DUST Search - The real AV/Vehicle problem

LAVALLOIS Nash wrote:

So ever since 1.8 all I have been seeing are debates as to who is the blame? Are vehicles too strong? AV too weak? Who needs a buff? Who needs a nerf? Who is "ruining" the game? Is this Infantry 514 or Vehicle 514?

Well, enough! I cant believe no one sees the real problem here; other infantry.

I have fittings that can solo a non hardened tank. I have Forge Guns fitting that can scare a tank away into the hills with 1 shot. And when I use them, 90% of the time its enemy infantry who kill me while i am attacking the tank.

See, i just dont get it. Some of you act like you hate vehicles oh so much, but then you pad your KDRs by killing enemies with Sward Launchers, and then subsequently wonder why vehicles run rampant. You discourage someone from being dedicated AV, and then wonder why there are tanks everywhere?!

Stop asking CCP to fix problems that are enabled by your own wants! If this community had any backbone, you could rally a "let the AV guys do their job" movement, and have the tanks scared within a month. But no, you kill the guys killing the tanks, and then complain that you should be able to kill the tank too. **** off with the double standards. If you are against tanks, let the enemy kill the friendly tank on your team.

So my advice for the whole situation is; **** off and let the guy do his job! Even if he is attacking a friendly tank, thing is, if he succeeds, the friendly tanker may put his tanks away, and wont make an appearance as an enemy tank a few games later.

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LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 50	Posted - 2014.03.23 19:28:00 - [1] - Quote So ever since 1.8 all I have been seeing are debates as to who is the blame? Are vehicles too strong? AV too weak? Who needs a buff? Who needs a nerf? Who is "ruining" the game? Is this Infantry 514 or Vehicle 514? Well, enough! I cant believe no one sees the real problem here; other infantry. I have fittings that can solo a non hardened tank. I have Forge Guns fitting that can scare a tank away into the hills with 1 shot. And when I use them, 90% of the time its enemy infantry who kill me while i am attacking the tank. See, i just dont get it. Some of you act like you hate vehicles oh so much, but then you pad your KDRs by killing enemies with Sward Launchers, and then subsequently wonder why vehicles run rampant. You discourage someone from being dedicated AV, and then wonder why there are tanks everywhere?! Stop asking CCP to fix problems that are enabled by your own wants! If this community had any backbone, you could rally a "let the AV guys do their job" movement, and have the tanks scared within a month. But no, you kill the guys killing the tanks, and then complain that you should be able to kill the tank too. ** off with the double standards. If you are against tanks, let the enemy kill the friendly tank on your team. So my advice for the whole situation is; ** off and let the guy do his job! Even if he is attacking a friendly tank, thing is, if he succeeds, the friendly tanker may put his tanks away, and wont make an appearance as an enemy tank a few games later.
Vulcanus Lightbringer Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 344	Posted - 2014.03.23 19:52:00 - [2] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: I have fittings that can solo a non hardened tank. There are no non-hardened tanks.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6067	Posted - 2014.03.23 19:55:00 - [3] - Quote I hold myself to a strict, arms-down policy with fellow AVers. Friendly or Hostile, the HAV can DIAF for all I care. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8664	Posted - 2014.03.23 20:05:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah some AV puts the fear in me...... I was getting him in the FW match against Death Firm through shield for about 1000+ damage...but the time I even had the knowledge I was being fired upon/ activated hardeners I was down 1/2 my EHP and forced off of the point I was defending. The way they had their AV set up I couldnt even get close to them, nor could our infantry. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1935	Posted - 2014.03.23 20:07:00 - [5] - Quote ..............................................wut? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 345	Posted - 2014.03.23 20:38:00 - [6] - Quote This one left me scratching my head. Huh? Because, that's why.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6069	Posted - 2014.03.23 21:01:00 - [7] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: This one left me scratching my head. Huh? ..............................................wut? Basically, he's saying that if you believe HAVs are overpowered, quit killing the AVers and let them do their jobs. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2284	Posted - 2014.03.23 21:31:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: This one left me scratching my head. Huh? ..............................................wut? Basically, he's saying that if you believe HAVs are overpowered, quit killing the AVers and let them do their jobs. This is a good idea. Means more WP for me to road kill! ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1617	Posted - 2014.03.23 22:12:00 - [9] - Quote The real problem is people not understanding that we are in the first iteration of rebalance and CCP has stated clearly this is an ongoing thing. We are far from this being the final situation. "Stay stealthy scouts." GÇô Ron Burgundy
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 324	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:03:00 - [10] - Quote Trying to blame terrible game design on players acting in a predictable manner is one of the worst cop-outs I've ever heard. We shouldn't be fundamentally trying to go against the inherent design of the game because it's unbalanced, we should just demand a balanced game. Anyway, with that out of the way, the idea of not killing enemy AV players actually does intrigue me, at least for now. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.

