DUST Search - solution to vehicle spam 514

True Adamance wrote:

Type 2910 MK-II wrote:

Just a quick post as I'm sick of getting into a match and it being covered in tanks and dropships.
Add a team quota for each vehicle:
Up to 2 tanks (tanks are powerful, I agree they should be but having 3-4 every game is just stupid)

Up to 3 dropships, assault or standard (assuming there are 2 full squads and a couple of randoms this allows 1 for each potential group of people).

Andaybe up to 6 LAV (room for everyone in the team).

Thoughts from others? Just don't be rude.

I don't think that is any way to solve the issue at all but to prevent players who might have the misfortune to enter matches together to make use of their play style.

The issue is not with simply the spam, but the ease of access unskilled in terms of SP player have to these powerful units and the lack of ISK cost to deploy them.

The figure of the 70k ISK tank is thrown around a lot.

I deploy a 500K ISK tank every time I deploy.

The issue you have to contend with is how to de-incentivise HAV spam. To do that you have to reduce HAV capacity to constantly resist AV, and accessibility while ensure the HAV are still balanced.

Frankly speaking HAV spam can benefit and opposing team greatly. Seeing the enemy putt all of their egg in one basket and removing X unit able to capture objectives can work in your favour.

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Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 14	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:38:00 - [1] - Quote Just a quick post as I'm sick of getting into a match and it being covered in tanks and dropships. Add a team quota for each vehicle: Up to 2 tanks (tanks are powerful, I agree they should be but having 3-4 every game is just stupid) Up to 3 dropships, assault or standard (assuming there are 2 full squads and a couple of randoms this allows 1 for each potential group of people). Andaybe up to 6 LAV (room for everyone in the team). Thoughts from others? Just don't be rude.
SgtDoughnut DUST University Ivy League 523	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:39:00 - [2] - Quote 1 tank per squad, 1 drop ship per squad, 2 lav per squad I say per squad so you don't get squad of 3 guys all calling tanks, you want to coordinate tanks you better be talking in teamchat/outside coms. 1 dropship per squad to help move the squad around (even assault dropships are not meant for killing they just can also do it). and 2 lav's for fast response and to reign in on the heavy lav murder taxi.
Zene Ren Bullet Cluster 61	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:41:00 - [3] - Quote the only solution is correct DMG calculation toward native HAV and DS AV resistances plus hardener working together nothing else is needed... Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 14	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:42:00 - [4] - Quote SgtDoughnut wrote: 1 tank per squad, 1 drop ship per squad, 2 lav per squad Deal that's a much better idea but if people just make their 1 man squad and lock it to get heaps more vehicles....
SgtDoughnut DUST University Ivy League 523	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:45:00 - [5] - Quote the 1 per squad means that the game would have to enforce the 3 squad max that is possible right now, and no non squad call ins, you want jeeps/dropships/tanks you have to be in a squad.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8800	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:47:00 - [6] - Quote Type 2910 MK-II wrote: Just a quick post as I'm sick of getting into a match and it being covered in tanks and dropships. Add a team quota for each vehicle: Up to 2 tanks (tanks are powerful, I agree they should be but having 3-4 every game is just stupid) Up to 3 dropships, assault or standard (assuming there are 2 full squads and a couple of randoms this allows 1 for each potential group of people). Andaybe up to 6 LAV (room for everyone in the team). Thoughts from others? Just don't be rude. I don't think that is any way to solve the issue at all but to prevent players who might have the misfortune to enter matches together