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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1232
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
1.8 has brought us many fun new toys to play with and some much needed balancing, but somehow a weapon has escaped balancing altogether. It's not the RR, no, the RR does a reasonable amount of damage now. It still excels at mid-to-long range engagements; which is working as intended.
You probably already know what I am going to say, don't you? Yes, the CR. This broken rifle appears to still be instantly melting anything in it's path, even shield tankers like myself, it's supposed weakness.
So CCP, let's try this again, please keep the CR from being an I Win button. It's okay for it to be powerful at PRO tiers, but it's annihilating anyone at STD level and that's just not cool.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
3714
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would be shocked if the community speaks up about the CR. I think they are clueless about it...
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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Pvt Numnutz
R 0 N 1 N
1026
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Damn it... |
pseudosnipre
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
627
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Range on the standard CR is garbage, try engaging from further away? It also makes it less likely that you will continue to eat shots to the face and experience dumfoundedness. Dumbfoundedness is a word I made up to describe your unique emotional experience. You're welcome.
QQ makes my clone sad. Besides, the only QQ I hear from the popular kids is "the rail rifle is still killing me in its optimal range, nerf it harder!"
so logic, much crying. Wow
Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Bittervet turkey says GOML GOML GOML
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2357
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah I've been using it all day long.
Instead of my ScR for which I have Amarr Assault 5.
Oh well. Still glad I bought the suit :)
ak.0 4 LYFE
Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1645
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
The CR should melt things at CQ, but it does seem to be doing that at too far a range. Minmatar weapons are supposed to be deadly up close with a small optimal. After that they trail off to less damage at falloff or effective range.
They are supposed to have a big range, but that is falloff range. Whereas blasters have a longer optimal range albeit a short range.
Before anyone says lore and EVE don't matter GÇô yes they do matter. This whole game is based on and is an extension of the racial combat philosophies. Otherwise, why slap EVE on the title and have it take place in New Eden?
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1232
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:The CR should melt things at CQ, but it does seem to be doing that at too far a range. Minmatar weapons are supposed to be deadly up close with a small optimal.
THAT is how I picture the CR working: up close it shreds, but it's damage decreases sharply the father away you are.
Meanwhile, the RR has a "blindspot" around it due to the spool up time, making it a poor choice for CQC.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1232
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
pseudosnipre wrote:QQ makes my clone sad. Besides, the only QQ I hear from the popular kids is "the rail rifle is still killing me in its optimal range, nerf it harder!"
I found myself pumping round after round into mercs today with my rail rifle and them not exploding into bits... which was actually what I wanted to see. I should not have a weapon that insta-gibs people.
Every CR encounter I had was decidedly NOT so balanced.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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pseudosnipre
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
627
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:pseudosnipre wrote:QQ makes my clone sad. Besides, the only QQ I hear from the popular kids is "the rail rifle is still killing me in its optimal range, nerf it harder!" I found myself pumping round after round into mercs today with my rail rifle and them not exploding into bits... which was actually what I wanted to see. I should not have a weapon that insta-gibs people. Every CR encounter I had was decidedly NOT so balanced.
I agree, but they're the cool kids...what can ya do?
Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Bittervet turkey says GOML GOML GOML
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Patrlck 56
350
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Really? I was having a lot of trouble earlier killing a Proto Caldari Scout with my Combat Rifle... but it's still OP.
Best hatemail
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1232
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Patrlck 56 wrote:Really? I was having a lot of trouble earlier killing a Proto Caldari Scout with my Combat Rifle... but it's still OP.
Scouts are slippery. I'm in an assault and I just lost my +10% shield extender efficacy bonus. I watched in horror as wave after wave of Gallente scouts with CR murdered dozens of people every match with impunity.
I am not usually one for claiming X weapon or X dropsuit is a crutch. I mean, sometimes someone is just plain better with that weapon or dropsuits... but in this case the weapon does seem to be doing a lot of the work. It's fast, it has a respectable range, scope, and burst fire.
Maybe it was just because it is Tuesday and all of the proto-stomping corps are on. I will try again on Sunday and see how I do.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1232
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
pseudosnipre wrote:I agree, but they're the cool kids...what can ya do?
I guess just die a lot to CR's and hope CCP is gathering data on them, notices the trend of deaths vs. CR and makes an adjustment? That's all I know to do.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Nosid Katona
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
136
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:The CR should melt things at CQ, but it does seem to be doing that at too far a range. Minmatar weapons are supposed to be deadly up close with a small optimal. After that they trail off to less damage at falloff or effective range.
They are supposed to have a big range, but that is falloff range. Whereas blasters have a longer optimal range albeit a short range.
Before anyone says lore and EVE don't matter GÇô yes they do matter. This whole game is based on and is an extension of the racial combat philosophies. Otherwise, why slap EVE on the title and have it take place in New Eden?