Soldiersaint Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 755	Posted - 2014.03.24 02:17:00 - [11] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: So ever since 1.8 all I have been seeing are debates as to who is the blame? Are vehicles too strong? AV too weak? Who needs a buff? Who needs a nerf? Who is "ruining" the game? Is this Infantry 514 or Vehicle 514? Well, enough! I cant believe no one sees the real problem here; other infantry. I have fittings that can solo a non hardened tank. I have Forge Guns fitting that can scare a tank away into the hills with 1 shot. And when I use them, 90% of the time its enemy infantry who kill me while i am attacking the tank. See, i just dont get it. Some of you act like you hate vehicles oh so much, but then you pad your KDRs by killing enemies with Sward Launchers, and then subsequently wonder why vehicles run rampant. You discourage someone from being dedicated AV, and then wonder why there are tanks everywhere?! Stop asking CCP to fix problems that are enabled by your own wants! If this community had any backbone, you could rally a "let the AV guys do their job" movement, and have the tanks scared within a month. But no, you kill the guys killing the tanks, and then complain that you should be able to kill the tank too. ** off with the double standards. If you are against tanks, let the enemy kill the friendly tank on your team. So my advice for the whole situation is; ** off and let the guy do his job! Even if he is attacking a friendly tank, thing is, if he succeeds, the friendly tanker may put his tanks away, and wont make an appearance as an enemy tank a few games later. So if an enemy is trying to destroy a tank on my team im supposed to let him do it? ok its official this guys a nut. this may be a video game but there is no way in hell im going to let my enemy kill my teammates tank. people who do this are worse than cheaters. players have every right to play however they want to play. i have swarm 5 prof 3 but i get killed all the time by enemy soldiers. you know why? Thats how its supposed to be thats why. stop complaining about dying. Its like you people are freaking children. All i keep seeing is....WAAAA ITS NOT FAIR SO DONT DO IT OR IM GONNA TELL MOMMY.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1943	Posted - 2014.03.24 02:26:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: This one left me scratching my head. Huh? ..............................................wut? Basically, he's saying that if you believe HAVs are overpowered, quit killing the AVers and let them do their jobs. Again, wut? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Justice Prevails 233	Posted - 2014.03.24 02:43:00 - [13] - Quote As much as I hate tanks, hate red dots more. Its up to CCP to fix the problem. If a tank is on my team, it is my job to protect him and I hope they feel that it's their job to protect me. Besides, the AV guy is still a threat to infantry teammates. Cappuccino slimfast: Will make your urine smell like a starbucks:-)
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 424	Posted - 2014.03.24 03:07:00 - [14] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: So ever since 1.8 all I have been seeing are debates as to who is the blame? Are vehicles too strong? AV too weak? Who needs a buff? Who needs a nerf? Who is "ruining" the game? Is this Infantry 514 or Vehicle 514? Well, enough! I cant believe no one sees the real problem here; other infantry. I have fittings that can solo a non hardened tank. I have Forge Guns fitting that can scare a tank away into the hills with 1 shot. And when I use them, 90% of the time its enemy infantry who kill me while i am attacking the tank. See, i just dont get it. Some of you act like you hate vehicles oh so much, but then you pad your KDRs by killing enemies with Sward Launchers, and then subsequently wonder why vehicles run rampant. You discourage someone from being dedicated AV, and then wonder why there are tanks everywhere?! Stop asking CCP to fix problems that are enabled by your own wants! If this community had any backbone, you could rally a "let the AV guys do their job" movement, and have the tanks scared within a month. But no, you kill the guys killing the tanks, and then complain that you should be able to kill the tank too. ** off with the double standards. If you are against tanks, let the enemy kill the friendly tank on your team. So my advice for the whole situation is; ** off and let the guy do his job! Even if he is attacking a friendly tank, thing is, if he succeeds, the friendly tanker may put his tanks away, and wont make an appearance as an enemy tank a few games later. Tough love ... I like it . What you say is true . I see players basing what they speck into from reading the forums and if all they see is " A.V. is useless " then you won't have any dedicated A.V. players . I wish it was like that pre 1.7 because there were dedicated A.V. squads that didn't use tanks . They would gang up and search for tanks and man handle them on a daily . I can bear witness to that but now players scare off players who would dedicate themselves to A.V. and on top of that ... they use tanks to kill tanks which clutters the field with more tanks and even more , those are the red liners that many speak about hating . No one brings that up but talk about how they hate red line rail tanks . Good Job OP I couldn't have said it better myself . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
Toby Flenderson research lab 374	Posted - 2014.03.24 03:14:00 - [15] - Quote This is really stupid IMO. Tanks do not discriminate against Avers, they will attack both them and other infantry without hesitation. You're asking for a gentleman's agreement that simply takes about 2 players on one team per tank on the other out of the match. Consider a domination match with 3 tanks on one side. Realistically, this would require at least 6 people focusing solely on tanks to suppress the tanks. I'd argue that 6 AVers is a generous number but the point is that that leaves about 10 players on the team to fight for the objective against 13 other players and (wait for it...) 3 tanks. This is a mismatch. To put it in perspective, imagine if heavies could not be killed by anything except one of a small handfull of anti-heavy (AH) weapons. Imagine further that the way these weapons work requires about 2 people to take down before the heavy runs away or destroys them. Oh, and these AH weapons can't hurt anyone besides heavies. How fair does a match seem if one team calls in 3-5 heavies? Just imagine playing that match. This is how playing as infantry in a tank dominated match feels. To then suggest that we just allow the AHers to "do their jobs" unharmed just removes a large fraction of the team from the focus of the main objective while the heavies dominated every suit in their path. It's really just not a good idea and I'm glad no one is actually trying to make this a real "movement".
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 57	Posted - 2014.03.24 13:43:00 - [16] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: All i keep seeing is....WAAAA ITS NOT FAIR SO DONT DO IT OR IM GONNA TELL MOMMY. Where was i crying? If you want to keep killing enemy AV and keep losing your proto swarm launcher to milita ARs thats fine. Unlike you im not trying to force my views on people im just making suggestions and pointing out a viewpoint that differs from the standard mainstream view of "I should be a super soldier who can OHK any tank". Im just pointing out the basic fact of any eco system anywhere; if you kill off the natural predator, you will get an infestation and overgrowth of its prey. All im saying is dont complain when you lose 10 suits to an Ion Cannon in a game because you wanted to kill 10 AVers in the game before. Justice Prevails wrote: As much as I hate tanks, hate red dots more. Its up to CCP to fix the problem. If a tank is on my team, it is my job to protect him and I hope they feel that it's their job to protect me. Besides, the AV guy is still a threat to infantry teammates. But thats what im trying to say; There is no problem. The problem is that AV give up and dont bother. The solution you want is a militia AV grenade that does 10,000 damage. You want to be able to run your anti infantry assault fit and just have an AV grenade sitting around thinking "I got 3 AV grenades I can kill 3 tanks ah well everythings balanced". Right now there are inexpensive AV fits that can 1 vs 1 a tank. The real problem, is they get killed by some opportunistic infantry before they get a chance to finish their job. Once AV are able to give it their full fight, and its still not working, thats when we can discuss OP/UP. Toby Flenderson wrote: snip The concept is so simple to understand. Which is why I didnt expect many to be able to follow along. So I decided to make a points bulletin to try and see if you can follow; -Guy spawns as AV near area where Madrugar Ion Cannon is picking apart team -Guy throws AV nades at unhardened tank. Tank gets ready to flee, but backs into a wall -Guy prepares his LV5 swarm to finish the tank -Guy gets killed by enemy infantry -Tank flees, repairs, comes back and keeps farming. -Guy gives up trying to do AV and just lets tank farm team ......3 matches later........ -Player who killed AV guy is now on the opposite team of Ion Cannon Madrugar -Player gets killed several times by tank -No one on Players team feels like doing AV cause its unprofitable -Madrugar Ion Cannon tank didnt take any losses last match, so he has a "extra" tank for this match if anything happens -Madrugar Ion Cannon tank goes 27-0 -Player then goers on forums to complain vehicles are too OP and AV too UP Do you get it? If someone tries to do AV and get nothing but heavy losses, they will give up doing AV. And when they give up doing AV, the tanks run fearless. And when tanks run fearless, they are in large numbers in every match. Some of you think that its a "balance issue", but really, Im just pointing out how its a problem you brought upon yourselves. You want an easy kill by killing an AVer, but you dont want to live with the consequences of that choice. (With the consequence being less AV = more tanks around) Im not asking you guys to do anything except understand the consequences. Killing spiders = more mosquitos. Killing AVers = more Tanks.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1452	Posted - 2014.03.24 14:07:00 - [17] - Quote ccp will just look at server numbers: wow! way too many tankers getting kills av gear marketplace sales way down tank nerf hammer Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1178	Posted - 2014.03.24 14:10:00 - [18] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: I have fittings that can solo a non hardened tank. I have Forge Guns fitting that can scare a tank away into the hills with 1 shot. this guy obviously has no clue and never used tanks or AV weaponry
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 609	Posted - 2014.03.24 14:15:00 - [19] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: I have fittings that can solo a non hardened tank. I have Forge Guns fitting that can scare a tank away into the hills with 1 shot. this guy obviously has no clue and never used tanks or AV weaponry No, he must know what he is doing, he stated it. Its right there, you quoted it. There are also cheap AV fits that can solo a tank, he stated that too. I can only assume he doesn't mean a BPO Lav full of remotes being driven by a starter fit. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2304	Posted - 2014.03.24 14:33:00 - [20] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: I have fittings that can solo a non hardened tank. I have Forge Guns fitting that can scare a tank away into the hills with 1 shot. this guy obviously has no clue and never used tanks or AV weaponry You do like to roll your eyes. One day they'll roll right out of your head. Especially since I soloed four tanks today, out of two matches in which I tried. I got the killing strike on eight or nine, though most of those were worked over by my ADS buddy first. No, I wasn't using proto. 'Templar' Sentinel, DAU/2A Assault Forge, 1x Cx Heavy Damage Mod, proficiency three. I threeshot one of them. Another I put four into and finished with a Packed AV Grenade. I think the trick to soloing tanks in 1.7 is invest SP in your chosen method and don't be a scrub. I know a few swarmers who give me a run for my money. ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.

Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 47	Posted - 2014.03.24 14:34:00 - [21] - Quote Really, how is that supposed to work? This is a game design problem, not a player design problem. It is the job of the developers to provide a balanced game with no-nonsense mechanics. It is just very hard to develop a game that has so much self inflicted complexity, the developers deliver on that. Who must change? The beaten child or the abuser? Your logic is so deeply flawed it hurts my brain.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 809	Posted - 2014.03.24 14:36:00 - [22] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The real problem is people not understanding that we are in the first iteration of rebalance and CCP has stated clearly this is an ongoing thing. We are far from this being the final situation. This is not quite true. Just because CCP decides to start at 0 with vehicles does not mean its their first attempt in balancing Vehicles and AV. CCP has tried this before like 3-5 times without any success so what makes you believe they can do it now? And even more important how does the latest patch improve the current imbalance at all? I mean seriously we live now how long with these OP HAVs 3 month? And the best idea CCP was able to come up with is further nerfing AV??? Soooo what do you expect them to magically do in the next 3 month? Do we really have to live with that situation another 3 month? You are right we ARE far away from a balnced situation but sadly CCP is moving further away with 1.8...and I doubt they have any plans to solve the issue anytime soon....


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