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Far Fall
DUST University
Ivy League
33
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Posted - 2014.03.30 02:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've heard all of the elites talk about how they have isk and run protos in pubs because they can and it's their right. I've heard new folk talk about how protosquads in pubs ruins new player experience and discourage new users. I've heard people call protosuits a crutch.
All I know is...vertical progression in an FPS was a terrible idea. Especially with a small matchmaking pool. It makes newplayers feel mostly useless when they have to fight those squads. It makes normal players doubt whether or not they lost due to the opponent being more skilled, after all it could have just been because he had x amount more HP than you. Because of this doubt instead of accepting the loss they come to the forum and complain about proto disparity. It's gives the vets something to use that actually does discourage new players. No one wants to wait 1 and half years to be fairly competitive one on one in a video game.
At least that's my opinion. |
Far Fall
DUST University
Ivy League
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
I understand that tiers do give newplayers a longer term goal to strive for(carrot and stick WOW type progression). It also tends to keep vets playing once they get there (see sunk cost fallacy, I'm sure it's on wikipedia) which is a good thing for player retention in the long term.
The problem is that mixing vertical progression into a genre generally held to be purely skill based kind of sits strangely with new player expectations from other fps games. It doesn't seem to often sit well. I don't think it would be as large of an issue if we had a large and diverse enough population to do effective matchmaking or some type of game mode that could shield new players from the worst aspects of this vertical progression (high sec, pve or what have you).
Until then though, I feel that the power disparity or even perceived power disparity between new players and old will tend to scare off new players. |
Far Fall
DUST University
Ivy League
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 03:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Virtual Riot wrote:I dont think massive tiercide is the answer. I like that my dropsuit can be radically different than the next guys. Fitting your suit in an effective way takes just as much skill as shooting someone.
What we need is gear based matchmaking.
Basic
Adv
Proto
Payouts and SP gains are increased as you go up the tiers. Keeps vets happy, and gives new players something to aspire to.
Basically, once you make a suit, the average meta level of the suit is calculated based on all its modules.
You can then only use that suit in its respective tier of game.
I've always liked this idea, but the counter argument has always been that we don't have a large enough population to divide up the player base in matchmaking like this. It would cause the timer for matches to be too long. Now, I'm not sure that is true because I have never been privy to that data, but what are some ways that could be addressed if it were an issue? I'm not asking you in particular, just the dust forum goers as a whole, though if you have a response I'd like to hear it. |
Far Fall
DUST University
Ivy League
35
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 03:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:
I think that it should be something along the lines of a new level of combat that is more rewarding (payouts/challenges/etc) for veteran players that will get them to voluntarily move on and leave the new players to get acquainted with the game. Think of it as higher level dungeons for fantasy type mmo games.
You can either keep it the way it currently is with the same issues or hope that player counts will get better enough to support multiple tiers in the game. The is no 'have your cake and eat it to' scenario with this.
I think that this is a good idea, but I believe PC was sort of an attempt at this(correct me if I'm wrong). It does not seemed to have worked. Brainstorm time! What sorts of game modes could be targeted at vets so that they would tend to aggregate away from areas new players frequent? Any game mode that has an impact on the eve universe would encourage those who care for that sort of thing, though many dust players probably don't.
@Athena Sentinel
It's true that in many fpses you are disadvantaged, but in those games it usually takes around 3 days to a week to become competitive ability/gear wise. In this game it takes months and the disparity is actually larger than in those games. When I play COD or Battlefield, if I'm smart about positioning behind cover I can kill one or two guys in a group of three that are in the open and get away.
In Dust if I see a three man protosquad and I'm in standard gear there is no way I can kill one of them without dying to the other two(excluding one being a straggler or the three protosquad members being incredibly bad). Now, that's mostly due to time to kill differences between this game and those, but it still illustrates the point that vertical progression is a much larger factor in this game than the standards(unless of course you weren't talking about the standard FPS games, in which case my point is moot). |
Far Fall
DUST University
Ivy League
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 04:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
azzkikr 619 wrote:Another tiercide post With the 3m sp every active player got last week , everyone should have a proto suit unlocked. Unless they were too stupid to get one. Oh well , no one gave me 3 mil back when I was a noob and I got proto stomped , now I stomp basic and proto alike
This post is not about me. I have a protosuit and 3 proto weapons unlocked and my core skills maxed. I usually go positive, but I don't go positive enough to consistently run proto suits. I know that is because I don't squad up enough and I'm not elite in my skill level.
This post is about the new player and their experiences of the game and what I generally think of puts them. This post has also become about trying to find a solution to that problem without causing all the vets to leave if possible. |
Far Fall
DUST University
Ivy League
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 04:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think you illustrate an often unseen but crucial problem with this game's NPE: the curve of your opponent's difficulty skyrockets. You go from versing all new players, to facing those who will almost always beat you. Here is my anecdote from another thread:
A person may be able to start learning the piano by first and very slowly learning a complicated piece by beethoven, but most will be far too frustrated by this and quit before they make any real progress.
If the difficulty curve were smoother you'd probably have much higher player retention rate.
azzkikr 619 wrote:Another tiercide post With the 3m sp every active player got last week , everyone should have a proto suit unlocked. Unless they were too stupid to get one. Oh well , no one gave me 3 mil back when I was a noob and I got proto stomped , now I stomp basic and proto alike
This post is not about me. I have a protosuit and 3 proto weapons unlocked and my core skills maxed. I usually go positive, but I don't go positive enough to consistently run proto suits. I know that is because I don't squad up enough and I don't have elite fps skills.
This post is about the new player and their experiences of the game and what I generally think of puts them. This post has also become about trying to find a solution to that problem without causing all the vets to leave if possible. |
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