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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.03.24 05:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
DozersMouse XIII wrote:if tanks were not somewhat OP as most of the community would agree on
then how can these scrubs that never used a HAV before 1.7 just pick one up hop in
and become one if not the biggest threat on the battlefield?
I mean if there not OP and AV is fine this can only mean 1 thing
DuST is full of the best pilots that have ever touched tanks in a battlefield type shooter
and none of you guys can claim to be better then the next because your all a balanced threat
from beginner - vet and militia - SP invested
I don't think HAV are OP.... but they aren't tiered well.
This HAV pandemic is an example of what tiericide can do if done wrong.
What I would say is that MLT HAV are too efficient for what they are.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.03.24 05:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
DozersMouse XIII wrote:True Adamance wrote:DozersMouse XIII wrote:if tanks were not somewhat OP as most of the community would agree on
then how can these scrubs that never used a HAV before 1.7 just pick one up hop in
and become one if not the biggest threat on the battlefield?
I mean if there not OP and AV is fine this can only mean 1 thing
DuST is full of the best pilots that have ever touched tanks in a battlefield type shooter
and none of you guys can claim to be better then the next because your all a balanced threat
from beginner - vet and militia - SP invested
I don't think HAV are OP.... but they aren't tiered well. This HAV pandemic is an example of what tiericide can do if done wrong. What I would say is that MLT HAV are too efficient for what they are. so if they nerf militia then what I go put a few hundred thousand in HAV operation and run militia mods on it and become a slightly bigger threat?
Its not about nerfing anything. That doesn't achieve balance in the slightest. Its about tweaking what we have to develop the relationship between vehicles and AV.
Personally the only way I see to develop this is to start with static AV models.
Lets take the ones we are given and introduce the required racial parity amongst heavy/AV weapons.
Once done we as a community over a period of time test the weapons and determine where faults with the weapon lie, and present a statement to CCP/CPM.
After which we actively try to balance vehicles around the AV values.
If you are looking for quick fixes I can list a few off for you.
1.) 5% increase to the damage of AV weapons (all ranges, charge/rof, etc stay the same)
2.) Decrease effectiveness of shield hardeners to 50%, and Armour Hardeners to 35%.
3.) Increase by 5-10% the fitting requirements of Hardener units.
4.) Implement a system like the Cloak Cooldown whereby Hardeners cannot be consecutively activated. Once a hardener activates it runs its duration and starts a hardener cool down cycle equivalent to half of that activated modules cool down timers before another hardener can be activated.
The following should not be implemented at once but equally considered as a possible solution to quickly and temporarily fix the situation.
This de-incentivising stacking hardeners but doesn't prevent it, reinforces the nature of waves of opportunity and allows AV to capitalise on such weaknesses which not directly buff or nerf AV and tanks respectively.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
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8757
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Posted - 2014.03.24 05:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:True Adamance wrote:DozersMouse XIII wrote:if tanks were not somewhat OP as most of the community would agree on
then how can these scrubs that never used a HAV before 1.7 just pick one up hop in
and become one if not the biggest threat on the battlefield?
I mean if there not OP and AV is fine this can only mean 1 thing
DuST is full of the best pilots that have ever touched tanks in a battlefield type shooter
and none of you guys can claim to be better then the next because your all a balanced threat
from beginner - vet and militia - SP invested
I don't think HAV are OP.... but they aren't tiered well. This HAV pandemic is an example of what tiericide can do if done wrong. What I would say is that MLT HAV are too efficient for what they are. You seem to be implying that STD HAV's are well balanced; this is blatantly untrue.
I think they are essentially as balanced as ADV tanks need to be which for the most part they are. Tanks don't tier well.
Another manner of balancing HAV is
MLT- 1 Slots High and Low
STD- Two Slots essentially our MLT now but requires SP
ADV- 3 Slots out STD HAV now but more SP
PRO- 4 slots, better than our STD now but most SP
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8760
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Posted - 2014.03.24 06:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
DozersMouse XIII wrote:True Adamance wrote:DozersMouse XIII wrote:True Adamance wrote:DozersMouse XIII wrote:if tanks were not somewhat OP as most of the community would agree on
then how can these scrubs that never used a HAV before 1.7 just pick one up hop in
and become one if not the biggest threat on the battlefield?
I mean if there not OP and AV is fine this can only mean 1 thing
DuST is full of the best pilots that have ever touched tanks in a battlefield type shooter
and none of you guys can claim to be better then the next because your all a balanced threat
from beginner - vet and militia - SP invested
I don't think HAV are OP.... but they aren't tiered well. This HAV pandemic is an example of what tiericide can do if done wrong. What I would say is that MLT HAV are too efficient for what they are. so if they nerf militia then what I go put a few hundred thousand in HAV operation and run militia mods on it and become a slightly bigger threat? Its not about nerfing anything. That doesn't achieve balance in the slightest. Its about tweaking what we have to develop the relationship between vehicles and AV. Personally the only way I see to develop this is to start with static AV models. Lets take the ones we are given and introduce the required racial parity amongst heavy/AV weapons. Once done we as a community over a period of time test the weapons and determine where faults with the weapon lie, and present a statement to CCP/CPM. After which we actively try to balance vehicles around the AV values. If you are looking for quick fixes I can list a few off for you. 1.) 5% increase to the damage of AV weapons (all ranges, charge/rof, etc stay the same) 2.) Decrease effectiveness of shield hardeners to 50%, and Armour Hardeners to 35%. 3.) Increase by 5-10% the fitting requirements of Hardener units. 4.) Implement a system like the Cloak Cooldown whereby Hardeners cannot be consecutively activated. Once a hardener activates it runs its duration and starts a hardener cool down cycle equivalent to half of that activated modules cool down timers before another hardener can be activated. The following should not be implemented at once but equally considered as a possible solution to quickly and temporarily fix the situation. This de-incentivising stacking hardeners but doesn't prevent it, reinforces the nature of waves of opportunity and allows AV to capitalise on such weaknesses which not directly buff or nerf AV and tanks respectively. whats your take on range? I am not a pilot but I have an alt that I carefully spec'd 10 mill SP into gunnlogi not tanking until mid 1.7 I can become 1 if not the biggest threat on the field with skyhigh KDR I do not rail snipe I get down on the ground and pound tanks off my squadmates but putting a standard blaster on this thing and I can rock infantry "with headshots" at 100m away IMO blasters should have extreme spread making them mediocre at killing infantry and still good at killing tanks I mean the spread would still land on a tank but give infantry a chance and my opinion on mods is they are completely broken its like they are solely based around tank on tank combat leaving infantry crap out of luck
Range is a sensitive issue..... Frankly speaking I like the range we have now....but understand most people don't..... maybe its just selfish but I am getting to the point where I can snipe infantry at long range with a blaster...... range sure keep range where it is.