I thought that was supposed to be Blasters, low range high damage CQC masters with falloff that limits their range. If CR is supposed to be king close, with SCR king at mid or 1v1 engaments, and RR is king of long range, where does that leave the Blaster or AR?
Vae Victis
Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1926
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Posted - 2014.03.26 01:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
pseudosnipre wrote:Range on the standard CR is garbage, try engaging from further away? It also makes it less likely that you will continue to eat shots to the face and experience dumfoundedness. Dumbfoundedness is a word I made up to describe your unique emotional experience. You're welcome.
QQ makes my clone sad. Besides, the only QQ I hear from the popular kids is "the rail rifle is still killing me in its optimal range, nerf it harder!"
so logic, much crying. Wow
The resistances are insane and it performs better than the AR at its optimal.
A fix is needed.
Also, the doge meme is one of the worst out there. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1236
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 12:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nosid Katona wrote:I thought that was supposed to be Blasters, low range high damage CQC masters with falloff that limits their range. If CR is supposed to be king close, with SCR king at mid or 1v1 engaments, and RR is king of long range, where does that leave the Blaster or AR?
Blasters and projectile weaponry fulfill similar roles as close-to-mid range weapons. However, remember that projectile is anti-armor, blaster is anti-shield...
...in the CR's case: anti-everything-that-has-lived-or-ever-will-live
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
1181
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Posted - 2014.03.26 12:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
pseudosnipre wrote:Range on the standard CR is garbage, try engaging from further away? It also makes it less likely that you will continue to eat shots to the face and experience dumfoundedness. Dumbfoundedness is a word I made up to describe your unique emotional experience. You're welcome.
QQ makes my clone sad. Besides, the only QQ I hear from the popular kids is "the rail rifle is still killing me in its optimal range, nerf it harder!"
so logic, much crying. Wow
Wow, your upset people see how broken the CR is huh? Trying to defend your crutch?
IMO it needs a longer delay between bursts, similar to the Burst AR but maybe a little shorter than that |
steadyhand amarr
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
2739
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ccp balances by data so if the CC starts going over the top it will get hit hard, im more inclidned to belive its bug and still has the old base damage buff applied
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
1217
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
you are all late, this was certain when the devs posted the new weapon stats  basic math skills, you lack them.
beside that, there are alot more important issues in 1.8 than "I DIE TO CR CAUSE I SUCK PLS NERF", you can expect that the CR will stay like that for atleast a month. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1239
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Ccp balances by data so if the CR starts going over the top it will get hit hard, I'm more inclined to believe its bug and still has the old base damage buff applied
Surely CCP wouldn't miss something like that... would they?...
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1245
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 13:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:You are all late, this was certain when the devs posted the new weapon stats basic math skills, you lack them.
I saw the numbers in the 1.7 devblog, and then again in the 1.8 devblog, but I tend to withhold judgement until I see the weapon in action. After seeing it in action I can say the number cruncher's suspicions have been confirmed.
Jack McReady wrote:Beside that, there are a lot more important issues in 1.8 than "I DIE TO CR CAUSE I SUCK PLS NERF",
Why is it that when someone makes an argument against something the first thing people assume it that the person issuing the complaint is bad at Dust? The CR is outperforming other weapons in the same category, hell, even you admitted the CR's numbers were suspect in your own post. Yet you feel the need to put someone down for complaining about a broken weapon...
Oh, and people in my squads are also complaining about the CR, I just happen to be the only one who visits the forums on a regular basis. One of my out-of-game friends uses the CR and even he admits that it is a beastly weapon, but he's a "ride the gravy train while you can" kind of guy.
Jack McReady wrote:you can expect that the CR will stay like that for at least a month.
You are probably right. CCP doesn't hotfix things very quickly. Until they do I'll keep putting up with it. I mean, I've been managing since 1.7 went live so I can make it a bit longer... it just sucks now because almost every other weapon in the same class has been nerfed.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
696
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Ccp balances by data so if the CC starts going over the top it will get hit hard, im more inclidned to belive its bug and still has the old base damage buff applied
CC?
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1649
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Posted - 2014.03.26 13:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nosid Katona wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:The CR should melt things at CQ, but it does seem to be doing that at too far a range. Minmatar weapons are supposed to be deadly up close with a small optimal. After that they trail off to less damage at falloff or effective range.
They are supposed to have a big range, but that is falloff range. Whereas blasters have a longer optimal range albeit a short range.
Before anyone says lore and EVE don't matter GÇô yes they do matter. This whole game is based on and is an extension of the racial combat philosophies. Otherwise, why slap EVE on the title and have it take place in New Eden? I thought that was supposed to be Blasters, low range high damage CQC masters with falloff that limits their range. If CR is supposed to be king close, with SCR king at mid or 1v1 engaments, and RR is king of long range, where does that leave the Blaster or AR?
Blasters have high tracking and a short range. They do full damage at most of that range with minimal falloff. The Minny turrets have high RoF and have greater range, but most of that range is falloff. The optimal is shorter than the blaster full range or at least the same amount. I'm sure things have been tweaked since I last played EVE. That is the general philosophy of the turret types though.
