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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2246
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tl;Dr- I think Assaults can be either a skilled racial weapon user fully utilizing their assault bonus, or a minmaxing PRO light/sidearm weapon wielder utilizing weapon damage increases from upgrading weapon tiers.
I really want to be sold on the idea that assault suits are really outclassed by scout suits and/or commandos.
The fair basis for comparison for me would be how do they compare with 2x PRO weapon loadouts. Because in my opinion, the most efficient upgrade in DPS you can make per PG/CPU is first choosing commando for the skills, but then going from STD>ADV>PRO weapon. The increase in fitting cost for the 5% increase in damage per tier is a lot less than the fitting cost from a PRO damage mod. So let us start with max skill suit health/fitting/slot # for the 3 different PRO suits on a caldari PRO.
Assault ck.0 --- 87.5 PG --- 437.5 CPU --- 262.5 (S-Hp)/ 150 (A-Hp) -- 4 high -- 2 low -- 1 equip
Scout ck.0 --- 82.5 PG --- 435 CPU --- 162.5 (S-HP)/ 87.5 (A-Hp) -- 4 high -- 2 low -- 1 equip
Commando ck.0 -- 60 PG --- 362 CPU --- 500 (S-Hp)/ 312.5 (A-Hp) -- 3 high -- 1 low -- 1 equip
At this point we should also acknowlege that the scout is about 10% faster than the assault who is about 25% faster than the commando. I would summarize the difference between scout and assault at this point as the scout trades a little more than a PRO extender and PRO reactive plate for the benefits that equal a PRO shield regulator and PRO shield energizer.
Adding weapons:
Next lets control for the main thing that makes each suit a 'slayer' which would be their weapon loadout. FOr comparison sake, I think PRO RR and PRO Magsec would make the most sense for comparison on these. Commando could choose to fit an even more fitting heavy anti-shield weapon, however, we'll keep these all the same for now. We'll assume light weapon operation is level V, but there are no fitting optimization skills trained.
PRO RR - 71.4 CPU/ 17 PG --- on assault 53.6 CPU/ 12.8 PG
PRO Magsec - 68.9 CPU/ 12 PG ---on assault 51.6 CPU/ 9 PG
So, after fitting both of these weapons on the above 3 suits we get the remaining fitting amount:
Scout ck.0: 294.75 CPU/ 53.5 PG
Assault ck.0: 332.3 CPU/ 65.8 PG
Commando ck.0: 149.8 CPU/ 26 PG
From this, the ONE THING you CAN'T tell me that you will "fit your scout like an assault" and come out with anything near the same thing as an assault who has more fitting space and more effective racial weapons.
An assault suit matching a scout suit for kincats would only be slightly slower sprinting and have roughly 50% more HP. An assault could brick tank better. An assault could fit one PRO damp (to hide from unbonused ADV scans), and still have better fitting space. A scout would be at a further disadvantage if they wanted to fit a cloak AND 'fit like an assault'.
The main advantage scouts have is their stealth. As soon as they are seen, this advantage is fairly meaningless. And their only advantage they have left is their speed and small hitbox and a little better shield regen. Fully utilizing the secondary scout bonuses basically will require sacrificing an 'assault-like' fitting for something a little more thin.
Please convince me more that assaults really ARE outclassed by scouts. The only argument you could be okay with is that you could sacrifice DPS to 'fit like an assault', but you are then becoming a less effective slayer.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2196
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
The commando one could easily be changed to an ADV weapon, thanks to the inherent bonus, but aside from that, I have to agree.
But I run Amarr Assault, and so as long as I keep that bonus I have a niche. So whatever :P
ak.0 4 LYFE
Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
2130
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems like some of your data is wrong, also fit the suits.
Assault is 4/3
Scout is 4/2
For the Federation!
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bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
General Tso's Alliance
901
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Isn't the argument supposed to be Assault vs Logi why would we compare assault vs scout/commando those two have an obvious differesnce in play style.. ?
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
2246
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Seems like some of your data is wrong, also fit the suits.
Assault is 4/3
Scout is 4/2
Shoot, you are right on the slots. My main point is about 'fitting scouts like assaults' and 'scouts being FOTM'. If you can make the case that assaults are better than them then I don't think you can say they will be as amazing as people let on.
Also, with TTK nerfs, sure I think brick logis will still be a thing, but having their single unbonused light weapon will not be so fun when that ONE weapon is doing like -30% damage or more vs. a lot of HP out there.
And yes, the PRO weapon fitting bonus on your light weapon doesn't really make up for the assault vs. logi fitting difference. The logi comes out a small bit ahead, doesn't have to fit a side-arm, but has to fit 2 extra module slots and 3 equipment slots.
So they then start down about one ADV slot's worth of HP, one ADV slot's worth of speed, about a STD slot's worth of stamina/regen, and about an ADV slot's worth of shield regen.
If you then don't fit the equipment to get their equipment bonus, ONLY then can you brick SLIGHTLY better than an assault, often slower than an assault, without a sidearm, with about the same regen time (combining delay and base repair rate). You are basically giving up a side-arm to be a slower more vulnerable brick. |
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