DUST Search - Should the hotfix for Vehicles Be the 1.6 Stats for AV?

Atiim wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

We have less slots and diff mods from 1.6

Swarms can do 3k per volley in 1.6 so an armor tank can go bye bye very easily, as for shield FG can already damage them very easily and quicker firing times makes it even quicker and easier so a triple hardened gunlogi will be the only way to survive

If anything with the balance you change a couple of things not everything at once, right now i see adding in adv/proto hulls and balancing with adv/proto AV as the only option that was its balanced for proto AV vs a proto vehicle

Right now in PC vehicles are fine and usable but in pubs if your against a **** team it will run riot

You do not balance for pubs where the matchmaking is **** to nonexistant and where you can come up against academy players in militia gear

Actually, I don't believe HAVs are balanced in PC either. They only seem that way because you field your own vehicles to deal with them

Why?

Quote 1 | Quote 2 | Quote 3

Heck, just read all of this thread here.

Care to explain?

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Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1519	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:20:00 - [1] - Quote Back when AV was much more capable of taking out vehicles to the point where vehicles needed a buff(which they got). Now the AV is nerfed(multiple times through various means) and it's extremely difficult to deal with tanks. It's to my belief that AV stats for 1.6 would suffice. I mean the buffer for the vehicles was based off of those AV stats right? It makes sense. I mean, we could at least test them out...? What's the worst that can happen? "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 2036	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:22:00 - [2] - Quote No because swarms still wouldn't be fixed Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3091	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:25:00 - [3] - Quote No Worst that can happen? It becomes pre 1.7 and vehicles become useless again no matter how you fit it Intelligence is OP
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 143	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:28:00 - [4] - Quote 1.6 stats on av with 1.7 modules on tanks and stats. What is the problem with that?
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1520	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:34:00 - [5] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No Worst that can happen? It becomes pre 1.7 and vehicles become useless again no matter how you fit it what? That can't be possible. If Vehicles keep 1.7 stats and AV gets 1.6 stats back, no one should be useless. Explain. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3331	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:35:00 - [6] - Quote Current vehicles were balanced against pre-1.7 AV and AV was nerfed against pre-1.7 vehicles. It's obvious that the two were tuned independently, if at all. This is hotfix stuff that could've been in weeks ago, if not for lack of motivation. This is just more laziness under the guise of being befuddled by simplicity on CCP's part. I GÖú Kittens.
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1521	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:40:00 - [7] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Current vehicles were balanced against pre-1.7 AV and AV was nerfed against pre-1.7 vehicles. It's obvious that the two were tuned independently, if at all. This is hotfix stuff that could've been in weeks ago, if not for lack of motivation. This is just more laziness under the guise of being befuddled by simplicity on CCP's part. Yeah but since they were nerfed for pre-1.7 vehicles(which were weaker) wouldn't it make sense that they would be buffed with the post 1.7 vehicles? They should've left them the same way instead of nerfing them for vehicle stats that wouldfn't have mattered next patch. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3092	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:51:00 - [8] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No Worst that can happen? It becomes pre 1.7 and vehicles become useless again no matter how you fit it what? That can't be possible. If Vehicles keep 1.7 stats and AV gets 1.6 stats back, no one should be useless. Explain. We have less slots and diff mods from 1.6 Swarms can do 3k per volley in 1.6 so an armor tank can go bye bye very easily, as for shield FG can already damage them very easily and quicker firing times makes it even quicker and easier so a triple hardened gunlogi will be the only way to survive If anything with the balance you change a couple of things not everything at once, right now i see adding in adv/proto hulls and balancing with adv/proto AV as the only option that was its balanced for proto AV vs a proto vehicle Right now in PC vehicles are fine and usable but in pubs if your against a ** team it will run riot You do not balance for pubs where the matchmaking is ** to nonexistant and where you can come up against academy players in militia gear Intelligence is OP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6140	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:57:00 - [9] - Quote No. This would cause Dropships to be nuked into orbit, and it wouldn't fare well do to the lower eHP ceiling that vehicles now have. I think Judge Rhadamanthus' video best explains why a damage increasement isn't a good idea. However. this doesn't account for the Damage Modifier nerf. I would like to see all AV weapon damage increased to make up for the possible damage that's lost to the damage modifier nerf. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6140	Posted - 2014.03.25 19:04:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: We have less slots and diff mods from 1.6 Swarms can do 3k per volley in 1.6 so an armor tank can go bye bye very easily, as for shield FG can already damage them very easily and quicker firing times makes it even quicker and easier so a triple hardened gunlogi will be the only way to survive If anything with the balance you change a couple of things not everything at once, right now i see adding in adv/proto hulls and balancing with adv/proto AV as the only option that was its balanced for proto AV vs a proto vehicle Right now in PC vehicles are fine and usable but in pubs if your against a ** team it will run riot You do not balance for pubs where the matchmaking is ** to nonexistant and where you can come up against academy players in militia gear Actually, I don't believe HAVs are balanced in PC either. They only seem that way because you field your own vehicles to deal with them Why? Quote 1 \| Quote 2 \| Quote 3 Heck, just read all of this thread here. Care to explain? The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 1564	Posted - 2014.03.25 19:04:00 - [11] - Quote FG needs its charge time reverted to what it was. Hardeners need a shared cooldown of 60s to prevent stacking while scaling resistances 40%, 50%, 60% from basic to proto. Passive armor reps need their values tuned and should have some detriment to stacking them. Swarms need to be fixed. Railguns need a RoF nerf. Let me play you the song of my people!
