DUST Search - Did you break your leg?

Buster Friently wrote:

Cotsy8 wrote:

I'm saying scouts deniers are morons, they are the new tanks. They can't recognize they got it too good. Scouts suffered before and excel now but it's not due to anything but advantage provided to them to cancel out their poor gameplay and terrible decision making. Many did quite fine in 1.7 and 1.8 provided new classes and more slot for goodies to help those suffering.

Recognize cloaks are unneeded, don't be a tank fool who feels everything is fine being UP. You want to be the new slayer class, you want to do well now cause you sucked before? No one has given me a single argument for a cloak, nothing. Just terrible comparisons to how they sucked before and now are always top 3 in their games. You sucked for a reason, poor gameplay. Scouts in 1.7 could got 25-5 and could go 12-15, there's nothing wrong with that.

Just cause you were **** in 1.7 and now have this unneeded new toy to cover your poor gameplay doesn't mean the new toy is a good thing. Scouts did well in 1.7 but dominate now, that's not how it should be. Don't be a tanker who doesn't see there is a major problem. Scouts got nice buffs in 1.8 and cloaks shouldn't have been included.

Stop being the new tank class, admit cloaks are not required. Scouts are fine without them.

Let me actually address your statement here.

Anyone claiming that everyone who doesn't think like you is a moron,, well, I think you know that's not only counterfactual but incredibly rude and short sighted.

What I'll say regarding whether the cloak is OP or not is that it's too early to tell. Please, take some time and play the game and see how the community reacts. Two weeks minimum. Then start whining and calling other people names if you must, but right now, it's far too premature.

Also, arguments stemming from "that's not how it should be use" are moot to begin with.

I will not recognize that cloaks are unneeded. In fact I will say that Dust still needs tons more gear to be a viable, long term game. This is self evident. And as I've mentioned a few times now, these new items will come from examples in Eve and it's lore, and this is appropriate.

Also, as evidenced elsewhere in your rambling posts, you are far too myopic and quick to place blame. I don't even play scouts. Yeah, read it again. I don't play scouts, so all your "you just want to be OP.." is pure BS.

The game is not fine. The game needs more content. Cloaks are a valuable addition, but they will not be the last.

So I say, once more, knowing this now:

Perhaps you should be looking elsewhere for an FPS that meets your needs, because your needs seem to be out of step with Dust as it is now, and as it will be.


