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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8702
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Posted - 2014.03.24 01:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Atiim wrote:As long as 1 HAV pilot can kill infantry, it should take 1 AV player to kill them.
Any, and every AV weapon should be effective at destroying vehicles, because every AV weapon (bar REs and AV Grenades) require you to give up your AP abilities, which it the main sacrifice in being able to destroy vehicles.
If an AV weapon can't destroy all vehicles, they shouldn't be forced to make the sacrifice that's made to destroy vehicles.
Furthermore, nobody would use anything other than Heavy AV weapons, negating the reason for other AV weapons existing. Finally someone who doesn't have their head up their ass. He was born with his head firmly stuck up his nether region. Never has he said "you know, let's see what it would take to double or triple team a tank with AV." No, it's always "I can't destroy a tank with flux grenades and a mass driver, nerf them." I get destroyed on a regular basis by people that use intelligence when in game, and not surprisingly, I've never seen them on the forum. However, I sometimes see those people that complain about MLT tanks, using MLT tanks in domination and trying to be as effective as someone like me is. Hypocrites, the lot of you. You live by double standards.
I don't really know about either standard.
I get destroyed sure...but no often.
I like to attribute that to my gameplay, which for the most part it is, but vehicles are pretty powerful.
This can change in a number of ways without detrimentally affecting vehicle vs AV balance.
Additionally few AVers, and I know Atiim knows this, don't look beyond the AV vs HAV scenario.
We have to understand the HAV represent the strongest vehicles that ground forces can deploy, and as such in its skill requirements and ISK cost should reflect that design feature, where as in future we will see lighter frames of both aerial and ground based vehicle such as the suspected speeders, MTAC, MAV, possibly fighters, etc.
As such any direct damage buffs to AV only mess with the balance against those lighter frame vehicle before they are even released.
If any quick fixes need to be made I believe in all honesty they need to be made against HAV so we are able to establish static AV models which will endure until all core vehicle frames are released, at which point all vehicles are rebalanced against such static values.
In all honesty I already see good AV, and AV teams out in the field, but they are typically working with a squad to ensure the destruction of HAV rather than resorting to spamming HAV, rail sniping, etc.
And with those tactics are yielding solid results, forcing me off points, or to advance into their firing lanes, working with HAV and dropships, etc.
However future changes have to be conceded on our end, and not too heavily, if AV and HAV balance is to be achieved. We cannot afford to keep perpetuating the cycle of nerfs and buffs.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8702
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Posted - 2014.03.24 01:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Atiim wrote:As long as 1 HAV pilot can kill infantry, it should take 1 AV player to kill them.
Any, and every AV weapon should be effective at destroying vehicles, because every AV weapon (bar REs and AV Grenades) require you to give up your AP abilities, which it the main sacrifice in being able to destroy vehicles.
If an AV weapon can't destroy all vehicles, they shouldn't be forced to make the sacrifice that's made to destroy vehicles.
Furthermore, nobody would use anything other than Heavy AV weapons, negating the reason for other AV weapons existing. Finally someone who doesn't have their head up their ass. He was born with his head firmly stuck up his nether region. Never has he said "you know, let's see what it would take to double or triple team a tank with AV." No, it's always "I can't destroy a tank with flux grenades and a mass driver, nerf them." I get destroyed on a regular basis by people that use intelligence when in game, and not surprisingly, I've never seen them on the forum. However, I sometimes see those people that complain about MLT tanks, using MLT tanks in domination and trying to be as effective as someone like me is. Hypocrites, the lot of you. You live by double standards. It's not hypocritical to want balance. I don't live by double standards. I expect one aver to kill one tank One tank to kill one infantry And one infantry to kill an aver. Tanks cost more because your invulnerable to infantry. It's pay to win. That doesn't mean you get protection from av. avers aren't invulnerable to their prey (you) ergo they're cheaper. Militia tanks can kill militia suits, militia suits can kill militia av, militia av cannot kill militia vehicles. Ccp needs to start there and work their way up. 3:1:1 isnt balance. you just want to keep your easy mode. tanks are broken. This is not an opinion it's a fact.
indeed. But its also a matter of how easy you want it to be. Functionally any 1 AVers can blow up a tank already. But its godawfully hard. Too hard really.
But consequently you cannot simply make it a matter of one dude with a swarmer, one magazine, at 250m like pre 1.7....that was atrocious balance.
A nice balance would be overlapping engagement zones, solid AV able to take advantage or real cycles of opportunity, with both sides commiting roughly fair and equivalent efforts to destroy one another..... already imagine how certain long range heavies will be able to dish out the hurt...... that really worries me as a tanker.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8717
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Posted - 2014.03.24 02:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Says the guy that's so bad with a tank, he has to use AV to destroy tanks.
So being an tanker who uses AV is being bad? There are many vehicle pilots who also use AV weaponry as well. Heck, you yourself used AV on all of the occasions I've seen you. By your standards alone, you are a bad vehicle pilot.
Okay now you can discount Spkr's opinion for ever.... did he actually tell you you were a scrub for using AV (ANTI ******* VEHICLE) weapons to destroy HAV?
Ugh this is why we all can't have nice things.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8717
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Posted - 2014.03.24 02:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:fine, if vehicles that require > 1 Aver to destroy require > 1 man to operate
Unfortunately you cannot really take that facet away from tanking without making them undesirable units to use...which while it would be nice to find a game with tank realism.....wouldnt sell vehicle aspects well. Its like requiring a co-pilot to fly a dropship, or a Nav man for an LAV...... neither of those make for good gameplay.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8721
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Posted - 2014.03.24 02:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Evolution-7 wrote:Light AV (swarms, mass drivers, plasma cannons and [insert amarrian light launcher here])
-> One light AV unit should be able to destroy light vehicles (jeeps and speeders).
-> Two/three light AV units should be able to destroy medium vehicles (APCs, dropships)
Heavy AV (forges, arc cannons)
-> Two forges can pretty much destroy all vehicles
Side note:
Vehicles regen fast on their own, so whats the need to return spider tanking?
I would love to see regen reduced slightly as sp
I disagree. two swarmers should be enough to scare a tank away if not kill a stupid one but back in 1.6 swarms were ridiculously OP cuz one proto swarmer could take down shield tanks and armor tanks left and right within 5 seconds. Two proto breaches should destroy anything unless its a super tanked tank.
2 can..... any AV fire puts me in a defensive stance... I dislike swarms because they are unpredictable.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8786
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Posted - 2014.03.24 20:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Evolution-7 wrote:
As my signature may be ******* implying, I am a pilot.
It's a good signature as well.
Heart it steel, thunderous engines, gasoline in our veins.
Going down with the hull because it's like a second skin.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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