DUST Search - How Do We Improve NPE!?

Michael Arck wrote:

Virtual Riot wrote:

Its gonna take a change of mindset

All the protostompers have to look past the here and now FOTM spambush tryhard kdr etc etc etc, and see that the future of this game ultimately depends on new players. I try and do my part by only running basic gear in pubs, I keep the proto to FW. But you have to get everybody to do that, or ccp has to implement a non squad, or basic gear only mode.

Just, try and be the change you want to see in the world.

New player experience is not new player training. Its two different things. New player experience is giving the newly recently born merc all the information he/she needs to make a complete dropsuit fitting, what are boosters, how to use your neocom, player controlled corporations, etc. But NPE is not training for building mercs into skillful players. That's tactical training which is entirely different than NPE. I think players get that so confused.

Plus, just to go along, why would you want to train a new merc by safeguarding him from the "protomeanies" in the game? If I'm a new merc, I want to see what I'm up against.

Even if a MLT only game mode was implemented, new mercs will still have trouble. We cannot exclude seasoned players who has skilled up their core skills. Who has months of tactical experience. Prototype or MLT, to a new merc is pretty much the same in that aspect. Does the new merc want to die to a tornado or a typhoon?

There are games I've played with NPE and it still doesn't mean crap when it comes to fighting against players who have been playing the game longer than I have. Skill is still skill, no matter the suit.

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Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 192	Posted - 2014.03.30 02:32:00 - [1] - Quote Today I helped out a very new player in local and managed to get him hooked. I taught him about the marketplace, went through almost every skill, and about the different races. We ran a quick skirm and showed him tanks, cloaks, installations, equipment, suits, and OBs(he really loved these). Anyways we are continuing tomorrow, and that got me thinking how can we improve NPE? I spent nearly an hour explaining everything and I felt that I raised more questions. Also how should I explain Dropsuit fitting without frying his brains. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3797	Posted - 2014.03.30 02:45:00 - [2] - Quote NPE will take a community effort. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Cinnamon267 119	Posted - 2014.03.30 02:46:00 - [3] - Quote Something like PVE will help ease them in. Not having to jump into the PVP aspect and get stomped will be nice for players. You need time to get used to this game and PVP only is a great way to ensure you won't spend time with it. Especially with proto stompers and the like. It's not going to work to rely on CCP for tutorials.. EVE's tutorials aren't great. But, it beneftis because you can do stuff in a safer PVE environment. Or a training room for corporations. Great way for Dust University to train people and get them used to the game.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 2087	Posted - 2014.03.30 02:46:00 - [4] - Quote Pve. People have time to train their core skills, then they'll be ready to battle. Or Tiericide. >Bastard I : "Cce me ne... futt! XD"
Virtual Riot Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 258	Posted - 2014.03.30 02:49:00 - [5] - Quote Its gonna take a change of mindset All the protostompers have to look past the here and now FOTM spambush tryhard kdr etc etc etc, and see that the future of this game ultimately depends on new players. I try and do my part by only running basic gear in pubs, I keep the proto to FW. But you have to get everybody to do that, or ccp has to implement a non squad, or basic gear only mode. Just, try and be the change you want to see in the world.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 1002	Posted - 2014.03.30 02:51:00 - [6] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: Its gonna take a change of mindset All the protostompers have to look past the here and now FOTM spambush tryhard kdr etc etc etc, and see that the future of this game ultimately depends on new players. I try and do my part by only running basic gear in pubs, I keep the proto to FW. But you have to get everybody to do that, or ccp has to implement a non squad, or basic gear only mode. Just, try and be the change you want to see in the world. Basic gear only mode... yeeesssss.. yesssssss Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Virtual Riot Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 258	Posted - 2014.03.30 02:51:00 - [7] - Quote oh and tell him that in regard to dropsuit fitting, in the begining just tank as much HP as you can, that'll keep him alive while he learns about the other nuiances of fitting.