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Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 102	Posted - 2014.03.26 17:14:00 - [1] - Quote Put your crutches away, remove cloaks and play scouts properly. Let me just say this is long, but I am a scout and i am appalled by cloaks and how they are being used, what they detract from the game and skill of a scout. They are simply a crutch being used by unskilled players to be competitive but it's ruining the game. There's no scout role playing, no skill required to use a cloak, no reason to have a scout with a cloak, just a massive advantage scouts do not require. Take off your crutches and remove cloaks from the game. I haven't heard a single other scout complain about cloaks or how their use a cloak to provide significant advantage not given to them by their poor stylist play in 1.7 or their lack of ability in FPS. They need to go. 1. Cloaks are ruining the game, and real scout role. Scouts were fine in 1.7, those who couldn't hack it tough love but the role was still fun. Running, flanking, strategically moving around the map to get the jump on the enemy. There was skill in running a 250 eHP fragile suit, you could never be too careful when hacking an objective or taking the wrong path. You could never take on players 1v1 or rush the front lines, there was skilled involved in the decision making and how you created an advantage for yourself in a match. Cloaks absolutely have ruined the game, and no scout wants to admit it. These unskilled pricks who couldn't hack it in 1.7 are now going largely undetected, running around with 650-800 eHP and could care less about Pathing or flanking. There no care i the world to check your back before hacking or climbing or even bother to check before you run across a large open space. These cloaked scouts are a step backwards. The cloaks is bullshit, it provides an advantage which is not required. There is no need to play strategically, no need to skillfully plan your route or avoid open areas. No need to worry about flanking the enemy. It's just a matter of running to the front lines, cloaking and getting the smallest jump on your foes. Because the scout now has so much eHP they are able to take on other classes with ease. This is bullshit, it ends any skillful play but no one seems to care if you're a scout. There's no learning curve now, there's no stealth or gameplay adaptations now that you are a as out, it's just run as fast as you can then turn on a cloak and get a jump on someone by hiding for a second. There is no need for cloaks in the game, they are a massive problem and should be removed. If you can hack it as a real scout then go be something else. All you new cloaked scouts or those who think cloaks are a good thing because they help so much, go out your crutches away. 2. Scouts already got a boost in 1.8 Some scouts had a difficult time in 1.7, but the cloak isn't a solution. It only creates a larger problem of unbalance, bullshit, and diminished skill. In 1.8 scouts got a extra slot (low or a high), got two new classes (more options, more adaptability), and got a second equipment slot (perfect for bringing compact hives and compact drop links). There was no reason to provide cloaks to scouts when they clearly got significant boosts. Scouts could play stealth, speed, light infantry, hacking, sniping, etc roles but now there's no reason to. Scouts got a boost in 1.8 and there's no reason to further provide them with this ridiculous crutch. 3. Cloaks don't balance anything Cloaks aren't useful to the game, they aren't required for people to be competitive as a scout. Players were fine in1.7 without scouts getting a boost, so why provide them with some insane cloak which kills their gameplay, hinders their role, eliminates stealth and skillful, removes any sort of balance to light-medium suits? There's no explanation or reasoning behind cloaks, they should be removed and those who argue against it are either scouts who need it because they broke their legs, or people who argue its a counter to heavies (which is it not). You don't need a scout with a cloak to kill a heavy, they aren't the only class who can, scouts aren't required to keep another class in check but rather to provide diverse and function as a role in a team. The cloaks is a equipment but why don't logi's get reduction? Seems ridiculous that they have a blanket racial bonus for equipment but just not that equipment. Kind of like saying you can have any car in the aisle of 20 at discount car rentals but not those 10. Its illogical, just like cloaks the self. No reason for them, scouts can succeed without them and have been successful in 1.7 and in 1.8 they were given a boost and still CCP gave them a cloak?!? Ridiculous. Sorry for long text.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 105	Posted - 2014.03.26 18:47:00 - [2] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: I don't understand the incredible complexities offered by the EVE universe but those who do are bad because they see tactical advantages that I do not. Tell an EVE pilot that cloaks serve no purpose and watch them petition to have you banned from their forums. Ill say it as I did yesterday. Awareness is OP, nerf eyesight. This isn't EVE. This is a FPS. The only relation between games is the developer. You cannot apply things from EVE to a FPS game as a justification for anything. Applying a cloak into a game which doesnt need it, a class which doesn't require it is uncalled for and only creates unbalance and bbullshit. You never disputed anything about cloaks, they usefulness or ability to dominate. My argument clearly shows that the cloak removes awareness. There's no reason to double check before waking in open, or hacking, or climbing. Cloak and make stupid decisions and they work out. Thats bulkshit. Learn how to play properly and take the right paths. Make the right decisions knowing you're a low eHP class and can't be caught in the open. Of scouts want to be the new slayer Logi, thats unfortunate. It shouldn't be the case, scout shouldn't have 6 k/d. They should use movement and strategy and kill to get kills and hack objectives.