DUST Search - cloaks are not OP, your just blind

knight guard fury wrote:

as a part time scout, i can say that cloaks are not OP at all.

i say this because i have been spotted, killed, and chased by many people while i have been cloaked and they can clearly see me running away or towards them.

people who QQ about scout are just blind and cant see anything without there crutch active scanner, or they just can be situationally/enviorementally aware of their surroundings.

sure scouts have 1 second to shoot before complete decloak, but that is probably our best element of suprise. if we had to wait one second to decloak and pull out our gun then that would give the enemy that one second to kill us and it doesnt even take a second to kill most scout that arent proto scout suits.

the cloak shotgun scouts use shotgun because any other weapon would take to long to kill you and would 8/10 times end up getting us killed.

one of our best and new roles as a scout is harrassing the enemy team, and if there are enemy scouts on the other team then we will most likely keep killing the non scout or hunt down each other for fun and practice.

there are many ways to see a scout while cloaked, you just need to pay attention in doing so.
-no matter what a scout has to move at some point and they are doing it 99% of the time so its only common to stand still if they are hacking or hiding or even waiting to counter attack someone.
-we are totally invisible you idiots, i can easily see a scout 50m out with no trouble because we all show shimmers in the space we occupy and its totally obvius if a scout is there or not.
-if you ADS you will most certainly see something identifing that something is there or your reticle will turn red.

if you think being a scout is cheap and fun then you are direly wrong.
-my most common scout fit is easily 10k-20k a pop and is very costly to fit the few modules i can manage to fit.
-at the least your scout will be atleast 7-13k if your mostly using basic modules.
-remember that most scout suits cost more than your suit does so be happy every time you kill a scout with a cloak on it.

the scout has been only slightly UP for a while and its finally time that the scout uses its time to shine to its advantage.
before this build we rarely ever used shotguns because it was pointless in using something that glitches and was nearly impossible to land a good shot while strafing like crazy. no matter what cloaks are cloaks so your just going to have to deal with it and have better eye sight or other wise you'll just let scouts get too close too you.

also we will always get close to kill you because we always or most likely will just flank you and kill you from behind so expect them to be on your flank rather than on you sides or front view.


