DUST Search - What's the deal with alliances?

True Adamance wrote:

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

Luna Angelo wrote:

Ok, another statement, then. The US and Great Britain are allies but didn't used to be. That is your scenario.

My scenario is the US and France. When the US was not the US yet,, we were at war, but since we became independent, France has been our ally. That is over 200 years ago. And it has not changed, at all, in that time. That is the alliances in New Eden.

This is true.

I'm not talking about alliances, though, not really. The fact that the intractable wars have continued for so long, really, is my bone of contention. I can't think of a situation where a war has carried on for such a long period of time.

Again, it's not really the alliances, but the fact that the civilisations have existed in such similar forms for tens of thousands of years. Now, I don't really have a problem with this per se, but it does seem implausible that four civilisations, let alone one, would achieve such complete and total mastery.

The Amarr has the least plausible backstory, in my opinion, where the Cal-Gal have a much more plausible one, so there is that.

Lorhak none of New Edens societies can be directly compared to any of our own......we as players have comparatively little information presented to us about them in terms of culture......

As such we cannot disregard lore.

In an environment where we are educated in our respective cultures a cycle of hate is hard to break.....and contrary to what you think Lorhak yes there are many unforgivable actions that have happened in New Eden that given the cultural climate understandably could not be reconciled.

Remember Lorhak these are heroes of villans in New Eden.....they are just people. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less than people.


