DUST Search - Tiericide

DiablosMajora wrote:

General12912 wrote:

DiablosMajora wrote:

I'm not sure why this game was originally built with tiers, but this is getting out of hand.
Without at least some way to properly segment and separate the people who are using different tiers of fits, being pitched up against wave after wave of proto-anything and their ridiculous dps/tank/etc is just not good design.

My suggestions:
1) Begin implementing tiericide, ruthlessly, in every aspect. This fulfills the original design of getting things into *roles*.

2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto.

I'd be more in favor of suggestion 1, as it solves more problems and is more comprehensive for the future as well.

tiers is what makes this game stand out to me from other FPS games.

this isnt EVE, where everything is indirect, stat-based action anyways. the ability to directly control your character makes it possible to kill higher tiers. and then you have the fact that if everything was the same tier, then BPO's would be OP.

what do you mean BPOs would be OP?
tiers is what is ruining this game for me. why have two completely different doctrines for the way both games set in the same universe are played? you have a concept that works in EVE, why wouldn't it work just as well in DUST? never mind that EVE gameplay is overall slower, but if you have a defined role to excel at why is that a bad thing?
"silly player, why would you bother shooting an ADV shotty in my face a couple of times? I'm a proto sentinel with proto plates ;)))) have some proto hmg!"