Damage drop off though..... that's a better solution than hard capping range IMO. As such I can't really say we should de-incentivise long range aiming. To vehicles that is not even a threat....to infantry however I can see why that is an issue.
I would need to refine my own internal discussion regarding range.... I tend to try to rationalise/ argue to myself why things should or shouldn't be....
Again for blaster turrets I am not a huge fan of them....or how they operate....but hypocritically they are the turret type I most run. I personally find Rail Guns distasteful, and am working on Missile HAV, atm I roll blasters for close infantry support which is where I am on the map, brawling with other tanks and keeping the objectives clear for my squad mates.
Still I cannot help but mislike them..... asking me about blasters is never going to get you a truly unbiased answer because while I dislike them, I also find them oddly fulfilling when I best another AV built tank.
I will edit this post with a more refined statement, or simply repost.
For the most part I find blaster ranges to be a little excessive.....however.
I am a huge fan/proponent of the idea that AV and HAV always need to be overlapping in engagement zones, meaning that I believe that while some AV should be long range and hard hitting other types that perhaps favour DPS over Alpha are possible to engage.
Nothing was worse than pre 1.7 when Tankers could not see past 50m due to poor rendering, or even after that when blaster hit detection was poor and AV like swarms could snipe us from outside our effective ranges..... 1.2- 1.7 was atrocious balance in favour of AV. Which is why while I am on the upside of the nerf bat I am going to campaign for careful tweaks and community feed back of calls for nerfs and buffs.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8764
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Posted - 2014.03.24 07:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
In the end this discussion is not about who is and who isn't a "True Anything".
It doesn't matter if you tank, doesn't matter if you AV.
We all see the imbalances and discussing and developing suggestions and statements regarding that imbalance is what we should be doing instead of name calling, bragging about X,Y,or Z, brashly pushing one agenda or another.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8764
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Posted - 2014.03.24 08:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
DozersMouse XIII wrote:Charlotte O'Dell wrote:they're OP as ****. as long as more than 20 people are any threat with them, they will be OP. i miss when you were either god mode tanker or you were a scrub who got booted out of the club the second you knocked on the door with your ***** ass sica. I remember the 1.6 tankers who had heart and no wallet
<---------- This guy.....
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8765
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Posted - 2014.03.24 08:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
wait reloading wrote:I think the first step to getting a balance would be to limit vehicles to to 1 hardner, but tweak duration and cooldown so there is at least an opportunity for the tank able to get away. At the moment I can 3 shot any tank that isn't running a hardner or extender, but a complex hardner means I gotta wait a very long time or give up, if more than 1 complex hardner it isn't worth bothering with
Again as I have said lets not make arbitrary decisions about what fits can do what and lets de-incentivize fitting multiple hardeners.
Rather than say no dual hardeners (and I only run one so I operate under the 36 second rule) let say hardeners are tougher to fit, perhaps they do not work so efficiently or for so long.
Or my personal favourite have a timer equivalent to 1/2 their cool down period before a second hardener can be activated, not preventing dual hardeners but enforcing waves of opportunity.
The benefits of dual hardeners are mitigated mostly, and we don't close off or lock down playstyles.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8767
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Posted - 2014.03.24 10:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:True Adamance wrote:wait reloading wrote:I think the first step to getting a balance would be to limit vehicles to to 1 hardner, but tweak duration and cooldown so there is at least an opportunity for the tank able to get away. At the moment I can 3 shot any tank that isn't running a hardner or extender, but a complex hardner means I gotta wait a very long time or give up, if more than 1 complex hardner it isn't worth bothering with Again as I have said lets not make arbitrary decisions about what fits can do what and lets de-incentivize fitting multiple hardeners. Rather than say no dual hardeners (and I only run one so I operate under the 36 second rule) let say hardeners are tougher to fit, perhaps they do not work so efficiently or for so long. Or my personal favourite have a timer equivalent to 1/2 their cool down period before a second hardener can be activated, not preventing dual hardeners but enforcing waves of opportunity. The benefits of dual hardeners are mitigated mostly, and we don't close off or lock down playstyles. yeah but you use two reppers you scrub  everyone knows that's the best fitting for a pub Maddy.
No I actually don't.
1 Hardener
1 Repper
1 Complex CPU enhancer
Yeah that fit sounds terribly True....I though all tankers were scrubs....but you are the worst, you tell me
Ah ye of little faith says I..... ye of little faith
What could you possibly be using that means you can't fit two reppers or two hardeners? says you.
 says I.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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