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Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 128	Posted - 2014.03.28 03:37:00 - [1] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: as a part time scout, i can say that cloaks are not OP at all. i say this because i have been spotted, killed, and chased by many people while i have been cloaked and they can clearly see me running away or towards them. people who QQ about scout are just blind and cant see anything without there crutch active scanner, or they just can be situationally/enviorementally aware of their surroundings. sure scouts have 1 second to shoot before complete decloak, but that is probably our best element of suprise. if we had to wait one second to decloak and pull out our gun then that would give the enemy that one second to kill us and it doesnt even take a second to kill most scout that arent proto scout suits. the cloak shotgun scouts use shotgun because any other weapon would take to long to kill you and would 8/10 times end up getting us killed. one of our best and new roles as a scout is harrassing the enemy team, and if there are enemy scouts on the other team then we will most likely keep killing the non scout or hunt down each other for fun and practice. there are many ways to see a scout while cloaked, you just need to pay attention in doing so. -no matter what a scout has to move at some point and they are doing it 99% of the time so its only common to stand still if they are hacking or hiding or even waiting to counter attack someone. -we are totally invisible you idiots, i can easily see a scout 50m out with no trouble because we all show shimmers in the space we occupy and its totally obvius if a scout is there or not. -if you ADS you will most certainly see something identifing that something is there or your reticle will turn red. if you think being a scout is cheap and fun then you are direly wrong. -my most common scout fit is easily 10k-20k a pop and is very costly to fit the few modules i can manage to fit. -at the least your scout will be atleast 7-13k if your mostly using basic modules. -remember that most scout suits cost more than your suit does so be happy every time you kill a scout with a cloak on it. the scout has been only slightly UP for a while and its finally time that the scout uses its time to shine to its advantage. before this build we rarely ever used shotguns because it was pointless in using something that glitches and was nearly impossible to land a good shot while strafing like crazy. no matter what cloaks are cloaks so your just going to have to deal with it and have better eye sight or other wise you'll just let scouts get too close too you. also we will always get close to kill you because we always or most likely will just flank you and kill you from behind so expect them to be on your flank rather than on you sides or front view. Holy **, how many scout deniers are there. I thought there was enough of tank deniers, now i don't know which morons are more numerous. Your argument: 1. People are blind cause you've been killed before - invalid 2. You can't see us until we've shot but this is our element of surprise - you my friend are a *** idiot. 3. Scouts need to be slayers to harass the other team - again, you're an idiot 4. Scouts are getting away with cheap suits, this isn't an argument, any class can have cheap suit. The fact you are and are doing well in a cheap suit should tell you something. 5. Oh cloaks aren't OP because if we play properly and flank you we can still kill you - thats an argument against cloaks. Listen, i understand you are a scout, you've been for a while and now you get this toy and you are doing well. We are happy that over night you've learn how to play properly and got skilled... Oh wait you didn't. Instead your gameplay is **, you aren't skilled, have no awareness, obviously can't kill anyone but this is magically fixed by your cloak. You present 5 "reasons" cloaks are not OP, none of them are close to being valid. The first is hilarious, its wrong, many scouts can't be seen well. I have walked around maps today completely invisible. I have seen videos of people running with NK and shotguns..l have even seen guys in my own games use shotguns and there's no way i saw them before they shot me or after, there was no de-cloaking process at all. The 3rd reason, you say scouts need to be the new Logi slayer fit, that's untrue. The scout should excel with movement and strategy. It should be a effective objective and recon based role which can kill other light suits and medium suits by using tactics and in no way should take down heavies or be some sort of super killing machine racking up 20+ kills every map regardless of the scouts skill level. So you are wrong, you just want scouts to be the new Logi slayer because you suck before and now are getting kills and are happy about it. The 4th and 5th is actually a reasons against cloaks. You argue that scouts are able to kill players handily with very cheap suits, so even at std level these suits are highly effective. Which given the nature of,your 3rd reason (killing) you think an advanced scout should be a killing machine, that is wrong. If you can be effective as a std scout, that's great but it doesn't support the reason for a cape.. It actually says you don't require one. Lastly, you say cloaks aren't OP because if you play well (strategically plan attacks and flanks, then pick opportune times to strike, and set up attacks so you get advantage) it totally supports the removal of the cloak. A cloak covers up (is a crutch) for bad players. So say it yourself, with good gameplay, decisions, and proper tactics you can sneak up on foes without a cloak. Therefore a cloak is not required to be successful therefore it should be removed because it covers for poor play. You said it yourself.