The slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly.

Logis sacrifice sidearms, a bit of mobility, & base shields in exchange for for 2 or 3 more equipment slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equipment slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance.

- At standard (STD) tier all logistics (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts.
- At advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior module slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts.
- At prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also.

To sum up the above, logis are underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV tier, & all OP at PRO.

There is no actual reason for the Caldari (Cal) one only having 2 equipment at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for that sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP, even compared to the other UP STD logis.

There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD).

I would like to give basic frames a purpose, in 1.8 there is 36 STD-PRO basic frames; way too many suits in the game to have be completely useless. I say they are useless because for the most part they are inferior versions of the specialized suits (like assaults, logis, sentinels, etc), & they can't even be used as a way to save money since they're oddly more expensive (reversed for vehicles, specialized vehicles like assault dropsips cost more than the basic ones); there is just no reason to use a basic frame when you have unlock the specialization. We should never have 36 items that are worthless. For more on the basic frame issue go here.

The basic medium frames should be generalized middle-ground between the assault & logi, it would make the assault truly specialized by comparison instead of just being basic frames with bonuses slapped on. It would also give players the ability to test-drive both assault & logi roles before specializing; right now you can test out the assault role with a basic medium, but you can't test a logi role with their parent basic frame. The current set up is bad for testing roles.




Part 1: assault & logi

Give the Cal logistics 3 equipment slots at STD. Also 4 equipment at PRO (reduce module slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).

Equalize the module slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier (with exception of Am logi; loses slot to gain sidearm):

Assault & logi STD (high/low)
Am: 2/4
Ga: 2/4
Ca: 4/2 (+1 equipment for logi)
Min: 3/3

Assault & logi ADV
Am: 2/5
Ga: 3/4
Ca: 5/2
Min: 4/3

Assault & logi PRO
Am: 3/5
Ga: 3/5
Ca: 5/3 (+1 equipment for logi)
Min: 4/4

Part 2: basic medium frames
To fix the aforementioned issue, I think basic medium frames should have:

One more equipment for a total of 2; this is why the Cal & Am STD logis should have at least 3 to start out with, it is to differentiate them from my proposed basic mediums.

1 less module slot than their assault & logi counterparts. This is a tradeoff for more module slots.

Basic medium MLT (high/low/equipment)
Am: 2/2/2
Ga: 1/3/2
Ca: 3/1/2
Min: 2/1/2

Basic medium STD
Am: 2/3/2
Ga: 2/3/2
Ca: 3/2/2
Min: 3/2/2

Basic medium ADV
Am: 2/4/2
Ga: 2/4/2
Ca: 4/2/2
Min: 3/3/2

Basic medium PRO
Am: 3/4/2
Ga: 2/5/2
Ca: 5/2/2
Min: 4/3/2

1.8 Am mediums still have more high slots than low slots at MLT & STD tier, despite being primarily armor tankers in 1.8. Give Am suits more low slots at MLT & STD tier.

Make logis & assaults have the same number of module slots. Generally by raising assault slots, not nerfing logis.

Make medium frames gain an equipment slot, but have 1 less module slot than logis & assaults. This will give it purpose, & make the assaults truly specialized by comparison instead of being a basic frame with a bonus.

Make Cal logi have 3 equipment slots at STD, & 4 at PRO in exchange for losing 9th mod sot.

My proposed numbers makes mod slot progression less steep between tiers.

These changes would make assault vs logistics balanced at all tiers, making the assault's higher base HP actually matter, give basic mediums a purpose of being a good way to try both an assault & logi playstyles (instead of just assault playstyles), & solves the issue with Amarr slot layouts at MLT & STD tier.

Obviously PG/CPU should be tweaked

Both assaults & logis have the same module slot counts: 6 STD, 7 ADV, 8 PRO. Most logis did not get a mod slot nerf in this plan

Its kind of weird that (so far) there is a striking lack of assaults and logis from my experience.

TL;DR the overheat bonus for laser weapons.