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 105	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:12:00 - [3] - Quote Erobthedude wrote: OP needs a new eyeglass prescription. You're the one with the crutches my friend. Its funny cause I'm doing so much better in 1.8 than 1.7 and it's all because of the cloak. I'm not saying i have a hard time seeing scouts, I'm saying this over the top boost to scouts is uncalled for and completely unnecessary for scouts. Scouts got a boost in 1.8 even if you remove cloaks, cloaks are not necessary to excel on the battlefield. Nothing but *** scouts who use their crutches as an excuse to be the new Logi slayer. Scouts are overjoyed after being slightly less than average in 1.7 to godly in 1.8. Learn to play as a scout, and the boosts scouts received from 1.7 should have made scouts a viable and solid option without cloaks. These no reason for me to have 12-2, 9-1 & 15-4 matches when all i need to do is run a cloak and charge the front lines, instead I could do this in 1.7 with positioning and skill. Using tactics and flanking to excel and not turn on a cloak. Others scout will say its about time, other scouts have no problem with being OP and running cloaks because its advantageous. It's the new skater Logi and its ruining the fundamentals of a scout. Player will still play the right way, but it is no longer necessary to play and be careful and selective. And that's a serious problem. @Rideson - of course a cloak is the way to go, but the cloak itself is not necessary for a scout to excel. Its a crutch used by those so they don't need to be aware of their surroundings. They simply jump right into the front lines or hack objectives with very little concern. 1.7 was more difficult for scouts than say slayer Logi or assault when not picking your routes and battles, yes. In 1.8 scouts got a second equipment slot, more suits to pick, increased slot layouts as well. These are boosts designed in combination with increased TTK to help scouts. How many times as a scout you thought you escaped only to think you've turned the corner and died, myself it happened many times. With slightly increased TTK this won't be as frequent, there is no need to use a cloak to get in or escape when scouts should be able to do this anyways (based on speed and skillful play). I use a cloak, why the hell not, its a huge advantage. It's not one that the scouts require however. I'm not a flavour of the month scout, i believe scouts should not be slayer logi's but still impact a match with kills, hacking and skillful positioning. I am not a new scout, nor do I care t be this frontline cloak *** new breed. I care for a balanced, diverse gameplay which rewards a low EHP/highly mobile class for playing a strategic and skillful game to excel. Not this blanket all scouts are slayers with cloaks bullshit. I've suffered as a scout since open beta, I've excelled as a slayer Logi too during that time, but you cannot tell me cloaks are required for a scout to excel or make a significant impact on a match. Scouts do very well in matches and should continue to thrive in that role after their boosts in 1.8. This do not require a cloak, your legs aren't broke scouts can run wild just fine.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 105	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:26:00 - [4] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: I don't understand the incredible complexities offered by the EVE universe but those who do are bad because they see tactical advantages that I do not. Tell an EVE pilot that cloaks serve no purpose and watch them petition to have you banned from their forums. Ill say it as I did yesterday. Awareness is OP, nerf eyesight. This isn't EVE. This is a FPS. The only relation between games is the developer. You cannot apply things from EVE to a FPS game as a justification for anything. Applying a cloak into a game which doesnt need it, a class which doesn't require it is uncalled for and only creates unbalance and bbullshit. You never disputed anything about cloaks, they usefulness or ability to dominate. My argument clearly shows that the cloak removes awareness. There's no reason to double check before waking in open, or hacking, or climbing. Cloak and make stupid decisions and they work out. Thats bulkshit. Learn how to play properly and take the right paths. Make the right decisions knowing you're a low eHP class and can't be caught in the open. Of scouts want to be the new slayer Logi, thats unfortunate. It shouldn't be the case, scout shouldn't have 6 k/d. They should use movement and strategy and kill to get kills and hack objectives. New Eden. Shared universe. Shared lore. Also, the developers aren't really the same. Eve is developed by CCP Iceland, whereas Dust is developed by CCP Shanghai. They are very different outfits it seems. Also, expect more stuff to come to Dust. Dust will need new content. Dust will need creative new content to survive, and this will mean mining the Eve/New Eden lore. Perhaps you should look elsewhere? You can keep your lore and your ridiculous story lines. If you want to play dust its not because you greatly care about made up bullshit. You play a game for enjoyment, challenge, and sometimes to kill time or frustration. It's not much to ask that the game be without too many bugs or lag or crashes. It's not too much to ask that gameplay be balanced and competitive for all. It's not too much to ask that the game should be kept in check by its players. When something gets introduced and its clearly unfair, unbalanced, not required and not needed to maintain a competitive gameplay for scouts then players should be upset. I am a scout, been one since open beta, never have I've seen such a ridiculous thing as cloaks. There's no reason for them. 1.8 introduced a buff to scouts (new classes, more slots etc) so why introduced a cloak to a class which doesn't require it, maybe all these scouts who saw slayer Logi expect scouts to be thst way, i don't know. Maybe all the scouts who weren't strategic and didn't wait for opportune times to flank and get the drop on opponents feel the cloak is the only answer to their poor gameplay, i don't know. But as a scout, i am saying there is no need for a cloak. There is a link between EVE but it cannot and shouldn't not be introduced unless its required/balanced. In this specific case, the scout do not need cloaks to excel nor should they need an excuse to cover up poor gameplay and positioning. Dust needs new content, there's plenty of great threads with suggestions. There