Yes, I watched Judge's video.

Yes, I agreed with nearly everything he said.

No, I don't see how that changes the broken-ness of swarms.



What I got from that was that DS resist to swarms was broken, and that shield recharge breaking needs to be looked at.

Swarms are no more broken than they were before. Forges have similar issues dealing with multiple hardeners, though obviously not as pronounced.


(I do think Judge could have been more rigorous, however. I don't know, for example, whether or not the STD DSes have the same resists, and to the best of my recollection that wasn't tested. His testing environment was also subpar. I'd think it'd be better had he tested the swarms with a cooperative party on the other side, and preferably with one on his side also.)

Whether the problem is attributed to swarms themselves or the vehicles in question, something is broken. As we all know people on these forums are generally pretty poor at expressing what they actually mean.

The video is already pretty long as it is and gets the main points across sufficiently, so putting extra stuff in just for "completeness" would be a little OTT.

(I do think Judge could have been more rigorous, however. I don't know, for example, whether or not the STD DSes have the same resists, and to the best of my recollection that wasn't tested. His testing environment was also subpar. I'd think it'd be better had he tested the swarms with a cooperative party on the other side, and preferably with one on his side also.)

I did respond to you on this here.



This is a video about the issues. This is in no way the sum total of my testing nor representative of how I gather all my data. It does however form part of the testing. If a control test shows swarms can kill an ADS in 10 hits for example but in no real battle is it possible to ever land 10 hits then the control test does not represent anything other than raw numbers.

Many people need to see it rather than just look at a chart that says it. A chart can be dismissed more easily then watching 3 of us trying to take on a vehicle can.

You need both control battle tests and "in the wild" battle data, These are also useless without a data model. to look for anomalies and run many scenarios.

Also who wants to watch 20 minutes of me standing in a corner shooting 11 different builds of a swarm launcher into an ads..Then again into a tank...then a LAV?

I agree that it showed that hardeners are more broken than swarms are

However I also believe that a full barrage of swarms SHOULD interupt shield regen
Swarms SHOULD have a better damage % on Ds as well

Running stacked hardeners are more broken that swarms are

It seems as though swarms should do x amount of damage per missile, but, according to Judge's video, do significantly less damage. Am I interpreting that incorrectly? What other way is there to interpret this? EDIT: There is no other way to interpret this. In game, we are told swarms do x amount of damage. In practice, they do much less. END EDIT


"I don't know, for example, whether or not the STD DSes have the same resists"

Resist rely on whether you're shooting shield or armor and with what weapon type (explosive does -20% to shields and +20% to armor). Resists are completely independent of the suit/vehicle involved. It's that simple. Takahiro's statement, for example, is completely wrong. "Swarms are explosive, shield is 70% resistance to explosive..." As I said, resistances rely on you hitting shield or armor and with what weapon type. Shields don't have a 70% resistance to explosive weapons. Instead, explosive weapons do -20% damage to shields.

Yes, I watched Judge's video.

Yes, I agreed with nearly everything he said.

No, I don't see how that changes the broken-ness of swarms.



What I got from that was that DS resist to swarms was broken, and that shield recharge breaking needs to be looked at.

Swarms are no more broken than they were before. Forges have similar issues dealing with multiple hardeners, though obviously not as pronounced.


(I do think Judge could have been more rigorous, however. I don't know, for example, whether or not the STD DSes have the same resists, and to the best of my recollection that wasn't tested. His testing environment was also subpar. I'd think it'd be better had he tested the swarms with a cooperative party on the other side, and preferably with one on his side also.)

Swarms are not broken because of the raw numbers on them.

They're broken because of the ability for shields to rep through them, and the ability for armour reps to exceed their DPS.

Swarms themselves might not need alteration, but there are game mechanics which result in Swarms being broken, and EITHER Swarms need a buff OR those mechanics need to be changed.

I never said they shouldn't. Neither did Judge, for the record.



Judge's video showed that ADS had inherent 25% resist on shields and 45% resist on armour against swarms (potentially). I don't recall whether or not he showed the numbers for the STD DSes.

I agree that it showed that hardeners are more broken than swarms are

However I also believe that a full barrage of swarms SHOULD interupt shield regen......no, it shouldnt
Swarms SHOULD have a better damage % on Ds as well

Running stacked hardeners are more broken that swarms are

If shields cant rep through an anti ARMOR weapon then I will never use a shield vehicle again, I'll use a op armor vehucke

As long as VEHICLES can rep through anti-VEHICLE weapons, I'll be saying something is wrong.

Plasma Cannons can't be repped through by shields or armour. Neither can Forge Guns. Neither can high-end AV Grenades, which aren't even meant to be a primary AV weapon. Why should Swarms be the ONLY anti-vehicle weapon incapable of harming certain vehicles?

shields are about regen why shouksnt they out rep swarms if hardener is on? But oh well

Judge's video showed that ADS had inherent 25% resist on shields and 45% resist on armour against swarms (potentially). I don't recall whether or not he showed the numbers for the STD DSes.