"Stay stealthy scouts."
GÇô Ron Burgundy
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Emperor1349
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
53
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
You miss one burst with the CR and your numbers mean nothing. Unlike a full auto where you have the opportunity to correct your aim and only waste a few rounds of the clip.
R.I.P Mag - SVER
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Dirt Nap Squad.
1391
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Posted - 2014.03.26 16:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:The CR should melt things at CQ, but it does seem to be doing that at too far a range. Minmatar weapons are supposed to be deadly up close with a small optimal. After that they trail off to less damage at falloff or effective range.
They are supposed to have a big range, but that is falloff range. Whereas blasters have a longer optimal range albeit a short range.
Before anyone says lore and EVE don't matter GÇô yes they do matter. This whole game is based on and is an extension of the racial combat philosophies. Otherwise, why slap EVE on the title and have it take place in New Eden?
rail guns have been shite in eve online for the better part of 18 months. anything called a 'rail' is something to stay away from in my experience. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1251
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 17:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Emperor1349 wrote:You miss one burst with the CR and your numbers mean nothing. Unlike a full auto where you have the opportunity to correct your aim and only waste a few rounds of the clip.
If you just squeeze the trigger and pray in 1.8 the RR walks up like a sonofabitch. You should perform short bursts if you ever hope to hit anything.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Nosid Katona
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
137
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Posted - 2014.03.26 21:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Nosid Katona wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:The CR should melt things at CQ, but it does seem to be doing that at too far a range. Minmatar weapons are supposed to be deadly up close with a small optimal. After that they trail off to less damage at falloff or effective range.
They are supposed to have a big range, but that is falloff range. Whereas blasters have a longer optimal range albeit a short range.
Before anyone says lore and EVE don't matter GÇô yes they do matter. This whole game is based on and is an extension of the racial combat philosophies. Otherwise, why slap EVE on the title and have it take place in New Eden? I thought that was supposed to be Blasters, low range high damage CQC masters with falloff that limits their range. If CR is supposed to be king close, with SCR king at mid or 1v1 engaments, and RR is king of long range, where does that leave the Blaster or AR? Blasters have high tracking and a short range. They do full damage at most of that range with minimal falloff. The Minny turrets have high RoF and have greater range, but most of that range is falloff. The optimal is shorter than the blaster full range or at least the same amount. I'm sure things have been tweaked since I last played EVE. That is the general philosophy of the turret types though.
This still doesn't answer my other question, if CR is CQC, Scrambler mid/1v1, and rail is long range, where does this leave the AR? Where does it excell that others do not?
A note though; Please don't give me the whole "good at everything, master of none" line either as this is untrue and kind of getting old. The AR right now is a "Decent at a couple things, bad at most" to be quite honest.
Edit: Errors fixed.
Vae Victis
Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1263
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Posted - 2014.03.26 23:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nosid Katona wrote:This still doesn't answer my other question, if CR is CQC, Scrambler mid/1v1, and rail is long range, where does this leave the AR? Where does it excel that others do not?
The AR is underperforming right now.
Let's compare the Duvolle Assault Rifle to the Boundless Combat Rifle...
The CR has: more DPS, better optimal range, better accuracy rating, faster reload speed, and requires less PG/CPU.
The AR has: a larger clip by 4 rounds.
So I feel for AR users. I'm not completely sure the AR needed as hard of a damage nerf as it got. I feel the combat rifle needs it's optimal reduced by 20% and it's fitting requirements brought closer to the AR's as well. That's where I would start, but I don't have the data CCP has at their fingertips.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Nosid Katona
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
137
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Posted - 2014.03.27 00:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Nosid Katona wrote:This still doesn't answer my other question, if CR is CQC, Scrambler mid/1v1, and rail is long range, where does this leave the AR? Where does it excel that others do not? The AR is underperforming right now. Let's compare the Duvolle Assault Rifle to the Boundless Combat Rifle... The CR has: more DPS, better optimal range, better accuracy rating, faster reload speed, and requires less PG/CPU. The AR has: a larger clip by 4 rounds. So I feel for AR users. I'm not completely sure the AR needed as hard of a damage nerf as it got. I feel the combat rifle needs it's optimal reduced by 20% and it's fitting requirements brought closer to the AR's as well. That's where I would start, but I don't have the data CCP has at their fingertips.
At least we agree the AR is underperforming.
Honestly I know people, one who is very vocal who will remain anonymous, that are glad the AR is where it is. They usualy respond with "Good, it was king for so long it should suck for at lest a year if not indefinitely." it annoys me. Honestly I will reapply behind things I think needs tweaking or buffing yet the second I ask for my role or weapon to be balanced I am being selfish and "Just another assault with an AR who wants to be the best at everything." I'm not, I just want my role to have a place. :/
Vae Victis
Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
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