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DiablosMajora Occultum Scientia Black Flame. 3	Posted - 2014.03.26 01:05:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not sure why this game was originally built with tiers, but this is getting out of hand. Without at least some way to properly segment and separate the people who are using different tiers of fits, being pitched up against wave after wave of proto-anything and their ridiculous dps/tank/etc is just not good design. My suggestions: 1) Begin implementing tiericide, ruthlessly, in every aspect. This fulfills the original design of getting things into roles. 2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto. I'd be more in favor of suggestion 1, as it solves more problems and is more comprehensive for the future as well. Prepare you angus
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 144	Posted - 2014.03.26 01:15:00 - [2] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: I'm not sure why this game was originally built with tiers, but this is getting out of hand. Without at least some way to properly segment and separate the people who are using different tiers of fits, being pitched up against wave after wave of proto-anything and their ridiculous dps/tank/etc is just not good design. My suggestions: 1) Begin implementing tiericide, ruthlessly, in every aspect. This fulfills the original design of getting things into roles. 2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto. I'd be more in favor of suggestion 1, as it solves more problems and is more comprehensive for the future as well. tiers is what makes this game stand out to me from other FPS games. this isnt EVE, where everything is indirect, stat-based action anyways. the ability to directly control your character makes it possible to kill higher tiers. and then you have the fact that if everything was the same tier, then BPO's would be OP. Assault Gk.0 Gallente Federation Patriot General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
DiablosMajora Occultum Scientia Black Flame. 3	Posted - 2014.03.26 01:39:00 - [3] - Quote General12912 wrote: DiablosMajora wrote: I'm not sure why this game was originally built with tiers, but this is getting out of hand. Without at least some way to properly segment and separate the people who are using different tiers of fits, being pitched up against wave after wave of proto-anything and their ridiculous dps/tank/etc is just not good design. My suggestions: 1) Begin implementing tiericide, ruthlessly, in every aspect. This fulfills the original design of getting things into roles. 2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto. I'd be more in favor of suggestion 1, as it solves more problems and is more comprehensive for the future as well. tiers is what makes this game stand out to me from other FPS games. this isnt EVE, where everything is indirect, stat-based action anyways. the ability to directly control your character makes it possible to kill higher tiers. and then you have the fact that if everything was the same tier, then BPO's would be OP. what do you mean BPOs would be OP? tiers is what is ruining this game for me. why have two completely different doctrines for the way both games set in the same universe are played? you have a concept that works in EVE, why wouldn't it work just as well in DUST? never mind that EVE gameplay is overall slower, but if you have a defined role to excel at why is that a bad thing? "silly player, why would you bother shooting an ADV shotty in my face a couple of times? I'm a proto sentinel with proto plates ;)))) have some proto hmg!" Prepare you angus
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 786	Posted - 2014.03.26 02:01:00 - [4] - Quote I will always support this until someone makes a convincing case otherwise. Looking for the scout hangout?
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 1003	Posted - 2014.03.26 03:08:00 - [5] - Quote Tanks are an example of tiericide gone wrong. There are only militia and standard vehicles, yet a militia fit Thats under 70k is just as effective as a fit Thats over 300k. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8908	Posted - 2014.03.26 03:18:00 - [6] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: I'm not sure why this game was originally built with tiers, but this is getting out of hand. Without at least some way to properly segment and separate the people who are using different tiers of fits, being pitched up against wave after wave of proto-anything and their ridiculous dps/tank/etc is just not good design. My suggestions: 1) Begin implementing tiericide, ruthlessly, in every aspect. This fulfills the original design of getting things into roles. 2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto. I'd be more in favor of suggestion 1, as it solves more problems and is more comprehensive for the future as well. Current HAV imbalances are a product or poor tiericide....be careful what you wish for. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
DiablosMajora Occultum Scientia Black Flame. 3	Posted - 2014.03.26 03:46:00 - [7] - Quote As per HAVs, I would argue that problem is much more manageable that having to balance three tiers of gear. Once you have one tier to work with things can be dealt with in a more efficient, systematic, and decisive manner. Prepare you angus
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 63	Posted - 2014.03.26 04:18:00 - [8] - Quote Quote: 2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto. after your idea is implemented wouldn't it be basic version specialist gear? I'm all for having only one version of of every thing and having skills boost them up to where the current prototype weapons perform. and the basic suits could have 1 bonus and the specialist could have 3 however they would all have the same slot configuration and HP tho the specialist would have better fitting on its gear. it would be nice if the weapon skill tree and the turret skill tree was built just like the gunnery skill tree in eve online. I could give you 10 reason why the Dust team cant get the Amarr tank style right but they are all out of care.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 145	Posted - 2014.03.26 05:00:00 - [9] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: General12912 wrote: DiablosMajora wrote: I'm not sure why this game was originally built with tiers, but this is getting out of hand. Without at least some way to properly segment and separate the people who are using different tiers of fits, being pitched up against wave after wave of proto-anything and their ridiculous dps/tank/etc is just not good design. My suggestions: 1) Begin implementing tiericide, ruthlessly, in every aspect. This fulfills the original design of getting things into roles. 2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto. I'd be more in favor of suggestion 1, as it solves more problems and is more comprehensive for the future as well. tiers is what makes this game stand out to me from other FPS games. this isnt EVE, where everything is indirect, stat-based action anyways. the ability to directly control your character makes it possible to kill higher tiers. and then you have the fact that if everything was the same tier, then BPO's would be OP. what do you mean BPOs would be OP? tiers is what is ruining this game for me. why have two completely different doctrines for the way both games set in the same universe are played? you have a concept that works in EVE, why wouldn't it work just as well in DUST? never mind that EVE gameplay is overall slower, but if you have a defined role to excel at why is that a bad thing? "silly player, why would you bother shooting an ADV shotty in my face a couple of times? I'm a proto sentinel with proto plates ;)))) have some proto hmg!" because there already is a way to excel in roles. its called tiers. and BPO's would be OP because every tier would be the same. Bpo's are already in that tier, so instead of the BPO being a free standard suit, it will be a free suit period. an infinite supply of the best level suit available. Assault Gk.0 Gallente Federation Patriot General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1245	Posted - 2014.03.26 05:15:00 - [10] - Quote A few points: 1. FCK no! 2. You're using "tiericide" very differently than how it was implemented in EVE. The DUST equivalent of what eve did would be making sure Commandos and Sentinals were roughly equivalent in their respective roles, or Logi and Assault were roughly equivalent. That's what was done in EVE. There are still tiers in EVE: look at the Omen vs. Navy Omen vs. Zealot vs. Legion. And modules have an even bigger meta range than they do in DUST. You're completely wrong about how tiericide works in EVE. 3. This would ruin the risk vs. reward dynamic in DUST. It is the most interesting and compelling feature this game has to offer. Go cheap and build ISK, or go expensive and take big losses. You have the freedom to decide. Blowing up other people's shiny fits is insanely gratifying compared to a "tiericided" game like BF4, COD, PS2, Halo, etc. where nothing really matters. Spawn, kill, die, respawn, repeat. See a group of enemies, charge in, who cares if you live or die, take out as many as you can. It's fcking stupid. 4. Making matches tiered by gear is also fcking stupid. Having better gear is only useful if it's actually better than something else. This defeats the whole point. Also killing expensive suits using cheap ones is half the fun of DUST. 5. Making ISK-efficiency the most important/respected stat on the leader boards should be a major priority. Isk value of what you destroyed minus the ISK value of what you lost. This would help a lot with protostomping. And would work as a good balancing metric for vehicle prices as well. 6. The ACTUAL problem that needs to be addressed is new players not being able to compete, and being butchered and leaving. This shouldn't be fixed by ruining the "endgame" experience for vets and "pssing in the special sauce" that makes DUST compelling. This can easily be solved with an optional game mode, a 2nd tier academy limited to players under some SP threshold (maybe around 5mill SP). At that point they should have enough SP to compete reasonably with the "big boys." Best PvE idea ever!

