DUST Search - CCP, I'm Displeased

Bat Shard0 wrote:

Harpyja wrote:

Bat Shard0 wrote:

Nope, I think they did it right with nerfing range. First - No more "no risk red line sniping tanks". Second, nerfing hardners affect rail tanks too as other vehicles. + nerfing that turret affect and instalations too. This hot fix affect only red line tanks snipers, everyone else is happy.

And please don't say comunity didn't want it, because as part of the same comunity I want it, as many others too Shocked

Nerfing hardeners helps rail tanks the most. I need to be able to outlast their hardener so that I have a chance to beat them with my missiles at CQC. There's only so many shots that I can take while I'm trying my best to dance around them and waiting out their hardener

The TTK against rail tanks won't change much for my missiles, while now they require less shots to bring me down.

Now they are also forced into CQC where they'll tear up everything. Rails in the hills are easy to avoid. Running head first into a rail Gunnlogi in CQC is a death sentence.

Rails in the hill are easy to avoid you say? How to avoid something you even don't see? For example the bridge map in Domination mode - with new range tank from the hill cannot shoot something on the bridge as before. Plus keep in mind now Large Rails and Forge have same range. With nerfed hardners there are much more oportunities to destroy rail tank now. And no more "Closed skyes" because of noob Sica on the hill

Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...

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Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1405	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:15:00 - [1] - Quote You took the wrong approach towards nerfing railguns. Now combined with a hardener nerf, railguns will only be more OP than before, as the only thing that protected us from the OP railgun were our "OP" hardeners. Please don't tell me you're finished with looking at railguns. I'm disappointed that you didn't take suggestions from the community for dealing with the large railgun. Bringing it back to 1.6 compressed railgun stats would've gone a long way in the right direction. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Bat Shard0 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:40:00 - [2] - Quote Nope, I think they did it right with nerfing range. First - No more "no risk red line sniping tanks". Second, nerfing hardners affect rail tanks too as other vehicles. + nerfing that turret affect and instalations too. This hot fix affect only red line tanks snipers, everyone else is happy. And please don't say comunity didn't want it, because as part of the same comunity I want it, as many others too http://dust514news.blogspot.com/
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 299	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:41:00 - [3] - Quote They nerfed em? What'd they do, just out of curiosity? I haven't been on yet today. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 306	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:42:00 - [4] - Quote How does reducing railgun range make it more op? I'll finally be able to survive a match in my Myron without having to land deal in my red line after every hit. Reducing range was the first step in correcting railguns Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1405	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:48:00 - [5] - Quote Bat Shard0 wrote: Nope, I think they did it right with nerfing range. First - No more "no risk red line sniping tanks". Second, nerfing hardners affect rail tanks too as other vehicles. + nerfing that turret affect and instalations too. This hot fix affect only red line tanks snipers, everyone else is happy. And please don't say comunity didn't want it, because as part of the same comunity I want it, as many others too Nerfing hardeners helps rail tanks the most. I need to be able to outlast their hardener so that I have a chance to beat them with my missiles at CQC. There's only so many shots that I can take while I'm trying my best to dance around them and waiting out their hardener The TTK against rail tanks won't change much for my missiles, while now they require less shots to bring me down. Now they are also forced into CQC where they'll tear up everything. Rails in the hills are easy to avoid. Running head first into a rail Gunnlogi in CQC is a death sentence. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
GeneralButtNaked Amarr Templars 910	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:51:00 - [6] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: How does reducing railgun range make it more op? I'll finally be able to survive a match in my Myron without having to land deal in my red line after every hit. Reducing range was the first step in correcting railguns Range alone is one thing, not reducing alpha or damage mods while cutting hardeners means you will not be able to survive getting hit now in your DS. As a player who aggressively tanks, this change is less impactful to me, maybe, but it is going to mean even less work to take down dropships now. Every thing will be a two shot kill. My biggest problem is with the severity of the changes. At no point in the development should cutting something in half be a reasonable "balancing pass". 40% nerfs to armor hardeners and 33% to shield hardeners are just insane. If this stuff can be altered server side, then make the changes one by one, and slowly, to see the data return. The problem with CCP rushing anything is that we have seen how badly they screw up when they take their time, the last thing you want CCP doing is putting together a quick fix. CCP should focus on progress through evolution, not constant revolution. Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
Piercing Serenity Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 580	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:52:00 - [7] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: How does reducing railgun range make it more op? I'll finally be able to survive a match in my Myron without having to land deal in my red line after every hit. Reducing range was the first step in correcting railguns I guess the argument is: Railguns are still as powerful as they were yesterday The tools to resist railguns have been nerfed Railguns are (apparently) viable in CQC While this nerf does force railgun tanks to engage as closer distances, it does nothing to change their ROF or DPS. That's my guess anyway DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1217	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:54:00 - [8] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: They nerfed em? What'd they do, just out of curiosity? I haven't been on yet today. Reduced large rail gun range from 600m to 300m Nerfed hardeners to 25% for armor and 40% for shields.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 307	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:56:00 - [9] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Dauth Jenkins wrote: How does reducing railgun range make it more op? I'll finally be able to survive a match in my Myron without having to land deal in my red line after every hit. Reducing range was the first step in correcting railguns I guess the argument is: Railguns are still as powerful as they were yesterday The tools to resist railguns have been nerfed Railguns are (apparently) viable in CQC While this nerf does force railgun tanks to engage as closer distances, it does nothing to change their ROF or DPS. That's my guess anyway My problem with railguns was they stayed in the red line, and the only way to counter them was with another railtank, or a JLAV.... and I suck at JLAVs Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Bat Shard0 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:59:00 - [10] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Bat Shard0 wrote: Nope, I think they did it right with nerfing range. First - No more "no risk red line sniping tanks". Second, nerfing hardners affect rail tanks too as other vehicles. + nerfing that turret affect and instalations too. This hot fix affect only red line tanks snipers, everyone else is happy. And please don't say comunity didn't want it, because as part of the same comunity I want it, as many others too Nerfing hardeners helps rail tanks the most. I need to be able to outlast their hardener so that I have a chance to beat them with my missiles at CQC. There's only so many shots that I can take while I'm trying my best to dance around them and waiting out their hardener The TTK against rail tanks won't change much for my missiles, while now they require less shots to bring me down. Now they are also forced into CQC where they'll tear up everything. Rails in the hills are easy to avoid. Running head first into a rail Gunnlogi in CQC is a death sentence. Rails in the hill are easy to avoid you say? How to avoid something you even don't see? For example the bridge map in Domination mode - with new range tank from the hill cannot shoot something on the bridge as before. Plus keep in mind now Large Rails and Forge have same range. With nerfed hardners there are much more oportunities to destroy rail tank now. And no more "Closed skyes" because of noob Sica on the hill http://dust514news.blogspot.com/