to make use of their play style. The issue is not with simply the spam, but the ease of access unskilled in terms of SP player have to these powerful units and the lack of ISK cost to deploy them. The figure of the 70k ISK tank is thrown around a lot. I deploy a 500K ISK tank every time I deploy. The issue you have to contend with is how to de-incentivise HAV spam. To do that you have to reduce HAV capacity to constantly resist AV, and accessibility while ensure the HAV are still balanced. Frankly speaking HAV spam can benefit and opposing team greatly. Seeing the enemy putt all of their egg in one basket and removing X unit able to capture objectives can work in your favour. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Patrlck 56 247	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:53:00 - [7] - Quote SgtDoughnut wrote: 1 tank per squad, 1 drop ship per squad, 2 lav per squad No, this would cause issues for PC. Best hatemail
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 14	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:56:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Type 2910 MK-II wrote: Just a quick post as I'm sick of getting into a match and it being covered in tanks and dropships. Add a team quota for each vehicle: Up to 2 tanks (tanks are powerful, I agree they should be but having 3-4 every game is just stupid) Up to 3 dropships, assault or standard (assuming there are 2 full squads and a couple of randoms this allows 1 for each potential group of people). Andaybe up to 6 LAV (room for everyone in the team). Thoughts from others? Just don't be rude. I don't think that is any way to solve the issue at all but to prevent players who might have the misfortune to enter matches together to make use of their play style. The issue is not with simply the spam, but the ease of access unskilled in terms of SP player have to these powerful units and the lack of ISK cost to deploy them. The figure of the 70k ISK tank is thrown around a lot. I deploy a 500K ISK tank every time I deploy. The issue you have to contend with is how to de-incentivise HAV spam. To do that you have to reduce HAV capacity to constantly resist AV, and accessibility while ensure the HAV are still balanced. Frankly speaking HAV spam can benefit and opposing team greatly. Seeing the enemy putt all of their egg in one basket and removing X unit able to capture objectives can work in your favour. That's exactly why I have 3 play styles. Proto logistics, Adv assault and basic vehicles. If people only invest in one play style can't expect to enjoy every game. If the role of logi is useless I fall.back to assault and if that's not working I will pull a vehicle.
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 320	Posted - 2014.03.24 22:59:00 - [9] - Quote Type 2910 MK-II wrote: Just a quick post as I'm sick of getting into a match and it being covered in tanks and dropships. Add a team quota for each vehicle: Up to 2 tanks (tanks are powerful, I agree they should be but having 3-4 every game is just stupid) Up to 3 dropships, assault or standard (assuming there are 2 full squads and a couple of randoms this allows 1 for each potential group of people). Andaybe up to 6 LAV (room for everyone in the team). Thoughts from others? Just don't be rude. appreciate the idea, but this could just lock out the experienced full time pilots like myself.. I do not have a gun game, I cant 1 vs 1.....i suck ... is bascially what im saying.. So, i rely on dropships. If MLT noobs lock me out the sky, I cant play and therefore dont want to play.. most common words on the forums? ccp, fix, imbalance, annoying, frustrating, stupid, broken, OP, Tanks, dropships.......
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 320	Posted - 2014.03.24 23:00:00 - [10] - Quote Patrlck 56 wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: 1 tank per squad, 1 drop ship per squad, 2 lav per squad No, this would cause issues for PC. I dont see it having a negative effect on PC .. if anything, it could smooth it out a little imo. please explain? most common words on the forums? ccp, fix, imbalance, annoying, frustrating, stupid, broken, OP, Tanks, dropships.......

MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 352	Posted - 2014.03.24 23:04:00 - [11] - Quote Arbitrary caps on vehicle types only worsen the problem, because they don't address any issues right now. Tanks are overpowered against infantry av and rail tanks are overpowered vs other vehicles. Weapons and modules for both infantry and vehicles need to be looked at. With 1.7 they shifted away almost all of the skills that have passive damage or the like out of the skill tree and slapped them into a mlt module with no sp investment that currently functions better than the skills and multiple modules did. The reduced slot count and drastically improved hardeners also broke the paradigm. Imposing an arbitrary cap is essentially saying "I don't want to encounter vehicles" rather than "I want vehicles and av to be balanced on both ends"
SgtDoughnut DUST University Ivy League 524	Posted - 2014.03.25 00:06:00 - [12] - Quote Patrlck 56 wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: 1 tank per squad, 1 drop ship per squad, 2 lav per squad No, this would cause issues for PC. Frankly 1 Nobody gives a flying ** about the district locking lag filled cluster ** known as PC, it needs a total reset and probably a rollback from all the isk that has been exploited by the elite few. 2. PC people will always adapt, when you play at the top tier you adapt to the new meta or no longer play at the top tier, you do not base changes on what FOTM try hard corps are using right now, you base changes on the overall health of the game.
Yeeeuuuupppp 178	Posted - 2014.03.25 00:09:00 - [13] - Quote Or, get a lav filed with ishukonet assault forge guns and lai dai packed av grenades CCP Saberwing: " War elephants for 1.9" I really want the templar set Feel the wrath of my troll
Savage Mangler Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 85	Posted - 2014.03.25 00:30:00 - [14] - Quote How about having vehicles deployed like in Tribes 2. Have a Vehicle Requistion Facilty located at the ground spawn location and have it digistruct or have "preloaded" vehicles come out of it. Make it so buying a tank and fitting it is essentially buying a requisition code for said tank. -YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED- "Good, then they'll know who killed them." Keep your knives sharp....and your wits sharper.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 579	Posted - 2014.03.25 00:46:00 - [15] - Quote Type 2910 MK-II wrote: Just a quick post as I'm sick of getting into a match and it being covered in tanks and dropships. Add a team quota for each vehicle: Up to 2 tanks (tanks are powerful, I agree they should be but having 3-4 every game is just stupid) Up to 3 dropships, assault or standard (assuming there are 2 full squads and a couple of randoms this allows 1 for each potential group of people). Andaybe up to 6 LAV (room for everyone in the team). Thoughts from others? Just don't be rude. So what happens when a 25 million SP vehicle specialist joins a match and two retards have militia tanks out? What does he do? Go out and use militia fits? Amarr Logi \| Amarr Sentinel Projects: TDBS \| SDETool
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 556	Posted - 2014.03.25 01:01:00 - [16] - Quote Vehicles will never be balanced until 1 person can kill them acros the board. That's the same problem in bf3. You can fly a helicopter out of bounds where only air vehicles can go. Your out of range of anti air from infantry. Fly up, switch to gunner seat and kill stuff in free fall. switch back and fly back up. Only another jet or helicopter can kill it and there's no counter for it. That's basically all vehicles in dust 514. Broken. We want the tank balance from bf3 where any engineer or support can blow the crap out of a tank single handedly. It comes down to who's the better player. Not the broken helicoper and jet imbalance. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Scheneighnay McBob Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4499	Posted - 2014.03.25 01:05:00 - [17] - Quote Up to 2 heavy weapons between all the infantry, 3 light weapons, and 6 sidearms. Everyone else has to melee. I am your scan error.
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 14	Posted - 2014.03.25 08:07:00 - [18] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Up to 2 heavy weapons between all the infantry, 3 light weapons, and 6 sidearms. Everyone else has to melee. Heavy weapons aren't op nor do they break the game but killing everything that moves. Most of the time if they heavy is soloing he will die because he is a big target with no logi. I can put dps a hmg with my combat rifle or assault rifle. Vehicles and infantry weapons are two completely different things you can't hope to compare them.
ROCKO THE HELLHOUND Ultramarine Corp 29	Posted - 2014.03.25 08:25:00 - [19] - Quote oh this is cute, i always hear "solution" and "fix" to vehicles blah, blah - you obviously completely forgot that it was the foremost intention of 1.7 to make the field swim in vehicles - and like this uplifting them from nice-playstyle to essential part of most battles, where they belong to. and before you ask what would be essential about them: as long as one side uses them in a battle extensively, they are essential to that battle then - as everything in the vehicular-warfare aspect of this game counts for both sides and can go either way - and don't forget that in my example it would be essentially to a non vehicle using team to use their vehicles if they want to do anything against the other teams vehicle-spam, as a vehicle is always both: the easyest and strongest counter to another vehicle - as it should be.
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 15	Posted - 2014.03.25 08:56:00 - [20] - Quote ROCKO THE HELLHOUND wrote: oh this is cute, i always hear "solution" and "fix" to vehicles blah, blah - you obviously completely forgot that it was the foremost intention of 1.7 to make the field swim in vehicles - and like this uplifting them from nice-playstyle to essential part of most battles, where they belong to. First thing is that vehicles are necessary not tanks anyway they should be something that give you a boost yes and they should absolutely destroy the enemy but when you look in squad finder "tanks only", "tanks and mics only" usually they get at least 4-5 and then join a game and all pull one out each then all of a sudden there's a couple of million sp on the enemy team in tanks and without adequate anti vehicle weaponry, other very powerful tanks or luck they team that is opposing the squad of tankers is stuffed. If anti vehicles was adequate like in 1.6 then I had no problem with a squad of tankers but now it's just silly.