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3798	Posted - 2014.03.30 03:01:00 - [8] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: Its gonna take a change of mindset All the protostompers have to look past the here and now FOTM spambush tryhard kdr etc etc etc, and see that the future of this game ultimately depends on new players. I try and do my part by only running basic gear in pubs, I keep the proto to FW. But you have to get everybody to do that, or ccp has to implement a non squad, or basic gear only mode. Just, try and be the change you want to see in the world. New player experience is not new player training. Its two different things. New player experience is giving the newly recently born merc all the information he/she needs to make a complete dropsuit fitting, what are boosters, how to use your neocom, player controlled corporations, etc. But NPE is not training for building mercs into skillful players. That's tactical training which is entirely different than NPE. I think players get that so confused. Plus, just to go along, why would you want to train a new merc by safeguarding him from the "protomeanies" in the game? If I'm a new merc, I want to see what I'm up against. Even if a MLT only game mode was implemented, new mercs will still have trouble. We cannot exclude seasoned players who has skilled up their core skills. Who has months of tactical experience. Prototype or MLT, to a new merc is pretty much the same in that aspect. Does the new merc want to die to a tornado or a typhoon? There are games I've played with NPE and it still doesn't mean crap when it comes to fighting against players who have been playing the game longer than I have. Skill is still skill, no matter the suit. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 1002	Posted - 2014.03.30 03:07:00 - [9] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Virtual Riot wrote: Its gonna take a change of mindset All the protostompers have to look past the here and now FOTM spambush tryhard kdr etc etc etc, and see that the future of this game ultimately depends on new players. I try and do my part by only running basic gear in pubs, I keep the proto to FW. But you have to get everybody to do that, or ccp has to implement a non squad, or basic gear only mode. Just, try and be the change you want to see in the world. . We cannot exclude seasoned players who has skilled up their core skills. Who has months of tactical experience. Prototype or MLT, to a new merc is pretty much the same in that aspect. Does the new merc want to die to a tornado or a typhoon? My ebul plan exposed! I agree. I believe that a way to improve the new player experience would be to somehow force the new player to go through the tutorials, perhaps even have a short bootcamp that has them walk through the various parts of the interface. My experience with new players is that the ones I've been training or playing with skip through all of the text pop ups and dive straight into the game, and get slaughtered as soon as they depart the academy. So, improvements I propose: Forced Bootcamp for new accounts Dust 514 for idiots texts, "Shield extenders fit into your high slot, and increase your shield hit points" in every item. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 192	Posted - 2014.03.30 03:12:00 - [10] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Virtual Riot wrote: Its gonna take a change of mindset All the protostompers have to look past the here and now FOTM spambush tryhard kdr etc etc etc, and see that the future of this game ultimately depends on new players. I try and do my part by only running basic gear in pubs, I keep the proto to FW. But you have to get everybody to do that, or ccp has to implement a non squad, or basic gear only mode. Just, try and be the change you want to see in the world. . We cannot exclude seasoned players who has skilled up their core skills. Who has months of tactical experience. Prototype or MLT, to a new merc is pretty much the same in that aspect. Does the new merc want to die to a tornado or a typhoon? My ebul plan exposed! I agree. I believe that a way to improve the new player experience would be to somehow force the new player to go through the tutorials, perhaps even have a short bootcamp that has them walk through the various parts of the interface. My experience with new players is that the ones I've been training or playing with skip through all of the text pop ups and dive straight into the game, and get slaughtered as soon as they depart the academy. So, improvements I propose: Forced Bootcamp for new accounts Dust 514 for idiots texts, "Shield extenders fit into your high slot, and increase your shield hit points" in every item. Maybe even a quick 30 sec video on how to use weapons and equipment on the field, kind how they showcase weapons in the recent update release videos. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!

