Im a little annoyed that people keep viewing swarms as a primary weapon for AV. Well, what do you want me to do with it? Thump it on people's heads? People view swarms as a primary weapon for AV because it's the sole weapon that can only be used for AV. em ta kool t'nod
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 552	Posted - 2014.03.31 09:28:00 - [48] - Quote i swear to god CCP you give Judge Rhadamanthus a community spotlight, then don't even listen to what he says B.D. Wong AKA Dr. Wu returns to Jurassic Park sequel
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1255	Posted - 2014.03.31 09:29:00 - [49] - Quote I wish there was a module that I could activate which would allow me to increase my speed to outrun the swarm missiles... oh wait!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4717	Posted - 2014.03.31 09:44:00 - [50] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: Im a little annoyed that people keep viewing swarms as a primary weapon for AV. Its a light weapon I'm surprised I managed to skim over this every time I've read the OP. I'm also more than a little annoyed to realise there's someone who doesn't view a Light weapon - which is treated as a primary weapon on EVERY suit type - as a primary weapon. The Commando is the only suit capable of carrying two weapons in the same class as a Swarm Launcher. It's specifically designed to have TWO PRIMARY WEAPONS. Light weapons are primary weapons, and SHOULD be competent in their intended role. As I've seen before, it's a "LIght anti-vehicle weapon" not an "anti-light vehicle weapon". It's not a Heavy weapon, so while it should be doing the same job as a Forge Gun, it should have limitations the Forge doesn't. Maybe they should have Swarms dealing a little less damage at a much shorter range... OH WAIT.

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2323	Posted - 2014.03.31 09:48:00 - [51] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Saying Swarms shouldn't be a primary AV weapon is like saying people shouldn't be killing heavies with a pistol. Its Anti-Vehicle its job is to Counter Vehicles. Its light Anti-Vehicle not Anti-Light-Vehicle. However I have always believed Transport Vehicles (pure Transport, none of this Assault stuff) should have a higher Tank than other vehicles. But apparently CCP disagrees. do you think swarms should match forge guns? They should be COMPARABLE the classification in size should not mean that swarms are useless by comparison to forges. They should provide a unique set of Pros and Cons, which with the right circumstances allows the swarms to surpass a forge gun. Like niche Infantry weapons. In the right hands a sidearm can surpass the effectiveness of a light weapon. There is no reason swarms can't do the same. Its also why I believe Plc should have the same direct damage as forge guns. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2608	Posted - 2014.03.31 10:09:00 - [52] - Quote Look, at the crux of the previous hardener issue was the ability to double them up and be virtually invulnerable. Nerfing them because of this means that it's pointless to ever run just one, further pushing every vehicle to fit 2. That's no way to balance. The way to fix the old dual hardener issue is to give stacking penalties beyond just slightly reducing the hardening of the 2nd module - something like % reduced regen per hardener, multiplying greatly for every extra hardener. So like stacking armor slows you down much more, stacking hardeners would also have a downside. I'm glad I can now kill things with my swarms but this was not the nerf I was hoping for. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5424	Posted - 2014.03.31 10:11:00 - [53] - Quote Light AV should be a pretty nice annoyance against medium and light Vehicles. Not so much for HAV though *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4722	Posted - 2014.03.31 10:14:00 - [54] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Light AV should be a pretty nice annoyance against medium and light Vehicles. Not so much for HAV though Explain why an anti-VEHICLE weapon should not be useful against a VEHICLE. Please?
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2100	Posted - 2014.03.31 10:14:00 - [55] - Quote BrownEye1129 wrote: Doctor Day wrote: FFS i just skilled into assault dropships FOTM last well, only a month Tanks lasted three and then some
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2324	Posted - 2014.03.31 11:12:00 - [56] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Light AV should be a pretty nice annoyance against medium and light Vehicles. Not so much for HAV though And Pistols shouldn't off heavies either. Damn when will these guys get it right eh? Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
The Shadow514 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 8	Posted - 2014.03.31 11:17:00 - [57] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: i guess this is a good thing. only issue, is proto swarms are knocking out 50% of my shields through hardeners and then some. Im a little annoyed that people keep viewing swarms as a primary weapon for AV. Its a light weapon ... you can fit it to a cloaked scout. sure, they shouldnt be worthless and do no damage, but i think we over did it a little on the dropships here. partially blame that stupid hardener hotfix, but ive not done any of the maths so what can i say. also, Invisible swarms and 90* turns around buildings swarms have returned which lead me to believe the dreaded 1.6 swarms have been restored .. well .. fun being immortal while it lasted! :) Well swarms are easy enough for you to avoid you can't expect to be invisible to swarms for ever and proto type swarms are THE best types of swarms so that much damage is to be expected as players have put alot of SP and time into it.
Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 408	Posted - 2014.03.31 11:26:00 - [58] - Quote Xaviah Reaper wrote: i guess this is a good thing. only issue, is proto swarms are knocking out 50% of my shields through hardeners and then some. Im a little annoyed that people keep viewing swarms as a primary weapon for AV. Its a light weapon ... you can fit it to a cloaked scout. sure, they shouldnt be worthless and do no damage, but i think we over did it a little on the dropships here. partially blame that stupid hardener hotfix, but ive not done any of the maths so what can i say. also, Invisible swarms and 90* turns around buildings swarms have returned which lead me to believe the dreaded 1.6 swarms have been restored .. well .. fun being immortal while it lasted! :) Anew i'm a little annoyed that derpship pilots seem to think that their derpships are supposed to be flying tanks when they clearly were never intendend to be that. Your derpships are MEDIUM vehicles, not heavy. You SHOULD be fragile enough for a swarm launcher to threaten you.
Sam Booty Valor Coalition Red Whines. 64	Posted - 2014.03.31 12:19:00 - [59] - Quote Kaminoikari wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: The problem is, hardeners were changed to make HAV's less invulnerable, but they didn't analyse the cause and effect of applying this change to ALL vehicles - this seems to be a constant issue with them - if you change a module that everyone uses, it will have effects on everyone, even though you are only trying to balance a portion of those that use it. The logical solution would be to modify some game mechanic that affects HAV's directly.... but that doesn't affect other vehicles. Sepearate hardeners for air and ground vehicle. Problem solved. Keep ground hardeners the same, make air hardeners what they were before the nerf. NO. Stop crying. You are not supposed to park your vehicle and kill infantry without risk. The hardeners nerf on all vehicles was essential. OP vehicles ruin the game for everyone. Like what others have said here, swarms have been useless for months. It is better that Dust 514 looses some derpship noobs than loosing thousands of other good players.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 404	Posted - 2014.03.31 12:53:00 - [60] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Now if only my plasma cannon could kill dropships, or tanks, or hit them in the first place. This.



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