DUST Search - Heavies are getting nerfed

Michael Cratar wrote:

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

CCP Logibro wrote:

With the Uprising 1.8 Deployment, we are also looking at some additional hotfixes in the near future.

Caldari Scout CK.0 and Caldari 'Neo' Scout CK.0 have switched skill requirements.
Further internal playtesting has shown that the heavy EHP is too high, and it will be lowered (likely by about 20%, but this is to be confirmed).

This thread will be updated with more hotfixes as they are created.

How is heavy EHP too high?? We are not medium suits we are heavy suits. We are not invincible either, Ive been getting melted all day. You give me resistances and then you take away EHP. Might as well not given the resistances at all .

20% EHP debuff??? I really don't know anymore what CCP is trying to achieve with the heavy. You want us to be medium suits?? is that it? Out of everything in the game, this is what gets the most attention from CCP? heavies being a bit difficult to kill?

I am really losing it here. I have tried so hard to keep my hopes up but this is going too far. A heavy with too much EHP!!!! I would have never thought. Please CCP play in the wild not internal playtesting. Internal playtesting was what had you nerf the mass driver to the ground and got the community so angry that they made a threadnaught. Or have you forgotten how that went?

Seriously a heavy with too much EHP, as if they where difficult to kill at all. I was hoping that maybe tank spam would be a more serious issue to beaddressed but, apparently heavies that are slow and easy target from afar are ruining dust. I am sorry if this sounds like a rant but it is. With so many obvious problems that you let ride for months from 1.7, you want to kill the heavy class in 1.8 before it even gets started.... RLLY???

INTERESTING FACT

The overall weapon nerf was of about 20%. The hardest hit weapon was the RR with a 15% nerf; they modified damage mods to be 5% instead of 10% at complex level. Thats a total of 20% damage nerf to the weapons that where hit the hardest.

With these numbers now CCP wants to nerf the heavy EHP by 20% which will in fact make it like there where no changes to heavies and put them back in uprising 1.7 level. Being killed in an instant by a rail rifle at 70 meters away.

INTERESTING FACT #2

Since heavies only have resistances to certain damage types and, each heavy can be countered by using the damage type the heavy isn't resistant to; a 20% nerf to their EHP will actually make the heavies weaker than they where in 1.7.

This cannot be permitted to happen. HEAVIES UNITE!

MASS DRIVER INCIDENT

Those who don't remember the mass driver threadnaught, here is the link

Here is one of my posts that included them talking about how they changed the mass driver due to internal playtesting. If they learned anything from that problem was that internal playtesting does not show the reality of playing in the wild

Disclaimer: they nerfed the mass driver and then had to change it back to close of how it was

APOLOGY

I want to apologize for being ranty. I was so frustrated to see the the post about heavies being nerfed That i just couldn't hold myself back. After 1.7 that nearly made me quit the game, seeing the heavy as it should be was a breath of fresh air. It's balanced at range and king of CQC. It can get killed easily but it's not as easy as it used to be. Any change, any at all, would break it again.

An don't go thinking about changing the HMG just because internal testing said this or that. People will start using RR again if this is done and that would break the game even more

DON'T PRESS LIKE; REPLY

If you like the thread don't press the like button. Post a reply because Like get me nowhere but a reply, even if it's a Plus one give the thread exposure. If you like it, it means you want other people and CCP to see it. SO it's in the best interest of the community not to press the like button but press the reply button with your thoughts.

Considering it takes a whole team to kill a good heavy this is a well deserved nerf. Its that or the hmg. Take your pick.