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2582	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:00:00 - [11] - Quote Harpyja wrote: You took the wrong approach towards nerfing railguns. Now combined with a hardener nerf, railguns will only be more OP than before, as the only thing that protected us from the OP railgun were our "OP" hardeners. Please don't tell me you're finished with looking at railguns. I'm disappointed that you didn't take suggestions from the community for dealing with the large railgun. Bringing it back to 1.6 compressed railgun stats would've gone a long way in the right direction. No the OP hardeners made you immune to AV and buffed you up so you could take rail hits. Get screwed tanking twatts. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1503	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:05:00 - [12] - Quote Bat Shard0 wrote: Nope, I think they did it right with nerfing range. First - No more "no risk red line sniping tanks". Second, nerfing hardners affect rail tanks too as other vehicles. + nerfing that turret affect and instalations too. This hot fix affect only red line tanks snipers, everyone else is happy. And please don't say comunity didn't want it, because as part of the same comunity I want it, as many others too I think the problem is most of these NPC corp sitters... know very little on what the actual problem was... Just that they where getting shot from the redline by a tank. and that has to stop NAOW... And it wont.... Doubling the Sruvivability of the Dropship while nerfing it's DPS would of been 100% better option.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 309	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:15:00 - [13] - Quote Bat Shard0 wrote: Harpyja wrote: Bat Shard0 wrote: Nope, I think they did it right with nerfing range. First - No more "no risk red line sniping tanks". Second, nerfing hardners affect rail tanks too as other vehicles. + nerfing that turret affect and instalations too. This hot fix affect only red line tanks snipers, everyone else is happy. And please don't say comunity didn't want it, because as part of the same comunity I want it, as many others too Nerfing hardeners helps rail tanks the most. I need to be able to outlast their hardener so that I have a chance to beat them with my missiles at CQC. There's only so many shots that I can take while I'm trying my best to dance around them and waiting out their hardener The TTK against rail tanks won't change much for my missiles, while now they require less shots to bring me down. Now they are also forced into CQC where they'll tear up everything. Rails in the hills are easy to avoid. Running head first into a rail Gunnlogi in CQC is a death sentence. Rails in the hill are easy to avoid you say? How to avoid something you even don't see? For example the bridge map in Domination mode - with new range tank from the hill cannot shoot something on the bridge as before. Plus keep in mind now Large Rails and Forge have same range. With nerfed hardners there are much more oportunities to destroy rail tank now. And no more "Closed skyes" because of noob Sica on the hill Having trouble with a rail up close? Ram it, so it can't fire at you. Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 1028	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:31:00 - [14] - Quote The problem is that there is now no advantage to running rails over forge guns. They have the same range, and forge guns can maneuver a lot of places that tanks can't. They can also hide better. Rails still have DPS, but running anything more expensive than militia is now no longer worth it with the hardener changes. A double hardened Gunnlogi loses his shields in 4 hits from a non damage mod militia railgun. All vehicles got broken because of tank QQ. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
Villanor Aquarius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 166	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:34:00 - [15] - Quote Harpyja wrote: The TTK against rail tanks won't change much for my missiles, while now they require less shots to bring me down. Now they are also forced into CQC where they'll tear up everything. Rails in the hills are easy to avoid. Running head first into a rail Gunnlogi in CQC is a death sentence. Trying to kill a Gunnlogi with missiles is your problem. Missile damage vs. shields is atrocious this is really a case of missiles being the only turret that is currently very specialized. The rail and blaster are too general purpose. My feelings are that rail damage is fine but the damage profile should be changed to be more shield focused. Reduce rail damage but give it a better efficiency against shields and a worse one against armor. If the damage drops 10% and the shield bonus goes up about 15% while armor goes down about 15% that nets a significant drop in effectiveness against armor tanks (and turrets) leaves them as great shield killers and also buffs missiles as the most viable armor killer. Bring out Militia large missiles too, having a viable large anti-armor turret would be important if rails become worse at handling armor.