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1957	Posted - 2014.03.25 19:08:00 - [12] - Quote I'll just leave this here click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8873	Posted - 2014.03.25 19:14:00 - [13] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No Worst that can happen? It becomes pre 1.7 and vehicles become useless again no matter how you fit it what? That can't be possible. If Vehicles keep 1.7 stats and AV gets 1.6 stats back, no one should be useless. Explain. The real question is. "Where do you see the imbalances with current AV firing at HAV" (and that's a serious question not and invitation for you to lose all sanity and rationality and go off your ***.) 1.) Hardeners 2.) Range At which point I respond with a "I do not believe we need to buff directly any values in relation of AV vs Vehicle, instead we tweak them to achieve balance." If Hardeners are where you believe balance issues are then we make changes to de-incentivise the stacking and use of multiple hardeners. By a.) Increasing the fitting costs of the modules in relation to other modules. or b.) reducing the effectiveness of hardener modules to 50% for shield, and 35% for armour or c.) Implementing a system like the cloak whereby hardeners once activated last their full duration before entering a cool down cycle. While this cycle is taking place no secondary hardener units can be activated. However once the cooldown reaches 1/2 of its full cycle then a secondary hardener can be activate. This doesn't prevent use of multiple hardeners, but it does reinforce the waves of opportunity as time between consecutive hardener activation is between 25-45 seconds depending on modules used. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"* -Dagger Two
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1521	Posted - 2014.03.25 19:21:00 - [14] - Quote I must've been away from the game too long. I think the issue does boil down to hardeners and range like you said Adamance. I used to could damage tanks heavily with AV but only if they couldn't run away or throw on hardeners on time. And this is all with militia gear. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 559	Posted - 2014.03.25 20:00:00 - [15] - Quote Swarms and av grenades would still be up. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3094	Posted - 2014.03.27 11:14:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: We have less slots and diff mods from 1.6 Swarms can do 3k per volley in 1.6 so an armor tank can go bye bye very easily, as for shield FG can already damage them very easily and quicker firing times makes it even quicker and easier so a triple hardened gunlogi will be the only way to survive If anything with the balance you change a couple of things not everything at once, right now i see adding in adv/proto hulls and balancing with adv/proto AV as the only option that was its balanced for proto AV vs a proto vehicle Right now in PC vehicles are fine and usable but in pubs if your against a ** team it will run riot You do not balance for pubs where the matchmaking is ** to nonexistant and where you can come up against academy players in militia gear Actually, I don't believe HAVs are balanced in PC either. They only seem that way because you field your own vehicles to deal with them Why? Quote 1 \| Quote 2 \| Quote 3 Heck, just read all of this thread here. Care to explain? 3 examples? that it? In all my time in PC its still roughly the same as before Sure whoever wins the tank fight gets control and the freedom of the map for a short amount of time until they roll up again but last i checked i cant hack an objective when in a tank let alone control the city, the infantry are small and nimble and can move in and out alot easier As for rail thats what its supposed to do, deny DS and espc DS which can cause more havok against infantry inside compounds than a tank and can also transport infantry around the map far more easier and faster than a tank The 3 turrets are all useful in there own way, rails seem to be the most popular now because they can effectively deal with tanks and ds at the same time and have no drawback with CQC Infantry will always be more valuable than vehicles on the majority of maps and rarely has a loss been down to not enough tanks or even the tanks losing the vehicle battle, its generally down to the infantry because they are the ones that hack and defend key points that vehicles cant do, they are responisble for putting down links/hives/repping ppl and supporting each other Intelligence is OP
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 764	Posted - 2014.03.27 11:20:00 - [17] - Quote Actually it might be tempting but you have to remember the game mechanics have changed. Of course some weapons, like the poor swarm launcher defnitely need a buff in damage, but this isn't a solution by itself. Tanks also have some issues and balancing these against both the tank vs tank and tank vs infantry design space without upsetting the delicate infantry vs other vehicles balance is a hard thing. Remember the ridiculous range swarm launchers had in 1.6? I don't think needs to be reinstated... it would again swing the pendulum too far back the other way. Of course there are other ways to keep damage as it is now and then change the way game mechanics function - like having a hardened tank become slower , but again, this would mean changing other things in that design space. The game mechanics aren't mature enough for big tinkering and we don't even have all the AV weapons yet, which would require more balacing. I think this will be an issue for some time to come.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2215	Posted - 2014.03.27 11:31:00 - [18] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Back when AV was much more capable of taking out vehicles to the point where vehicles needed a buff(which they got). Now the AV is nerfed(multiple times through various means) and it's extremely difficult to deal with tanks. It's to my belief that AV stats for 1.6 would suffice. I mean the buffer for the vehicles was based off of those AV stats right? It makes sense. I mean, we could at least test them out...? What's the worst that can happen? Advanced and prototype AV should be removed, then the current prototype stats pasted onto the current Basic AV and balance should be reached and sought from that point onward. Our current vehicles are JUST militia and basic variants, if a prototype AV cannot kill one of these monsters imagine what damage a advanced and prototype tank will do. For the Federation!


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