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1887	Posted - 2014.03.26 07:15:00 - [11] - Quote 1. Unlock STD/ADV/PRO dropsuits and weapons at operation skill 1/2/3. 2. Make basic suits have more flexibility (more slots, more CPU and PG). 3. Add specialized dropsuits that come rigged with modules that have higher effectiveness (than a complex mod) for a certain role. But this kind of specialized dropsuit should have less slots than the basic suits. This is in line with the EVE system, and should be implemented asap. 4. Keep the specialization skill. Drop it like its hat.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1061	Posted - 2014.03.26 09:10:00 - [12] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: I'm not sure why this game was originally built with tiers, but this is getting out of hand. Without at least some way to properly segment and separate the people who are using different tiers of fits, being pitched up against wave after wave of proto-anything and their ridiculous dps/tank/etc is just not good design. My suggestions: 1) Begin implementing tiericide, ruthlessly, in every aspect. This fulfills the original design of getting things into roles. 2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto. I'd be more in favor of suggestion 1, as it solves more problems and is more comprehensive for the future as well. Repeat every single time you have a silly idea about balance in Dust514. There is No Matchmaking In Dust514. Never has been and there are no announced plans to implement it. Maybe it can happen when there are enough players, but that is for later. Now is just for QQs. And so it goes.
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 51	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:08:00 - [13] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: I'm not sure why this game was originally built with tiers, but this is getting out of hand. Without at least some way to properly segment and separate the people who are using different tiers of fits, being pitched up against wave after wave of proto-anything and their ridiculous dps/tank/etc is just not good design. My suggestions: 1) Begin implementing tiericide, ruthlessly, in every aspect. This fulfills the original design of getting things into roles. 2) Properly implement way to segment the population so - MLT faces MLT, Basic v Basic, Adv v Adv, and Proto v Proto. I'd be more in favor of suggestion 1, as it solves more problems and is more comprehensive for the future as well. There are tons of good Ideas out there in the forums, regarding the ever growing torture that is proto-stomping and alternatives to Tiericide. I liked that one especially: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120145
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 2053	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:25:00 - [14] - Quote Do away with all mlt std and adv sits. Unlocking cal logi for example will give you a suit equivalent to the current pro in slot layout and cpu pg. However the more points you invest into it it will be better. That way a new player can have a decent slot layout even if they are using all basic module on the suit. This will go a long way in alleviating so called proto stomping. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!


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