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XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1124	Posted - 2014.03.25 22:32:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: With the Uprising 1.8 Deployment, we are also looking at some additional hotfixes in the near future. Caldari Scout CK.0 and Caldari 'Neo' Scout CK.0 have switched skill requirements. Further internal playtesting has shown that the heavy EHP is too high, and it will be lowered (likely by about 20%, but this is to be confirmed). This thread will be updated with more hotfixes as they are created. How is heavy EHP too high?? We are not medium suits we are heavy suits. We are not invincible either, Ive been getting melted all day. You give me resistances and then you take away EHP. Might as well not given the resistances at all . 20% EHP debuff??? I really don't know anymore what CCP is trying to achieve with the heavy. You want us to be medium suits?? is that it? Out of everything in the game, this is what gets the most attention from CCP? heavies being a bit difficult to kill? I am really losing it here. I have tried so hard to keep my hopes up but this is going too far. A heavy with too much EHP!!!! I would have never thought. Please CCP play in the wild not internal playtesting. Internal playtesting was what had you nerf the mass driver to the ground and got the community so angry that they made a threadnaught. Or have you forgotten how that went? Seriously a heavy with too much EHP, as if they where difficult to kill at all. I was hoping that maybe tank spam would be a more serious issue to beaddressed but, apparently heavies that are slow and easy target from afar are ruining dust. I am sorry if this sounds like a rant but it is. With so many obvious problems that you let ride for months from 1.7, you want to kill the heavy class in 1.8 before it even gets started.... RLLY??? Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1127	Posted - 2014.03.25 22:43:00 - [2] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Ghaz ... they probably did that to keep the number of heavies down and it becoming the FOTY . I have seen far more heavies then ever and I'm sure with the tempo and info CCP understood that so changing a few things for them was kind of necessary , to even out the roles and the game so it wouldn't be over saturated with heavies . You are class act and any info coming from yourself and " The Judge " is valued . Keep up the good work . Heavies I respect you a great deal because I am one of you , sometimes but that better than not at all . It's going to work out in the long run . The Light weaponry nerf all but killed the heavy with light weapon FOTM because now you have to use an HMG to get the juice out of the heavy. And the HMG is only good till about 14 meters at it's optimal 31 meters, it doing 50% of the damage it's supposed to do. The heavy is finally balanced; npt overpowered and not underpowered. Very good at CQC where CCP wanted it and horrible at long range. Any change in the current values and they break it again. Furthermore, their internal playtesting has already broken the mass driver because it did not resemble the way it worked in the wild. Now the sentinel will be broken too because of the same mistake. PLEASE CCP don't make the same mistake again Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1130	Posted - 2014.03.25 22:56:00 - [3] - Quote We have to let CCP know we are against any changes to the heavy. They are balanced and internal testing does not reflect gamepley. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1135	Posted - 2014.03.25 23:43:00 - [4] - Quote Lets keep the feedback coming. I know I was a bit ranty in my first post but it has never been so imperative that CCP listen to us Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1139	Posted - 2014.03.26 00:19:00 - [5] - Quote If you like the thread, dont hit the like button but hit the reply button and give the thread exposure. Even if it's a +1 CCP needs to know how we feel about this. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1140	Posted - 2014.03.26 00:44:00 - [6] - Quote INTERESTING FACT The overall weapon nerf was of about 20%. The hardest hit weapon was the RR with a 15% nerf; they modified damage mods to be 5% instead of 10% at complex level. Thats a total of 20% damage nerf to the weapons that where hit the hardest. With these numbers now CCP wants to nerf the heavy EHP by 20% which will in fact make no changes to heavies and put them back in uprising 1.7 level. Being killed in an instant by a rail rifle at 70 meters away. This cannot be permitted to happen. HEAVIES UNITE! Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1147	Posted - 2014.03.26 01:14:00 - [7] - Quote INTERESTING FACT #2 r Since heavies only have resistances to certain damage types and each heavy can be counter by using the damage type the heavy isn't resistant to a 20% nerf to, their EHP will actually make the heavies weaker than they where in 1.7. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1152	Posted - 2014.03.26 01:42:00 - [8] - Quote Firelink Breton wrote: After reading I say that this REALLY needs exposure. Ihave also noticed no one talk about the god awful minmitar heavies. We are a crappy assault and a crappy heavy. A 20% health down is like putting us to our knees and executing us. definitely needs lots of exposure Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1153	Posted - 2014.03.26 02:08:00 - [9] - Quote keep it coming guys, lets keep this on the first pae. CCP must be shown how we feel so they don't nerf the heavy class that is finally where it needs to be. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1157	Posted - 2014.03.26 03:02:00 - [10] - Quote Ace Starburst wrote: Aww yeah fokes, Heavy Pride. www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWo2cms4jHQ The fat man waddle xDDDD.... But I feel this way everytime I try to cross the street in DUST. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1157	Posted - 2014.03.26 03:44:00 - [11] - Quote Regnier Feros wrote: Shoutout to the MINMATAR HEAVIES! Shout brotha for all heavy KIND Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1163	Posted - 2014.03.26 04:20:00 - [12] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Link to original thread CCP Logibro wrote: With the Uprising 1.8 Deployment, we are also looking at some additional hotfixes in the near future. Caldari Scout CK.0 and Caldari 'Neo' Scout CK.0 have switched skill requirements. Further internal playtesting has shown that the heavy EHP is too high, and it will be lowered (likely by about 20%, but this is to be confirmed). This thread will be updated with more hotfixes as they are created. How is heavy EHP too high?? We are not medium suits we are heavy suits. We are not invincible either, Ive been getting melted all day. You give me resistances and then you take away EHP. Might as well not given the resistances at all . 20% EHP debuff??? I really don't know anymore what CCP is trying to achieve with the heavy. You want us to be medium suits?? is that it? Out of everything in the game, this is what gets the most attention from CCP? heavies being a bit difficult to kill? I am really losing it here. I have tried so hard to keep my hopes up but this is going too far. A heavy with too much EHP!!!! I would have never thought. Please CCP play in the wild not internal playtesting. Internal playtesting was what had you nerf the mass driver to the ground and got the community so angry that they made a threadnaught. Or have you forgotten how that went? Seriously a heavy with too much EHP, as if they where difficult to kill at all. I was hoping that maybe tank spam would be a more serious issue to beaddressed but, apparently heavies that are slow and easy target from afar are ruining dust. I am sorry if this sounds like a rant but it is. With so many obvious problems that you let ride for months from 1.7, you want to kill the heavy class in 1.8 before it even gets started.... RLLY??? INTERESTING FACT The overall weapon nerf was of about 20%. The hardest hit weapon was the RR with a 15% nerf; they modified damage mods to be 5% instead of 10% at complex level. Thats a total of 20% damage nerf to the weapons that where hit the hardest. With these numbers now CCP wants to nerf the heavy EHP by 20% which will in fact make it like there where no changes to heavies and put them back in uprising 1.7 level. Being killed in an instant by a rail rifle at 70 meters away. INTERESTING FACT #2 Since heavies only have resistances to certain damage types and, each heavy can be countered by using the damage type the heavy isn't resistant to; a 20% nerf to their EHP will actually make the heavies weaker than they where in 1.7. This cannot be permitted to happen. HEAVIES UNITE! MASS DRIVER INCIDENT Those who don't remember the mass driver threadnaught, here is the link Here is one of my posts that included them talking about how they changed the mass driver due to internal playtesting. If they learned anything from that problem was that internal playtesting does not show the reality of playing in the wild Disclaimer: they nerfed the mass driver and then had to change it back to close of how it was APOLOGY I want to apologize for being ranty. I was so frustrated to see the the post about heavies being nerfed That i just couldn't hold myself back. After 1.7 that nearly made me quit the game, seeing the heavy as it should be was a breath of fresh air. It's balanced at range and king of CQC. It can get killed easily but it's not as easy as it used to be. Any change, any at all, would break it again. An don't go thinking about changing the HMG just because internal testing said this or that. People will start using RR again if this is done and that would break the game even more DON'T PRESS LIKE; REPLY If you like the thread don't press the like button. Post a reply because Like get me nowhere but a reply, even if it's a Plus one give the thread exposure. If you like it, it means you want other people and CCP to see it. SO it's in the best interest of the community not to press the like button but press the reply button with your thoughts. Considering it takes a whole team to kill a good heavy this is a well deserved nerf. Its that or the hmg. Take your pick. A whole team to kill a heavy??? what are you using FLAYLOCKS?? Seriously wrong thread to troll in. Not today. Today I am mad and today i have reason on my side. If you can't solo a heavy your doing it wrong because I have soloed heavy today with light, medium and heavy suits. I have all proto heavy with profi five HMG and I am telling you that heavies are not unkillable and certainly do not need a whole squadt to kill them. Get good or get back under the bridge. