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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2308
   |
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kaughst wrote:
...You don't think that stretching the limits of PC in that way will not force CCP to change the mechanics so that large alliances can not do this again? Think about it...Any time a weapon or mechanic was overused CCP addressed it. No problems can be addressed unless they stressed tested by the community. PC was never meant to be this way, something will change and it will be to the credit of all the players that took over Molden Heath. Things will change, so yes, keep voicing your opinion about it but don't hate the player hate the game...
This is the most bullsh*t excuse for exploitation. It is used often, but is basically the same as any criminal saying, "Hey guys, by robbing banks I'm actually making you all have BETTER security! I'm actually the good guy here, because the police and CEOs just gave you the ILLUSION of security. I should be able to keep all of your money because of my helpful service!"
The criminal can always find a way to outsmart the citizen (customer) and the government (vendor). But it is not anyone's duty to BREAK that social contract between the two. That isn't what makes society/community better.
Yes... it is just a game...
Can Kain make the case that he 'honorably' maintained his position as CPM0?
No. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2308
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
M1tch Rapp wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Kaughst wrote:
...You don't think that stretching the limits of PC in that way will not force CCP to change the mechanics so that large alliances can not do this again? Think about it...Any time a weapon or mechanic was overused CCP addressed it. No problems can be addressed unless they stressed tested by the community. PC was never meant to be this way, something will change and it will be to the credit of all the players that took over Molden Heath. Things will change, so yes, keep voicing your opinion about it but don't hate the player hate the game...
This is the most bullsh*t excuse for exploitation. It is used often, but is basically the same as any criminal saying, "Hey guys, buy robbing banks I'm actually making you all hav BETTER security! I'm actually the good guy here, because the police and CEOs just gave you the ILLUSION of security. I should be able to keep all of your money because of my helpful service!" I actually agree with them. I think it's the only way it will change. The problem is that such a small percentage of the community understands the dynamics of PC.
No!
If we are both arguing that the CPM has knowledge of upcoming PC 2.0 AND that the Blue Donus Coalition are exploiting the current environment at the expense of valuable oppotunities for smaller corps to get PC experience without paying the clone-pack premiums, then you can't ALSO argue that "this is the only way it was going to change."
We know two things right now...
A) CPM knew about initial frameworks for PC 1.now that never really worked itself out.
B) CPM knows a bit about upcoming PC 2.0.
More than anyone, the CPM would be able to monitor and give input about the progression of PC as designed. Knowing A would demonstrate a faith in the potential to develop products to build PC content. Knowing B would represent the future of what is coming.
If you know ^^B^^ is coming, you CANT also argue that "BLUELINING Molden Heath HAD to happen in order to change things." You knew change was coming in the first place.
Your options were to:
1) Be good sports, and capitalize on the moral high ground of 'good sportsmanship' while struggling to defend a significantly large chunk of space.
or
2) Blue-line Molden Heath - and claim the cultural victory at the expense of the community's cheap and fair experience of the 'end--game'. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2308
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kaughst wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Kaughst wrote:
...You don't think that stretching the limits of PC in that way will not force CCP to change the mechanics so that large alliances can not do this again? Think about it...Any time a weapon or mechanic was overused CCP addressed it. No problems can be addressed unless they stressed tested by the community. PC was never meant to be this way, something will change and it will be to the credit of all the players that took over Molden Heath. Things will change, so yes, keep voicing your opinion about it but don't hate the player hate the game...
This is the most bullsh*t excuse for exploitation. It is used often, but is basically the same as any criminal saying, "Hey guys, by robbing banks I'm actually making you all have BETTER security! I'm actually the good guy here, because the police and CEOs just gave you the ILLUSION of security. I should be able to keep all of your money because of my helpful service!" The criminal can always find a way to outsmart the citizen (customer) and the government (vendor). But it is not anyone's duty to BREAK that social contract between the two. That isn't what makes society/community better. Yes... it is just a game... Can Kain make the case that he 'honorably' maintained his position as CPM0? No. Don't compare a bank robbery to a bunch of people working together to go control a virtual space you do a disservice to everyone who died or was hurt by those events. People don't need an excuse to take over Molden Heath, the game encourages people to take over the Universe and the players decide that either individually or collectively. What they receive out of controlling that space and how you can go about it is up to CCP to decide. Nothing stops a alliance in the future from controlling Molden Heath or other vast tracks of land...besides that there is more than one region in lowsec and entire regions in null sec.
No you didn't get my point. I'm not saying that what they did was robbery. I'm saying doing what they did and claiming that they are "doing everyone a favor" is pretty hypocritical. There are a lot of better ways they could have "done the game a favor". Yes, it would probably have been ALOT more work, but Blue-lining molden heath really only helps a few of us.
Again, I'm not saying they weren't crafty or have poor players, they obviously have some of the best. I'm just saying they can't claim the "nice-guy-blue-donut-CEOs" title.
My point about bank robbery is that you can have respect for the robber's craft, bravery, and his cleverness, but he is still screwing people. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2308
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:The reality is this: Spero simply played the game brilliantly. Full stop.
So as a CPM1 candidate are you saying you would ALSO use inside information as the CPM to worm your way toward domination in the game? |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2310
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:low genius wrote:
beta characters will run this game, just like they run eve online. if you think we're not going to work hard to get as many beta characters in our alliance as possible, you're crazy. EVERYONE is trying to get the most talent available under their banner, right? what other choice is there? to let personal feelings get in the way of business?
that's bad business.
eve is serious business.
You can put on your big boy pants and have some actual competition or you can continue to sit on the bench watch the varsity team whip the crap out of the JV squad and pat yourself on the back about how good and/or smart you are for being on such an awesome team. To continue with the sports analogy, leagues have a salary cap to keep things competitive because when one team wins all the time it is bad for everybody in the sport as a whole. Less people watch, less revenue is generated, and if it goes bad enough the league folds.
I think you are missing the point that people are continually making...using your sports analogy...
You guys are like the HUGE schools with the ginormous sports budgets bragging and laughing that the B teams in smaller schools just aren't up to your caliber.
1) It takes time in the specific challenges of PC to get good.
2) It takes isk to play enough times to really learn how to be that good. Pub matches don't train you for it.
3) It takes LOTs of time to get the isk to make that huge investment in your corp. Meanwhile, PC passively prints your that isk.
4) You aren't guaranteed any ROI once you take a district in the current PC environment. You would have to go around 20 days of uncontested clone production to buy back 100 million isk worth of invested clone packs. |
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