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 129	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:00:00 - [2] - Quote Obviously your 5 arguments are terrible, they are either an invalid argument or they in fact (last 2 reasons) support the removal of a cloak. Here are some arguments against cloaks. 1. They cover poor play: - no awareness needed for hacking objectives, just cloak and go. This rewards poor play. - no need to take intelligent routes around open spaces. A fragile suit should avoid open spaces, but just cloak and run. Cloaks awards poor play. - there is no need to flank or pick engagements that are favourable - the reason for opportunist okay is that scouts are fragile and need an advantage to take on more eHP suits, yet using a cloak provides this advantage for free. There is no need to make strategic decisions when encountering an enemy, just cloak and engage. Again, no reason to flank an enemy when a cloak provides you the advantage you seek already, so again this leads to scouts just running to the front lines and then cloaking and engaging foes. This is bullshit and rewards terrible gameplay and strategy. - scouts often require to be close to kill (SG or NK) cloaks allow this is occur without the skill of a scout to move around the map and pick softer or easy targets (outliers) and doesn't require any sort of thinking or strategy in how to close the gap without being spotted. So cloaks provide the opportunity to be close range without the skill or knowledge of tactics. - it is poor gameplay to take on opponents 1v1 or 1v2, the cloak allows these engagements to be advantageous to a scout when a scout charges their foes, so it rewards an all out blind attack rather than strategy or being selective in your engagements. 2. Cloaks create unbalance - cloaks turn average and below average players into viable slayers. This doesn't mean scouts all of a sudden improved their gameplay it means all someone did is equip a cloak and use it some-what properly (turn it on before you engage) and they can rack up kills. - scouts are and shouldn't be a slayer class.. They are a assassin picking off selective targets, they are taking objectives and using their movement and strategic gameplay to flank to kill foes. They aren't a front lines slay everyone type class. - inexperienced scouts should not be able to take down heavies with the ease the are now, it provides advantage to non skillful play when bad players do well for no reason other than they use this equipment. - you can't reward everyone who runs a cloak with the ability to dominate the battlefield, i understand scouts have had rough times but thats because you're not a good scout. Scouts were fine in 1.7... They even received significant boosts from 1.7 to 1.8 which made they stronger, more versatile and more adaptable. These boosts should have been plenty to help some struggling scouts reach better results. (Added two new classes, added equipment slot, added a hi or a low to current suits). - many scouts did fine or even great in 1.7 - they received boosts and yet the cloak just makes the case that anyone can be great when they are not skilled players . No single player can provide any reason why cloaks are not OP, they just are we young their new UP status and don't want to accept cloaks as the reason they are now doing well. They just deny deny deny that cloaks help them significantly because they do not want to return to their previous struggles. Scouts got boosted in 1.8 regardless if cloaks were introduced. Scout would be been a very strong call regardless of their new crutch, i mean cloak. Scouts argue open your eyes you can see me, you can see me if your eyes are OP... What ***** idiots. You are a **** player and a cloak is the only reason you are doing well now and didn't in 1.7. Take off the cloak because it is not needed to do well, and be honest about cloaks being unnecessary for scouts to excel. Players who make massive mistakes are not being punished for their gameplay errors, or their lack of skill or awareness. They are not being punished for their terrible choices in pathing or being selective with targets, instead they are being rewarded.. This is bullshit. So you sir are a denier, you sir provided 5 terrible reason.. And 3 of which were reason why cloaks need to go and 2 were invalid.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 129	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:02:00 - [3] - Quote I guess you died so much in previous patches that ints nice for you to do well, but next time you need to visit the CCP hospital please don't leave without your crutch,,. I mean cloak. You wouldn't want to have a fair, balanced game which rewards good, strategic gameplay and punishes poor decisions.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 129	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:05:00 - [4] - Quote I guess i wrote a hell of a lot, but if you read it all you can surely respond with "get a pair of glasses if you can't see me" or a "get good" comment because that is what people do when their arguments are invalid (and support to other sides view) and you just got owned by someone rebuttal to your ridiculous statements.