are plenty of billion dollar FPS games to look at. There are so many great ideas even from CCP concerning weapons and grenades and vehicles. This specific cloaking equipment was a cool idea, but it isn't required. Scouts shouldn't need it to cover their mistakes, and if you wanted to add something to the scouts arsenal there were good ideas about gun silencers to make class more stealthy, or smoke/flash bangs which other games use to help scouts out slightly in their roles. A cloak isn't required and i feel that scouts should reconcile the lack of need and the lack of balance it creates. It covers for many short coming, improves things that shouldn't need addressing due to poor gameplay or lack of awareness. Yet all i see are scout defending the cloak much like tankers defend the tank. Most of us had it rough so why when we get it OP can't we recognize it?! Why can't scouts just admit its not required t excel and reject it for the good of the game? Don't act like tankers, don't act like a class oblivious to its role/impact/balance/needs. Scout should be better because we've had it rough and should stand up and say cloaks are required, take them away, let's keep our extra equipment slot and we will excel regardless.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 105	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:36:00 - [5] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Its real easy to see a moving cloak if its anywhere near you... and if it's standing still then they suffer from the same problem of every camper, an enemy has to arrive their at some point compounded by the issue that they will eventually be on CD I don't see how it's OP. That's what all you "It's easier to play on a 24" get, you can't see the obvious graphical nuances. Get on our HD level bro. I'm not arguing if its OP or not. I am arguing that the scout class doesn't need cloaks. I so think cloaks are OP but because they fix poor gameplay. Like situational awareness or poor pathng/engaging decisions. Cloaks are not meant to be this crutch that excuses terrible decisions. Cloaks can be seen and players will get better seeing cloaked scouts but with lag and poor frame rate issues, it surely doesn't help spot them. Cloaks provide an advantage to poor play, they aren't easy that easy to detect and frankly don't have to be for a 600-750 eHP scout to get the drop of you while charging the front lines. My argument is 1.8 provides significant upgrade to scouts, many of which are reasonable and for most needed to help. But cloaks are not required for a scout to excel. Movement, decision making, strategic positioning, timing, and skill should be the scout way. Making an impact via movement, flanking, objectives, killing should be the way. Charging the front lines and using a cloak to get an undeserved advantage should not.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 105	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:46:00 - [6] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: long winded rebuff. Clearly, not everyone agrees that the cloak is a problem. Please stop writing like you speak for everyone. I think variety and creativity are important for a game. I'm sorry you don't. But, I wasn't just expressing my opinion. Dust will get more gear, and it will come from the Eve/New Eden lore as it should. So, again, perhaps you should look elsewhere. I'm saying scouts deniers are morons, they are the new tanks. They can't recognize they got it too good. Scouts suffered before and excel now but it's not due to anything but advantage provided to them to cancel out their poor gameplay and terrible decision making. Many did quite fine in 1.7 and 1.8 provided new classes and more slot for goodies to help those suffering. Recognize cloaks are unneeded, don't be a tank fool who feels everything is fine being UP. You want to be the new slayer class, you want to do well now cause you sucked before? No one has given me a single argument for a cloak, nothing. Just terrible comparisons to how they sucked before and now are always top 3 in their games. You sucked for a reason, poor gameplay. Scouts in 1.7 could got 25-5 and could go 12-15, there's nothing wrong with that. Just cause you were **** in 1.7 and now have this unneeded new toy to cover your poor gameplay doesn't mean the new toy is a good thing. Scouts did well in 1.7 but dominate now, that's not how it should be. Don't be a tanker who doesn't see there is a major problem. Scouts got nice buffs in 1.8 and cloaks shouldn't have been included. Stop being the new tank class, admit cloaks are not required. Scouts are fine without them.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 105	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:13:00 - [7] - Quote Zirzo Valcyn wrote: instead of whining just kill the scouts who are cloaking and prove to them you are the better. did i come here and cry about the FOTM ADS pilots last week? no I fit a MLT railtank and showed them what piloting is really all about. I'm owning them just fine 9-1, 12-4 and 16-2 in my three games today. I haven't ran in NS or AE or a entire empire squad yet. I can put up numbers, I can back up my arguments, I can clearly see ****** 1.7 scouts doing well in 1.8 and I can for sure recognized cloaks are stupid. If you want to get your backs up against a wall because cloaks are your crutch and your saviour of your poor old 200-295 eHP scout then you're in denial. Just like tankers running x3 hardener who believe their class is legit. I've pointed out several flaws with cloaks and the reasoning why scouts don't need them to excel. Scouts are Logi type slayers and just because now you scout can kill everything and you love it doesn't mean i am wrong. It just means you don't want it to change. @rusty - my issue is not with brick scouts. If you want to build a 750 eHP light infantry then thats what you can do. Assault class is a joke and i believe the adaptability of scouts to fill the light infantry role is a good thing. If CCP provides the opportunity for a scout to fill a light infantry role and you see the need to run a bricked out Amare scout then you surely can. I never object to using what is provided. There's nothing wrong with Amarr scouts owning right now due to their ability to fill a role. I can see a problem with bricked out tanking scouts using cloaks, but not the build but rather the cloak. It provides advantages than are unwarranted and not needed.. It cancel or greatly diminishes serious mistakes done by scouts (positioning, timing, engagement, pathing) and instead provides them with an advantage to poor gameplay. @maxwell yes the Gal scouts are brick tanking too. I haven't really been killed by a Gal GK.0 tanked more than a few times, but Amarr and Cals are frequent and highly highly effective. I told a few Amarr's not to worry about 1.8 Amarr scouts, now I can hear their laughter and tears of joy as they run around the map slaying all. I would like to see how the new 1.8 scouts were played with their buffs before a cloak, and I have run it and its great. It's just no where near the excellence that is a cloaked scout slayer with 600 eHP.