Far Fall DUST University Ivy League 35	Posted - 2014.03.30 03:21:00 - [11] - Quote Yes, skilled mercs will almost always beat new players regardless of whether or not they have higher tier gear. However, I still think that, as a player, knowing you were beaten by skill alone makes you feel less helpless than when you aren't sure whether you are simply being beaten by currently unattainable gear. People get destroyed by skilled players all the time in other fpses but still play them. I think a more refined version of the issue is this: new players are exposed to proto and skilled squads too soon, and more importantly the transition in opponent difficulty is not smooth. It's going straight from versing other noobs to people who will almost always beat you, and there is no in between. Anecdote: While it is true that someone who has never played piano can first learn piano by trying to play a complicated piece by Beethoven, the frustration would be far too high for most people and they would quit before they made significant progress.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 2090	Posted - 2014.03.30 03:25:00 - [12] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Virtual Riot wrote: Its gonna take a change of mindset All the protostompers have to look past the here and now FOTM spambush tryhard kdr etc etc etc, and see that the future of this game ultimately depends on new players. I try and do my part by only running basic gear in pubs, I keep the proto to FW. But you have to get everybody to do that, or ccp has to implement a non squad, or basic gear only mode. Just, try and be the change you want to see in the world. New player experience is not new player training. Its two different things. New player experience is giving the newly recently born merc all the information he/she needs to make a complete dropsuit fitting, what are boosters, how to use your neocom, player controlled corporations, etc. But NPE is not training for building mercs into skillful players. That's tactical training which is entirely different than NPE. I think players get that so confused. Plus, just to go along, why would you want to train a new merc by safeguarding him from the "protomeanies" in the game? If I'm a new merc, I want to see what I'm up against. Even if a MLT only game mode was implemented, new mercs will still have trouble. We cannot exclude seasoned players who has skilled up their core skills. Who has months of tactical experience. Prototype or MLT, to a new merc is pretty much the same in that aspect. Does the new merc want to die to a tornado or a typhoon? There are games I've played with NPE and it still doesn't mean crap when it comes to fighting against players who have been playing the game longer than I have. Skill is still skill, no matter the suit. Good point. Still solving this problem is like telling CCP "your game is broken on its fundaments and new players are leaving, fix it", which, in a way or another is a right statement imo. People use protos and better core skills, tanks and anything that would guarantee them the victory simply because... they don't want to die. Whether because of isk or merely because of kdr and "satisfaction" people do abuse camping, sniping, tanking, protostomping etc. The typical Dust514 "l33t" swap to Charge Sniper Rifle or, even worse, to Thale's TAR-07 as soon as they die once or as soon as they look at who's the enemy. What someone calls "situational awareness" is infact, camping with a long range weapon. This kind of behavior do hurt NPE, because new players will inevitably be stomped. What can we/you do? Absolutely nothing. As I already said, tiericide or NPE (better, both) would alleviate the problem. >Bastard I : "Cce me ne... futt! XD"
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3800	Posted - 2014.03.30 03:36:00 - [13] - Quote Far Fall wrote: I think a more refined version of the issue is this: new players are exposed to proto and skilled squads too soon, and more importantly the transition in opponent difficulty is not smooth. It's going straight from versing other noobs to people who will almost always beat you, and there is no in between. Well definitely agree that the "kitty's playhouse" to "saul's meatgrinder" transition is pretty brutal. It's like being thrown in ice cold water. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 462	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:18:00 - [14] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Tiericide. ^^^ . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
Black SlaverX Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:25:00 - [15] - Quote matchmaking thats all you have to do, matchmaking Watch your back because I might be there.
Aika Nakata Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:36:00 - [16] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: Today I helped out a very new player in local and managed to get him hooked. I taught him about the marketplace, went through almost every skill, and about the different races. We ran a quick skirm and showed him tanks, cloaks, installations, equipment, suits, and OBs(he really loved these). Anyways we are continuing tomorrow, and that got me thinking how can we improve NPE? I spent nearly an hour explaining everything and I felt that I raised more questions. Also how should I explain Dropsuit fitting without frying his brains. Good, you get to teach me tomorrow =p
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 160	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:37:00 - [17] - Quote Every time i see a new person i always tell them 1. Join a corp or a good channel 2.Squad up with said corp or people from a good channel Usually someone then jumps in from there and teaches the young Dustling.
Vell0cet Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 1332	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:37:00 - [18] - Quote Replace the existing academy with a story-based interactive tutorial with dark humor like in portal. Have them hack things use all weapons use different vehicles, equipment, cloaks etc. For example, new players could be deployed to a "training Facillity" (maybe the research complex) and walked through various things with Aura (the AI voice in EVE) giving instructions using witty dialogue. After basic controls and certain skills have been taught, have drones invade the training facillity and threaten to destroy the "central cortex" (or whatever you want to call it) which would mean the clone data for the entire facillity will be lost forever. It's up to you to save the place. You progress through the story (on rails and heavily scripted) with Aura calling in a LAV, so you can go hack the missile turret to shoot down their ship, and then you get in the dropship and man the turret to kill some stuff, get out and revive someone important, before hacking a supply depot to switch suits, etc. You get the idea. This whole thing would culminate in a fight against a boss drone that you kill using a HAV. The tutorial would cover game mechanics like shield vs. armor, explain how certain weapons are better against certain opponents, introduce all of the weapons and suit types. It would "sell" the game to new players on all of the cool stuff there is to use and skill into. After the tutorial is completed, new players would be able to play in any game mode that exists, and additionally, there would be an academy mode option available (the only mode checked by default). New players will be able to play in academy matches until they hit a SP cap (like 5 mill SP or so). Upon "graduating from the academy, new players will have their skills reset allowing them to make a permanent SP investment. It should be made ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that they can never undo their SP choices, and that they'll have to live with their decisions forever. Also upon completing the tutorial, new players will be presented with a screen of corps that have all requested to CCP that they want to recruit new players. This screen would show the name of the corp, active player count, tax rate, a brief description written by the CEO, etc. The game should explain what a corp is and how it is essential to survival. Really encourage them to join a new player friendly corp (maybe even give them some SP, or a non-transferable 1 day booster when they join their first corp). Make militia versions of everything. And create a testing lab mode where you can have infinite SP and everything costs 0 ISK. You can shoot static targets, invite friends to join you and you can shoot each other, crash vehicles, whatever you want to do. It's like a playground to experiment and test with no consequences and no effect on your stats, SP, or wallet. If CCP could do all of this, I think DUST would have a VERY bright future. Best PvE idea ever!
Altina McAlterson Pure Innocence. EoN. 971	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:42:00 - [19] - Quote I've never been in the Battle Academy but I can imagine how brutal it is to just throw them right into the fire like that. I imagine a great many mercs have called it quits shortly after leaving the Academy. Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 193	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:48:00 - [20] - Quote Aika Nakata wrote: Forever ETC wrote: Today I helped out a very new player in local and managed to get him hooked. I taught him about the marketplace, went through almost every skill, and about the different races. We ran a quick skirm and showed him tanks, cloaks, installations, equipment, suits, and OBs(he really loved these). Anyways we are continuing tomorrow, and that got me thinking how can we improve NPE? I spent nearly an hour explaining everything and I felt that I raised more questions. Also how should I explain Dropsuit fitting without frying his brains. Good, you get to teach me tomorrow =p Oh... Hi, now I got two under my belt. BTW do you remember who sent you that message in Learning Coalition. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!

Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 194	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:57:00 - [21] - Quote Also, you guys are straying from my topic. New players have no idea what this is about and what to do. The guy who I was teaching asked me if the point of the game was hacking. When I told him about the different races and what they excel at he was amazed but when I got further into detail about the marketplace and skills, he said he was mind f*cked. They have no idea how deep this game is. When we ran skirmish and he died lots of times but when I told him I had to go, he said "wait, one more this is so cool". Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!
Vell0cet Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 1333	Posted - 2014.03.30 05:12:00 - [22] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: Also, you guys are straying from my topic. New players have no idea what this is about and what to do. The guy who I was teaching asked me if the point of the game was hacking. When I told him about the different races and what they excel at he was amazed but when I got further into detail about the marketplace and skills, he said he was mind f*cked. They have no idea how deep this game is. When we ran skirmish and he died lots of times but when I told him I had to go, he said "wait, one more this is so cool". It would be cool if there was some reward for mentoring new players. Maybe give a free 7-day passive booster for every player you mentor that manages to accumulate x lifetime WPs. Also make it a stat on your bio: something you could show-off with pride. Best PvE idea ever!
Aika Nakata Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2014.03.30 05:13:00 - [23] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: Aika Nakata wrote: Forever ETC wrote: Today I helped out a very new player in local and managed to get him hooked. I taught him about the marketplace, went through almost every skill, and about the different races. We ran a quick skirm and showed him tanks, cloaks, installations, equipment, suits, and OBs(he really loved these). Anyways we are continuing tomorrow, and that got me thinking how can we improve NPE? I spent nearly an hour explaining everything and I felt that I raised more questions. Also how should I explain Dropsuit fitting without frying his brains. Good, you get to teach me tomorrow =p Oh... Hi, now I got two under my belt. BTW do you remember who sent you that message in Learning Coalition. Nah. But they also got me to waste a point into flaylocks...thats a waste of isk right there x.x
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 194	Posted - 2014.03.30 05:35:00 - [24] - Quote Aika Nakata wrote: Forever ETC wrote: Aika Nakata wrote: Forever ETC wrote: Today I helped out a very new player in local and managed to get him hooked. I taught him about the marketplace, went through almost every skill, and about the different races. We ran a quick skirm and showed him tanks, cloaks, installations, equipment, suits, and OBs(he really loved these). Anyways we are continuing tomorrow, and that got me thinking how can we improve NPE? I spent nearly an hour explaining everything and I felt that I raised more questions. Also how should I explain Dropsuit fitting without frying his brains. Good, you get to teach me tomorrow =p Oh... Hi, now I got two under my belt. BTW do you remember who sent you that message in Learning Coalition. Nah. But they also got me to waste a point into flaylocks...thats a waste of isk right there x.x Damn, sorry about that. Anyways since I'm gonna teach you both, I'll pay you guys a bit so you can use whatever you want. Also I'm gonna be on roughly around the same time 22-24 Dust time. I'll message you when we start. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!


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