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:27:00 - [5] - Quote [quote=knight guard fury] Quote: Cotsy8 Holy **, how many scout deniers are there. I thought there was enough of tank deniers, now i don't know which morons are more numerous. im not saying im a scout denier or anything, i just like to say things that i have experianced. Your argument: 1. People are blind cause you've been killed before - invalid my point to that was dozens of people i have fought me while i was cloaked and it was obvius that they could see me even while cloaked because they either ADS or saw the shimmer of my cloak. they can see you after you've de-cloaked, but it's not always easy to see the glimmer in a game that has lag, frame rate issues, bugs etc. also, you could have got a drop on them because of the cloak and not good strategic gameplay and positioning. The fact you think they saw you means they would have killed you previously.. The role of a scout means you aren't seen because you have attacked from behind or flanked them from the side. This again is a point against cloaks, as you just have shown 2. You can't see us until we've shot but this is our element of surprise in the history of my gaming life, what game insta-uncloaks you for switching a weapon, ive always known cloaks to slowly uncloak you but they either already have a weapon in their hands or they are already in the process of getting their weapon so i dont mind cloaks taking a sec while scouts select their weapon ok, if cloaks work in ither games! it doesn't mean they work in dust.. It doesn't mean they are required for scouts to do well. It doesn't mean anything but they aren't useful* 3. Scouts need to be slayers to harass the other team - again, you're an idiot i never said slayer, i was saying that they have a new possible role. the role of running to the front lines and cloaking is no't a new roles.. It's called an assault role. Scouts were given plenty of roles, being a fragile suit means you avoid conflict and heavy traffic areas. Cloaks allow you to act with disregard for your health or awareness of dangerous foes. Again, this new role isn't really an argument in favor or scouts, but rather supports the idea of a new slayer type class or picking the wrong class and being rewarded for poor gameplay.** 4. Scouts are getting away with cheap suits, this isn't an argument, any class can have cheap suit. The fact you are and are doing well in a cheap suit should tell you something. i never said that, i said that scouts are usually more expensive and are so cheap to run depending on what they have. scouts can be very effective for very cheap. All suits are quite balanced based on ISK, but scouts are not balance in terms of the skill level it takes for a player to excel at the class.* 5. Oh cloaks aren't OP because if we play properly and flank you we can still kill you - thats an argument against cloaks. i said that we usually flank and will almost always kill you from behind, i wasn't talking about flanking i was talking about what most scouts do. as previously stated, if you are playing the scout class properly (ie flanking and attacking from behind... Or attacking when things are advantage for you) then you don't require a cloak. This is a huge argument in favor of removing cloaks because it rewards bad gameplay, poor tactics. You should be able to attack without being seen without a cloak, that is the skill of the scout, that is what scouts are for and how they are designed. They require strategic gameplay and thought to be good, and cloaks remove skill and remove punishment for poor decisions (instead it rewards poor play)* No room left ill answer rest in another post.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:33:00 - [6] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: I guess you died so much in previous patches that ints nice for you to do well, but next time you need to visit the CCP hospital please don't leave without your crutch,,. I mean cloak. You wouldn't want to have a fair, balanced game which rewards good, strategic gameplay and punishes poor decisions. your telling that to a man who has been using the minmatar suits, which are some of the weakest suits in the game, for most of his dust life. i have learned to adapt and have never truely complained about anything ccp does to most stuff because i love ccp to a degree. i have learned dozens of strategies, been in many situations, and have skilled in to many things, i became the best jack of all trades up until 1.8 as i skilled into all minmatar suits. i am a minmatar loyalist who is proud of what he does, and if you think im going to let some minmatar enslaving religious nut job try to make my statements "Invalid". Oh ill show something invalid alright, but your probably not gonna like it. on a side note i will always correct the uncorrected as i did in an earlier post so STFU or HTFU because i always have a reason for saying and doing the things i do since i love dust and its community and i just want to try and help even if i make ranting post or "QQ" post. either way i will most often have a counter arguement to your counter argument Again, this is an argument against cloaks. I also agree min adv scout suit need a buff to PG (another matter). Scouts, most but not all, have had it rough. It is most difficult class to play because of the skill and decision making experience one needs to excel. But just because scouts were hard before, doesnt mean CCP needs to give them "EZ MODE" with cloaks. Scouts were given a boost, as mentioned with new classes, more slots, more equipment slots.., this boost would have made scouts far stronger and more viable on the battlefield. But instead, cloaks are a crutch bad players who make bad choices use to solve their poor gameplay problems. I know you support cloaks, but it seems that everything you argue seems to support cloaks being removed. Have you changed your mind?!? In all honestly, I am a scout.. I did good in 1.7 and 1.8 is ridiculous. Its unfair, not required, and frankly disconcerting that more scouts aren't acknowledging that cloaks are a problem. Cloaks reward bad things and remove punishments but scouts don't want to return to their old struggles and they don't want a nerf because they want to dominate.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:37:00 - [7] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I'm not blind: Scan wise and Eye wise I have visually picked up numerous cloaked scouts therefore advantage should be mine but boop goes the shotgun. I have also been scanning them passively on my galscout. I'm not blind to them, but there is no disadvantage to them. There's a disadvantage in not running one. See the issue? Oh i spammed and text blocked the issue x300. I think i changed his mind. I'm now hoping he writes a remove cloaks thread.