Even with this change, what does the Assault do better than the Logistics? They would have a minor difference in health but the Logistics would have more CPU/PG and more equipment slots. Assaults would still lack something that they do better than the other suits. In other words, "assaults have no role."

Its nice that you admit to farming ISK by biomassing alts on the forums.

so do you think scouts will be nerfed for 1.9?

I have around 8 alt accounts I had collecting SP for the purpose of testing (in fact my corp i just a bank for alts to easily take ISK from), some are over a year old. I tested the new sentinels, the commandos, and the scouts. I always make it a priority to test new items when they come out. On one of such alts I tested out the Amarr scout everyone has been complaining about, and it made me realize something awful; Amarr assault is obsolete.

The Amarr scout has more module slots than the Amarr assault at standard and advanced, and at prototype it has he same number of module slots as the prototype Amarr assault. On all tiers I am able to achieve higher HP fits with the Amarr scout than the Amarr assault. While having 700+ HP (I call the fit "ABOMINATION"), I am still be faster, has 2 equipment slots (1 of which is a cloak), passive scan better, passive scan longer, be harder to detect, and have more stamina than the Amarr assault. Why use the Amarr assault if the Amarr scout can tank as much, if not more HP, and still have those aforementioned advantages? there is no reason to use the Amarr assault. What is the point of a suit having less base HP than another if you're going to let it surpass the other's HP through more slots? (same as the slayer logi problem)

This issue actually applies to all scouts and their racial assault counterparts, but the Amarr assault is a special case of suckage because its particularly lacking in slots; it has 1 less total module slot than all other assaults at all tiers. Why does the Amarr assault have less slot than others? it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari and Gallente assault, a small advantage easily countered by being the slowest assault. Its quite a silly design decision to deny the Amarr assault the slot. It should be noted that the Amarr scout, Amarr sentinel, and Amarr commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Amarr aren't forced to give up a slot; they shouldn't have to give up a slot, and neither should the Amarr assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss.

The Amarr assault may be a special case, but the "scout > assault" thing seems to be prevalent for all scouts and assaults of the same race and tier. With the exception of the Amarr assault, all assaults currently have 4 module slots at standard, 5 advanced, and 7 at prototype. The scouts have 4 at standard, 5 at advanced, and 6 at prototype. The scouts are superior; they have the module slots to tank comparable amounts of HP, while also being stealthier, better at passive scanning, being faster, 2 equipment slots and a bunch of other advantages.

I don't think scouts need a nerf, but I do thing medium frames (basic, assault, and logi) need to be tweaked and buffed. I posted about medium frame problems before here for the purpose of balancing logis and assaults (logis were underpowered at standard tier, and overpowered at prototype), and to give basic medium frames a purpose (though no relevant for this thread), but the slot changes I proposed seem relevant now since I think they would fix the problem. What I think needs to be done to fix the situation:

6 module slots at standard, 7 module slots at advanced, and 8 module slots at prototype (2 of the logis currently have 8 slots at proto already, one has 9) for ALL assaults and logis (no more screwing over the Amarr ones). The prototype assaults won't be that much tougher than they currently are, but one more module slot enough to keep their role viable. Making the assaults and logis start at 6 module slots on standard, 7 at advanced, and 8 at prototype would make progression more smooth; currently medium frames are the only ones that have a 2 module slot gap between one tie and the next, and that creates an unnecessarily high tier gap that other suits don't have. This would also be good for logis because right now at At standard tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr one) have inferior module slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts.

Equalize not only module slot count, but also the exact module slot layouts of assault and logis. This is to prevent logis from being able to tank more HP than assaults, and their lower base HP will actually matter. The slayer logi issue is not actually fixed in 1.8 since logis can still tank more HP because of having more slots, its just that there are bigger issues from the other frame sizes.

Specific module slot layout proposals can be found here in this thread. I will quote in the the second post for convenience.

Thank you for reading.

More stamina
More speed
Sidearm
Racial bonuses to enhance racial weaponry (the Amarr and Minmatar ones are great).

The assault's role is to be generally well-rounded, but offense oriented (hence the weapon bonuses).