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1406	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:07:00 - [16] - Quote Villanor Aquarius wrote: Harpyja wrote: The TTK against rail tanks won't change much for my missiles, while now they require less shots to bring me down. Now they are also forced into CQC where they'll tear up everything. Rails in the hills are easy to avoid. Running head first into a rail Gunnlogi in CQC is a death sentence. Trying to kill a Gunnlogi with missiles is your problem. Missile damage vs. shields is atrocious this is really a case of missiles being the only turret that is currently very specialized. The rail and blaster are too general purpose. My feelings are that rail damage is fine but the damage profile should be changed to be more shield focused. Reduce rail damage but give it a better efficiency against shields and a worse one against armor. If the damage drops 10% and the shield bonus goes up about 15% while armor goes down about 15% that nets a significant drop in effectiveness against armor tanks (and turrets) leaves them as great shield killers and also buffs missiles as the most viable armor killer. Bring out Militia large missiles too, having a viable large anti-armor turret would be important if rails become worse at handling armor. Rails are supposed to be anti-armor. Yes I'm using missiles, but I should win because I'm in CQC and rails should be disadvantaged at CQC "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Villanor Aquarius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 166	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:03:00 - [17] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Rails are supposed to be anti-armor. Yes I'm using missiles, but I should win because I'm in CQC and rails should be disadvantaged at CQC The reason you don't win in CQC with a missile is because missiles lack the ammo types they have in eve. If you could switch to EM or thermal missiles you would easily win. And since missiles are supposed to perform by always having the appropriate damage for the job then they should add this. Since currently all the various turrets are not in game making that missile change or doing the change I suggested would help things in the meantime.
Omega Black Zero L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 0	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:11:00 - [18] - Quote I was under the impression missile turrets were meant to be anti air, blasters as anti infantry, and rails as anti vehicle.
Villanor Aquarius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 166	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:27:00 - [19] - Quote In eve it goes: Blasters, short range, medium falloff, high dps, good tracking Auto cannons, shorter range, long falloff, pretty high dps, slightly worse tracking Rails, longest range, medium falloff, mid dps, decent tracking (for range so bad for short) Arty, long range, longest falloff, lower dps (high alpha), bad tracking Missiles, any range, mid dps, hits as long as in range (fast targets don't take as much damage) Missiles also have a shorter range slower ammo that does huge dps but fast things can be mostly unaffected Lasers are odd and I haven't used them much but have good dps for their ranges but very very short falloff. Blaster/rails use the same ammo and it's all kinetic/thermal so slightly better against armor than shields Autocannons/Arty use same ammo and it's a variety of damage types they all do kinetic plus one other. Both hybrid and projectile ammo have different dps values and have a corresponding effect on range so the highest dps decrease your range and vice versa. Missiles within each class (small, medium, large etc) all have the same range and dps. There is a missile per damage type making them the only single damage type weapon. Missiles always hit and their dps is slightly lower to reflect this, the damage they apply is based on the size of missile versus target and the speed of the target vs. the speed of the missiles explosion.


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