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 106	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:25:00 - [8] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: I'm saying scouts deniers are morons, they are the new tanks. They can't recognize they got it too good. Scouts suffered before and excel now but it's not due to anything but advantage provided to them to cancel out their poor gameplay and terrible decision making. Many did quite fine in 1.7 and 1.8 provided new classes and more slot for goodies to help those suffering. Recognize cloaks are unneeded, don't be a tank fool who feels everything is fine being UP. You want to be the new slayer class, you want to do well now cause you sucked before? No one has given me a single argument for a cloak, nothing. Just terrible comparisons to how they sucked before and now are always top 3 in their games. You sucked for a reason, poor gameplay. Scouts in 1.7 could got 25-5 and could go 12-15, there's nothing wrong with that. Just cause you were **** in 1.7 and now have this unneeded new toy to cover your poor gameplay doesn't mean the new toy is a good thing. Scouts did well in 1.7 but dominate now, that's not how it should be. Don't be a tanker who doesn't see there is a major problem. Scouts got nice buffs in 1.8 and cloaks shouldn't have been included. Stop being the new tank class, admit cloaks are not required. Scouts are fine without them. Let me actually address your statement here. Anyone claiming that everyone who doesn't think like you is a moron,, well, I think you know that's not only counterfactual but incredibly rude and short sighted. What I'll say regarding whether the cloak is OP or not is that it's too early to tell. Please, take some time and play the game and see how the community reacts. Two weeks minimum. Then start whining and calling other people names if you must, but right now, it's far too premature. Also, arguments stemming from "that's not how it should be use" are moot to begin with. I will not recognize that cloaks are unneeded. In fact I will say that Dust still needs tons more gear to be a viable, long term game. This is self evident. And as I've mentioned a few times now, these new items will come from examples in Eve and it's lore, and this is appropriate. Also, as evidenced elsewhere in your rambling posts, you are far too myopic and quick to place blame. I don't even play scouts. Yeah, read it again. I don't play scouts, so all your "you just want to be OP.." is pure BS. The game is not fine. The game needs more content. Cloaks are a valuable addition, but they will not be the last. So I say, once more, knowing this now: Perhaps you should be looking elsewhere for an FPS that meets your needs, because your needs seem to be out of step with Dust as it is now, and as it will be. I'm stating that like tank deniers, who feel their tanks are no Up and running x3 hardeners and being unkillable is how things are suppose to be... I'm comparing this to the new breed of slayer scouts who cloaks are a crutch. A way to cover up most if not glaring gameplay mistakes (or lack of skill). I'm saying like tankers who can make so many mistakes and they aren't serious effected because hardeners x3 cover their asses, that scouts use cloaks as such a function. It's not required for a scout to excel, just like x3 hardeners are not required for tanks to excel. Make a mistake while a scout, and there are many mistakes to be made, the cloaks covers your ass. It covers up poor gameplay, lack of skill, etc.. And everyone seems to love it. Cloaks are 95% positive by those inside the scout class, who now have the ability to slay like an old Logi slayer. I'm just trying to point out: 1. Cloaks aren't needed to excel as a scout. 2. Cloaks are a huge crutch for lack of skill. 3. Cloaks are not necessary and create unbalance. Scouts aren't going to acknowledge how good they've become and the 1.8 buffs help but the cloak is the primary reason for it. Scouts are running around with their heads cut off, no skill, no thought, just slaying. And scouts think this is right, i want to point out this isn't. We've had it hard so as a community of scouts we should recognize cloaks aren't required to be a competitive and even downright dominant class. There's a significant impact a scout can have in a match regardless of a cloak. It's not needed. Dust will get plenty more gear, weapons, vehicles, equipment... Cloaks aren't necessary for this to happen.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 107	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:40:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: Put your crutches away, remove cloaks and play scouts properly. Stuff about how you think everyone should play according to your self-appointed rules. Sandbox. Nuff said. Did he just appoint community wide rules? Haha, i am trying too at least have an honest conversation but every scout loves their new slayer roles so much they aren't going to recognize anything wrong. Tank deniers will deny to keep their UP status, why can't scouts keep their new slayer roles too? I would like to look at it objectively, i run a scout cloak (Cal, Gal, Min Scouts) and i recognize a problem. I know you must love your new Amarr scout but i still think you would do very well without a cloak. You have experience and knowledge to play and adapt and strategically move around. Things are just too enjoyable for most scouts (who have had some hard times before) to acknowledge their new reality. They got a boost and now they got cloaks.. The cloaks were not required.