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Oswald Rehnquist
1292
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Posted - 2014.03.20 04:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
The irony was I already went into this in detail (probably 2-3 word doc pages if we add it all up), didn't get a whole lot of replies from other scouts though (though the audience is less than 50). The major problem is as I quote a piece of what I wrote (remember this is suit vs suit not racial vs racial)
Quote:Assaults vs Scouts
Assaults over scouts -
+1 module
+130ish more ehp
Scouts over assaults -
-15 Signature -10 Precision +10 Scan Radius
+30-40% better Regen, only marginally faster .2-.5
+10-50 more cpu and 5-14 pg
+1 Equipment slot
+15% stamina +50% more stam regen
+10% hacking
Essentially to anyone who has ran the numbers, this is not balance in the slightest.
There are several ways to balance this issue, and like the old logi threads any suggestion will be meet with extreme scorn at this point. So I am going to have to prematurely apologize for my ignorant, poorly informed, rage inducing suggestions
So we have slot layout and we have innate suit stats, Measure 1 works on innate stats, and measure 2 takes into account slots.
Measure 1: Quick Fix, Switch Scout and Assault regeneration/delay Values
I particularly like this one because because it differentiates themselves from the commandos in addition to scouts, also having a high regen is pointless without having mid to high ehp so high scout regen really just encourages ehp tanking. If scout regen was lower, it would have to hide/retreat more and tanking would be less useful, and with assaults as medium ehp regen tankers their role could be reinforced as the suit to apply constant pressure.
Measure 2: Remove Scout light Weapon
But let the amarr scout keep the light/sidearm set up, similar to the amarr logi relation to other logis.
Essentially, this forces scouts to lower tier weapons and cqc, which is more reliant on surprise and sneaking around to get the job done as their run and gun abilities would have deteriorated with this change. Obviously this would make me sad, but it is one of the chips on the table for balancing.
Alternative Measure 2: Add 2 mod slots to the assault and add more cpu/pg
Essentially, just power creep the assault over the scout to where the light weapon on the scout can equal the light weapon on the assault because the assault now has a unique and powerful function as thy most customization for war.
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Oswald Rehnquist
1292
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Posted - 2014.03.20 04:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:
Measure 2: Remove Scout light Weapon
But let the amarr scout keep the light/sidearm set up, similar to the amarr logi relation to other logis.
Essentially, this forces scouts to lower tier weapons and cqc, which is more reliant on surprise and sneaking around to get the job done as their run and gun abilities would have deteriorated with this change. Obviously this would make me sad, but it is one of the chips on the table for balancing.
But shotguns are light weapons :((
I know, also losing the snipe rifle would suck as well, which is why I threw out an alternative measure 2 which gave assaults more slots instead of demoting scout slots, but theoretically, the shotgun and sniper file could be made special in that it could fit in one of the scouts sidearm slots. They were obviously able to code it for the black eagle, so I can't image the codding is beyond them making it for all scouts on one of the sidearm slots. But I understand the frustration of losing preferred weapons if you did run light weapons, so I understand any hostile responses that may generate, again I have an alternative version layout out already.
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Oswald Rehnquist
1296
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Posted - 2014.03.20 08:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Matticus Monk wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor. + A billion. I will always defend my scout brothers and sisters equipping their suits how they want but a part of me cries inside when I see tanked out scouts. There really should be more penalty for stacking armor / shields on scout suits... be it reduction to speed or increase to signature. It shouldn't make more sense to speed tank a medium suit and have it be more effective than a light frame. And it shouldn't make more sense to brick tank a light frame and have it be more effective than a medium frame. As a past comrade would say; every time a scout dual tanks, one of the ladies sheds a tear. o7 Hypocrisy detected. "Scouts can fit their suits however they want, but tanked scouts are OP, waaaaah, waaaaah!" I'll be a tanked sensor scout in 1.8. I hope that fits with your ideal of what a scout is (truth is I dont give a damn about what you think. I play this game however I want, because it is a game) Precision 5, Range 5, Dampening 5, Plates 5, Shield Extension 5. CR and possibly Ion Pistol for OHKing undertanked scouts.
Scouts currently divide themselves in light assault (damage or ehp tanking), scanning focus, equipment running / hacking etc in 1.7, we have been doing that since forever, there are quite a few who easily go 37/4 as of now. Our build directions haven't change and won't change in 1.8, we will still have our variations. What some of us are questioning is balance, I'd say its optimal to create comparative advantages rather than absolute advantage, aka roles. Its helps reduce the issues of clear cut winners (or clear cut losers).
For 1.8, I gave assault advantages and scout advantages for all to see, which we all already knew, and the reason the thread is here, the pendulum shifted hard the other way.
You're essentially the epitome of what I fear happening to scouts, which is the FotM/Y cult which by definition values absolute over comparative advantage, very reminiscent of logi thread of yore, (fortunately that one was not my battle).
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