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 688	Posted - 2014.03.25 09:02:00 - [21] - Quote Type 2910 MK-II wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: 1 tank per squad, 1 drop ship per squad, 2 lav per squad Deal that's a much better idea but if people just make their 1 man squad and lock it to get heaps more vehicles.... You'd have to include lockouts for suits as well in that case. If you wanted to roll solo, but want a primary weapon, too bad, secondaries only. Limit the number of primary weapons per squad to 1, cause everyone knows primary weapons are spammed to hell and back, therefore because of spam they must be OP, and therefore must be regulated. this is your logic still BTW If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 15	Posted - 2014.03.25 09:14:00 - [22] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: [quote=Type 2910 MK-II][quote=SgtDoughnut] Limit the number of primary weapons per squad to 1, cause everyone knows primary weapons are spammed to hell and back, therefore because of spam they must be OP, and therefore must be regulated. this is your logic still BTW Dropsuits are plausible to deal with and are a requirement as it's how your guy survives a vehicle isn't life support it is support. Again as I stated to the last similar comment like this vehicles and weapons on a dropsuits are comparable they are completely different. Also the game revolves around dropsuits and on foot combat the vehicle combat is cool it's partly why I play dust but when a team get to many tanks out there's no hope. If there are heaps of logis or heavies people pull out remotes and install kill then there's nothing like that for vehicles excluding maybe a gunlogi with 3 damage mods and a railgun if that's even possible from CPU and PG I don't know.
Leonid Tybalt Heaven's-Gate 338	Posted - 2014.03.25 09:19:00 - [23] - Quote Terrible idea im afraid. This would mean that a lot of people who are dedicated tankers, ads pilots etc. will be prevented from playing with what they're good at, simply because some MLT-using scrub managed to spawn first and got to call down his vehicle before the more skilled player did. It would be like a logi being prevented from playing in his logi suit just because "there are too many logis in the field", or a heavy being prevented from using his heavy suit etc.
Leonid Tybalt Heaven's-Gate 338	Posted - 2014.03.25 09:24:00 - [24] - Quote Type 2910 MK-II wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: [quote=Type 2910 MK-II][quote=SgtDoughnut] Limit the number of primary weapons per squad to 1, cause everyone knows primary weapons are spammed to hell and back, therefore because of spam they must be OP, and therefore must be regulated. this is your logic still BTW Dropsuits are plausible to deal with and are a requirement as it's how your guy survives a vehicle isn't life support it is support. Again as I stated to the last similar comment like this vehicles and weapons on a dropsuits are comparable they are completely different. Also the game revolves around dropsuits and on foot combat the vehicle combat is cool it's partly why I play dust but when a team get to many tanks out there's no hope. If there are heaps of logis or heavies people pull out remotes and install kill then there's nothing like that for vehicles excluding maybe a gunlogi with 3 damage mods and a railgun if that's even possible from CPU and PG I don't know. False statement. Nowhere did ccp ever advertise dust to "revolve around infantry combat". Dust has ONLY been advertised as "ground combat" and nothing else. Vehicles belong in a ground combat enviroment just as much as infantry does. I see this "argument" thrown around a lot that "Dust 514 is supposed to be about infantry", but this is nothing but a ficticious invention by some members of the playerbase, not something that ccp has ever stated anywhere. If the game was supposed to be "infantry only", then we wouldn't have access to vehicles AT ALL.
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 15	Posted - 2014.03.25 09:24:00 - [25] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Type 2910 MK-II wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: 1 tank per squad, 1 drop ship per squad, 2 lav per squad Deal that's a much better idea but if people just make their 1 man squad and lock it to get heaps more vehicles.... You'd have to include lockouts for suits as well in that case. If you wanted to roll solo, but want a primary weapon, too bad, secondaries only. Limit the number of primary weapons per squad to 1, cause everyone knows primary weapons are spammed to hell and back, therefore because of spam they must be OP, and therefore must be regulated. this is your logic still BTW
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 2085	Posted - 2014.03.25 10:16:00 - [26] - Quote Keep current limits of deployable vehicles. Fix them and AV I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Yeeeuuuupppp 180	Posted - 2014.03.25 10:18:00 - [27] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Vehicles will never be balanced until 1 person can kill them acros the board. That's the same problem in bf3. You can fly a helicopter out of bounds where only air vehicles can go. Your out of range of anti air from infantry. Fly up, switch to gunner seat and kill stuff in free fall. switch back and fly back up. Only another jet or helicopter can kill it and there's no counter for it. That's basically all vehicles in dust 514. Broken. We want the tank balance from bf3 where any engineer or support can blow the crap out of a tank single handedly. It comes down to who's the better player. Not the broken helicoper and jet imbalance. You were never suppose to kill ask the vehicles in a match single handedly, that's part of the reason why they nerfed av, to promote team work which is what this game is all about CCP Saberwing: " War elephants for 1.9" I really want the templar set Feel the wrath of my troll
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 17	Posted - 2014.03.25 10:29:00 - [28] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: You were never suppose to kill ask the vehicles in a match single handedly, that's part of the reason why they nerfed av, to promote team work which is what this game is all about That's not true a squad of 6 would realistically have: 1 Heavy weapon specialist 1 marksman 2 riflemen 1 medic 1 anti vehicle Or maybe 1 driver instead of a second rifleman. When it comes to army marines as far as I know in the US they have: 1 rifleman 1 Heavy weapons 1 grenadier 1 marksman
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1050	Posted - 2014.03.25 10:47:00 - [29] - Quote There is no matchmaking in Dust514. There are not enough players. There are no mechanisms to limit vehicles, suits or levels of gear in a battle. You can run AURUM gear in Battle Academy, I think. Or free suits in PC. There are some limitations in dropping vehicles but those appear to be based on how many drunken RDV pilots are available at the time. Once the game develops a user base that will support matchmaking then something might be done about your concerns. Or it might not. Personally, I would be on not. HTFU, and Welcome to Dust (aka Tanks514) And so it goes.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1050	Posted - 2014.03.25 10:54:00 - [30] - Quote Type 2910 MK-II wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: You were never suppose to kill ask the vehicles in a match single handedly, that's part of the reason why they nerfed av, to promote team work which is what this game is all about That's not true a squad of 6 would realistically have Seriously? You actually used the word realistically about how random squads work in a video game. Wow. And your forgot the magic of Supply Depots. Change your suit to fit the situation. Overrun by tanks, half the squad goes AV while everybody carries AV grenades. Dust is a science fiction video game about Immortal Mercenaries In Spaaace. Get used to it. It ain't changing. And there is no realistically here. Have you seen how a Derp Ship flies? It has two huge engines hung off its butt! Explain moment of inertia to CCP/Shanghai. You should get an answer that ends in "... in Spaaace". Love your optimism though. We should beat that out of you by 1.9. And so it goes.

Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 17	Posted - 2014.03.25 11:49:00 - [31] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Type 2910 MK-II wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: You were never suppose to kill ask the vehicles in a match single handedly, that's part of the reason why they nerfed av, to promote team work which is what this game is all about That's not true a squad of 6 would realistically have Seriously? You actually used the word realistically about how random squads work in a video game. Wow. And your forgot the magic of Supply Depots. Change your suit to fit the situation. Overrun by tanks, half the squad goes AV while everybody carries AV grenades. Dust is a science fiction video game about Immortal Mercenaries In Spaaace. Get used to it. It ain't changing. And there is no realistically here. Have you seen how a Derp Ship flies? It has two huge engines hung off its butt! Explain moment of inertia to CCP/Shanghai. You should get an answer that ends in "... in Spaaace". Love your optimism though. We should beat that out of you by 1.9. In 1.6 AV what useful and you could get away with having 1 AV squadmate while the rest gave him cover now AV is useless on its only especially with the new active hardeners the passive ones were fine
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 554	Posted - 2014.03.25 11:52:00 - [32] - Quote there is a quota... its 7 vehicles per team.... -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Type 2910 MK-II The United Peoples' Tactical Force 17	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:00:00 - [33] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: there is a quota... its 7 vehicles per team.... 7 tanks is still ridiculous


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