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Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2233	Posted - 2014.03.21 06:18:00 - [1] - Quote In the Gal-Matar, Cal-Amarr sense, not the player sense. From my limited understanding of the lore, the Gallente and Amarr have been at loggerheads since they met each other. The Caldari and Gallente have been at war for centuries. Why is the general political situation of New Eden so stagnant? I would have liked to see, for example, even somewhere in the lore, a place where the Caldari and Gallente had even a temporary ceasefire and worked together against, say, the Amarr. Who may or may not have been involved with the Minmatar in a less shackles-and-chains sense. Now, I don't mean that New Eden should suddenly become lovey-dovey and full of 'carebears', but hat the political situations in each empire are so stagnant? I just reread Empyrean Age and Templar One (don't ask me why. I regret it already) and it seems that each faction has it's own organisation, either official or otherwise, that is psychopathically hell-bent on the utter ruin of their opposition. (e.g. Templis Dragonaurs) Why is there no opposite faction, for example? Why are there so few actually and actively committed to military peace in New Eden? In a real sense, not in an 'Emperor Heideran' sense - despite his good wishes Amarr are still in a cataclysmic war with the Minmatar. I don't buy that. I can't think of any point in actual history where a civilisation has been so utterly set against another. Ever. I can't see how such a situation could exist. Eventually, universally, something breaks. One side loses its drive, or both. One side overwhelms the other, or a peace occurs. But it doesn't seem like that's the case in New Eden. Am I missing something? Or are the loremasters of EVE just bad writers? ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2233	Posted - 2014.03.21 06:26:00 - [2] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I stopped reading after you said Gallente and Caldari should have a cease fire. Do you not know what the Gallente has done to the Caldari? The Caldari will NEVER forget that. I don't care about your lore. There is no such thing as an 'unrightable wrong'. There is no such thing as 'we will never forget that'. Eventually someone smooths it over because pointless, irrational hatred is a waste of time. If you actually finished reading, I don't care about your alliance. I want to know, after hundreds and hundreds of years, why one side or both is not utterly, utterly tired of war. That is not reasonable. That is not human. That is breaking my suspension of reality, and prevents me from taking this lore seriously. New Eden's history is written like "oh hey guys, wouldn't it be cool if we had these guys who used robots to fight? Oh, and they fucked these other guys right off, so much that they're gonna fight for like, ever, man. Woah, wouldn't that be sweet as?" Please, give me a reason that isn't your ridiculous 'no but Gallente ate my baby! Twice!'. ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2233	Posted - 2014.03.21 07:07:00 - [3] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Peace, Kirjuun. I will answer his question. Lorhak, The reason is because this is not like modern Earth. We have an unstable variety, because w have unstable governments. The governments in New Eden are stable. They change very little in the centuries. So, their hatreds will survive for ages. As for Cal-Gal war, there have been cease-fires and every time, the Gallente has tried to turn us into something we are not. Instead of following their own tenet of respectiing other cultures, they try to destroy ours. I appreciate that, but it isn't even related to governmental stability. I'm talking about factional stability. The Roman Empire lasted for centuries, but its political attitudes changed all the time, as was expedient. I just don't see how it's reasonable that the factions are so static. I apologise for my brusqueness, Michael, it wasn't what I intended to say. But what I'm talking about isn't directly lore related. I'm referring more to the underpinnings of the lore, and what it is exactly that somehow in a galaxy far far away we have not one, but four civilisations that are implausibly stable and irrationally focused on a single goal, that being the total subjugation of a particular other faction. That just seems really weak from a literary perspective. I suppose it could be justified by saying 'but Jove' or something, and there is an example of supposed divine interaction deep in the Amarr history which could imply direction beyond the empires' explicit influences, but even so, that just seems like hand waving. I suppose that my complaint is that the lore is like a brackish pool; it looks like it could be deep, because you can't see the bottom, but when you put your foot in... it's only knee deep. It just seems like a really lazy justification of the state of (controlled, I know) total war we have currently in New Eden. ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2233	Posted - 2014.03.21 07:19:00 - [4] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Ok, another statement, then. The US and Great Britain are allies but didn't used to be. That is your scenario. My scenario is the US and France. When the US was not the US yet,, we were at war, but since we became independent, France has been our ally. That is over 200 years ago. And it has not changed, at all, in that time. That is the alliances in New Eden. This is true. I'm not talking about alliances, though, not really. The fact that the intractable wars have continued for so long, really, is my bone of contention. I can't think of a situation where a war has carried on for such a long period of time. Again, it's not really the alliances, but the fact that the civilisations have existed in such similar forms for tens of thousands of years. Now, I don't really have a problem with this per se, but it does seem implausible that four civilisations, let alone one, would achieve such complete and total mastery. The Amarr has the least plausible backstory, in my opinion, where the Cal-Gal have a much more plausible one, so there is that. ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2233	Posted - 2014.03.21 07:25:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Ok, another statement, then. The US and Great Britain are allies but didn't used to be. That is your scenario. My scenario is the US and France. When the US was not the US yet,, we were at war, but since we became independent, France has been our ally. That is over 200 years ago. And it has not changed, at all, in that time. That is the alliances in New Eden. This is true. I'm not talking about alliances, though, not really. The fact that the intractable wars have continued for so long, really, is my bone of contention. I can't think of a situation where a war has carried on for such a long period of time. Again, it's not really the alliances, but the fact that the civilisations have existed in such similar forms for tens of thousands of years. Now, I don't really have a problem with this per se, but it does seem implausible that four civilisations, let alone one, would achieve such complete and total mastery. The Amarr has the least plausible backstory, in my opinion, where the Cal-Gal have a much more plausible one, so there is that. Lorhak none of New Edens societies can be directly compared to any of our own......we as players have comparatively little information presented to us about them in terms of culture...... As such we cannot disregard lore. In an environment where we are educated in our respective cultures a cycle of hate is hard to break.....and contrary to what you think Lorhak yes there are many unforgivable actions that have happened in New Eden that given the cultural climate understandably could not be reconciled. Remember Lorhak these are heroes of villans in New Eden.....they are just people. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less than people. This is actually part of it, tbh. It just seems like a hand waving of history to justify current events. Anyway, sorry guys, I'm starting to get a bit confused as to what exactly I mean. I'll think about it and come back later :) Maybe I'll have a more coherent argument then :P ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.