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1164	Posted - 2014.03.26 04:42:00 - [13] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: My 1.7 proto heavy had a 10% D-mod in the high slot, maxed HMG skills, a boundless HMG, and sported 600 shields with 1193 armor, backed by a dedicated proto logi player repping me with a core focused repair tool and occasionally hives. I never encountered anyone who claimed this was OP, and this is basically the absolute pinnacle of what 1.7 heavies could accomplish with maxed fitting skills. With the 20% EHP nerf, the 1.8 heavies will be weaker then 1.7 heavies, and I don't understand this. Not to mention the repair tool range nerf that makes our logi's die a lot more; and the core focused repair tool nerfed you have heavies that will be a lot more vulnerable. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1167	Posted - 2014.03.26 05:33:00 - [14] - Quote We can do this; We must be heard. Let not one heavy suffer! Make your voice heard. Say It loud and say it proud! Don't nerf My HEAVY, It just got a new paint job Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1167	Posted - 2014.03.26 05:48:00 - [15] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: While most heavies didn't pose a challenge, I did encounter a heavy that took 4 point blank shotgun shots, before he turned around and absolutely melted me. I'm still mad about it, considering it was my only death in a 50 kills match. Shotguns have a hit detection bug. I Shot a std cad assault 5 times and only the third registered and I died. He either awful at the game or panicked. Safe to say shotgun has some hit detection issues. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1167	Posted - 2014.03.26 05:52:00 - [16] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Even though I don't agree to a ground nerf you do have flawed math. Your point: "With these numbers now CCP wants to nerf the heavy EHP by 20% which will in fact make it like there where no changes to heavies and put them back in uprising 1.7 level." That's 20% less EHP compared to the current stats. 20% of number "x" is completely different from number "y" The only difference heavies have now is the damage resistances. Their HP is no different. If you looked at the stats, the HP justgot juggled around on a per race basis. For example, they too from the shield of the amarr sentinel to put the same amount of HP on The armor. The pverall HP is exactly the same and is only modified by slot layouts with maximum armor potential going to gallente by a small margin but That HP is not more than what was possible on the 1.7 amarr sentinel. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1172	Posted - 2014.03.26 07:42:00 - [17] - Quote LuckyLuke Wargan wrote: Nerf the heavy, and I am done with this fracking game. I always said when I get a ps4 I would stop playing Dust if it was still a load of bullcrap. Well I got a PS4, but I am still playing bullcrap. 2 years of BS CCP... 2 years of patch this, break that, add content, but don't fix the old, buff this, nerf that........ENOUGH!!! I have only recently discovered the joys of running heavy and this is the only thing that has slightly renewed my interest in Dust. (see an option to respec once in a while to renew interest in players for trying different things would be great for the life of dust but nooooooo, ccp is so stuck up in their narrow minded way of thinking, that will never happen.) You think Dust is the only game of it's kind? It will be outdated and other games will have done it better by the time ccp get basic gameplay right. I am writting this in anguish of frustration, ccp takes a step forward with an update and manages to take 2 steps back...over, and over, and over... I really had hopes for this game, darn I want it to be good so bad which is why I am so angry... But frustration after frustration makes me realise: is this really worth it? So I say it again, mess with my heavy, and you can add another chromosome vet to the list of M.I.A. Well this thread is to prevent bad things happening to the heavy. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1206	Posted - 2014.03.27 00:28:00 - [18] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: The problem isn't the heavy HP, it's the HMG... I guess no one from CCP saw my post from 1.7, anyway... it's too late now and they are screwing up the heavy completely. The HMG has no issues; it does what it's supposed to do at CQC which is slaughter everything in it's path but can't kill efficiently anything farther than 20 meters. It's so bad with the HMG and distances over 20 meters that, at it's optimal it's optimal of 31 meters at proto level, it's only doing 50% of it's actual damage because of dispersion. If the HMG is nerfed all the rail rifle heavies will come back and they will be able to kill you at 50+ meters with ease. If the heavy suit is nerfed, they might as well not have given us the bonus resistances top damage types. The Heavy suit nor the HMG are the problem. The problem lies with overall balance of heavies being able to use Light weaponry efficiently. But that's for another topic. WE NEED TO FIGHT FOR OUR SUIT!!!!!! Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1206	Posted - 2014.03.27 00:52:00 - [19] - Quote Crashy Mc Boom-bewm wrote: Xender17 wrote: They've turned into tanks. Extremely hard to kill unless you are a heavy as well. I don't think you've ever fought a heavy, even in militia gear I can kill a proto heavy alone! Heck, I get killed all the time by those stupid RR in a proto heavy suit. You people need to stop saying heavys are too tough. If you think they are tough, just read the name HEAVY, they are ment to be this way. I don't think he has fought a heavy either Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1206	Posted - 2014.03.27 01:14:00 - [20] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: So yeah, never mind that we only have 2 Heavy Weapons to pick from, one anti-infantry and one AV, with no A-I weapons which are effective against Shields (we have t make do with Flux Grenades.) Never mind that our only AV option was nerf'd to hell to the point where Tankers slap on a Hardener and laugh at the Heavy tickling them or Dropship pilots hit orbital height before you can charge a second shot. Never mind that a Heavy is slow moving, reps slow and needs a Logi or two be effective. Never mind that the Forge Gun is bugged to the point that it won't even fire. The Heavy obviously needs to lose a huge amount of HP so the Assault players can feel better and kill them easier. [/rant] Preach it brother. We Must Be heard!!! Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1214	Posted - 2014.03.27 03:15:00 - [21] - Quote I'm glad people are actually aware that the heavy, in it's current iteration is not op. I still fear that they are still going to get nerfed. We Need to prevent this. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1216	Posted - 2014.03.27 03:57:00 - [22] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Bump for the Heavies. I'll still stab you all anyways In two weeks see if it is possible to OHK a Heavy with knives. It will be the greatest commentary of this game. I hope the nerf never happens. My hopes for this game are getting thin. Not because of the heavies but all the the thing that dont get fixed because attention is misplaced. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1220	Posted - 2014.03.27 04:32:00 - [23] - Quote Gaurdian Satyr wrote: CCP- "What!? Tanks are running ram pit and cant be killed cause their to fast and AV is practically useless to kill them? let's nerf the heavies!" I loled! Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1220	Posted - 2014.03.27 04:42:00 - [24] - Quote Minmatar Mercenary 9292 wrote: +1 OP, the heavy literally does 1 thing right now, god forbid he be good at it. This!!!!!! Clear and simple. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1224	Posted - 2014.03.27 11:42:00 - [25] - Quote UPDATE So they are waiting for further Data. I hope the Heavy doesn't get nerfed at all. It's finally where it supposed to be. For more info look at the TL:DR section to understand what I mean. CCP Logibro wrote: With the Uprising 1.8 Deployment, we are also looking at some additional hotfixes in the near future. ~~Further internal playtesting has shown that the heavy EHP is too high, and it might be lowered (likely by about 20%, but this is to be confirmed).~~ Delayed until we have more data... Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1231	Posted - 2014.03.28 15:54:00 - [26] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Nerf the HMG first and see how it goes: I know it's a heavy weapon, but dude, i'm using a 800+ eHP suit and it kills me in 1-2 seconds with over "1000" damage everytime? If you don't want me to solo a heavy, even with another heavy (commando) then at least give me time to get behind cover or something! HMG RANGE The thing is that the HMG has a very short engagement range 15 to 20 meters max; even though the optimal is 31. At 31 meters, a heavy is doing only about 50% of it's total damage, even though it's supposed to be at it optimal and deal full damage. This is due to dispersion. If the HMG takes 800+ ehp in less than two seconds that means you where too close to win the engagement in the first place. As opposed to light weaponry, which have a more forgiving range, the HMG engagement range is not an option. It's CQC or nothing. If the enemy is close to the the heavy when trying to kill him, this is the mistake of the opponent and not the HMG itself. WHY NERFING HMG IS BAD Nerfing the HMG will in fact make the HMG useless at it's intended range since by the time the opponent reaches the heavy; and this is most of the time, the heavy will have already received damage from a distance the heavy cannot retaliate from. therefore, when the opponent is close, the heavy must end the engagement in a swift manner. CONSEQUENCES OF NERFING THE HMG In 1.7, Rail rifle and combat rifle heavies dominated the arena. The damage the weapons could subject the opponent to, in conjunction with the range, made it a much more viable option for a heavy to have. If HMGs are nerfed, people will start using this old tactic because the HMG is not worth it; if nerfed. The HMG does one thing good; we shouldn't think it's OP because it does it well. As enemies of heavies we must engage tactically. And if by any chance the opponent is a scout and ays the HMG is op clearly that cloak CCP provided them with is not being put to goo use. I have proto scouts and don't have shotguns level 4 (never found reason to go higher) and yet I have no problem killing heavies when done cautiously. LAST THOUGHTS The heavy with an HMG is the staple of CQC. It's not meant to be beat EASILY by other weapon types unless done in a smart fashion. nerfing the HMG simply because engagements can't be won easily at the HMG's intended range is not reason to nerf at all; specially when you can just as easily have killed that heavy with a light weapon from 30 meters + without much hassle. Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor