DUST Search - Caldari/Gallente scout stats!

Temias Mercurial wrote:

CRNWLLC wrote:

Temias Mercurial wrote:

Actually, I believe the math is more like this for the Gallente Scout:

>The default suit profile of scouts is 35

>At level 5, Gallente Scouts receive a 25% reduction to suit profile.

>Level 5 dampening offers a 10% reduction to suit profile.

>With one complex dampener or cloak (of any tier) offers another 25% reduction, but the cloak bonus only applies when activated.

>You could combine the cloak and dampener to be invisible to scanners 24/7!

>>>Up to this point, there are no stacking penalties, as no MODULES above the value of 1 have been used (there is no penalty when skills, equipment, and modules are involved, unless you're using more than one of that module. If that's the case, the penalty only effects the module, nothing else)!

So, a suit profile of 35 is reduced by 60%, or multiplied by 0.40, which equates to 14. Well bellow the 1.8 precision stats of the Duvolle focused scanner, which is 20 and can be brought down to 15 through the Gallente Logistics skill bonus.

With the cloak, the bonus is extended to 5.25 for suit profile (35*0.15, a 85% reduction).

This allows scouts to be far more versatile without sacrificing what little they have to dampeners, which is amazing.

Well, I'll be d@mned!

My last numbers followed the "no stacking penalties" model, but I switched it up after hearing from other players that these mods do receive stacking penalties, and after seeing them applied in a fitting utility (though TBH, I don't know about the legitimacy/accuracy of that tool).

Your explanation (at the >>>, and the 85% reduction) is a little unclear to me. I am pretty sure that the bonuses are applied consecutively (ie, base * b1 * b2 *...bn), not cumulatively (ie, base * (b1 + b2 +...bn)). Either way, my main point is: GALLENTE SCOUT (and possibly Amarr) FTW!!!!!!

Also, cloaks are only active for a limited time, require a cool down, and you can only equip one, so you can't run them 24/7!

To be honest, I'm not sure anyone knows how anything is properly calculated (including me). The way you showed (and others) seems overly complicated and unnecessary math for CCP to implement into a game. The simpler it is, the more sense it makes to me, rather than having strings of decimals to calculate. When coding, it makes more sense to have solid simple numbers.


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CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 115	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:39:00 - [1] - Quote This is adapted from an earlier attempt at these calculations; these ones take into account stacking penalties (which I did not initially know applied to electronics modules), having the appropriate module skill to level 5, and that profile/scan numbers round up (something I also didn't initially know). I hope these numbers are accurate. I calculated stacking penalties using this tool. Corrections and clarifications welcomed! Gallente Scout info Scan profile numbers: Base of 35db * .90 (10% bonus from skilling profile dampening to 5) = 32db * .75 (25% bonus from skilling suit to 5) = 24db * .75 (25% bonus from 1 complex damp) = 18db * .783 (21.73% bonus from 2 complex damps) = 15db * .857 (14.26% bonus from 3 complex damps) = 13db * .93 (7.07% bonus from 4 complex damps) = 13db (rounding up from 12.09) Scan precision numbers: Base of 40db * .90 (10% bonus from skilling precision enhancement to 5) = 36db * .8 (20% bonus from 1 complex profile enhancer) = 29db * .826 (17.38% bonus from 2 complex enhancers) = 24db Caldari Scout info Scan profile numbers: Base of 35db * .90 (10% bonus from skilling profile dampening to 5) = 32db * .75 (25% bonus from 1 complex damp) = 24db * .783 (21.73% bonus from 2 complex damps) = 19db Scan precision numbers: Base of 40db * .90 (10% bonus from skilling precision enhancement to 5) = 36db * .75 (25% bonus from skilling suit to 5) = 27db * .8 (20% bonus from 1 complex enhancer) = 22db * .826 (17.38% bonus from 2 complex enhancers) = 19db * .886 (11.41% bonus from 3 complex enhancers) = 17db * .943 (5.66% bonus from 4 complex enhancers) = 17db (rounded up from 16.031) Assuming max skills and proto gear, the moral of the story is, no matter how many profile enhancers the Caldari scout fits, she'll never detect a Gallente scout with 2 complex damps; likewise, a Caldari scout with two complex dampeners will always be invisible to the Gallente scout, even if he fitted two complex enhancers. The only things able to detect any scout fitted with 2 complex damps and max dampening skills is a Gallente logi using the Duvolle Focused AS or a Caldari scout with at least 3 complex enhancers. This could be understood to mean that the dampening bonus granted Gallente suits is way overkill, and is because complex damps give and initial bonus of 25% versus 20% for complex enhancers. Then again, this opens up an "extra" low slot for Gallente scouts, which could be used for another complex damp, granting complete radar invisibility to everything in the game (I actually don't think this is very useful, since two complex damps will make a Gallente scout invisible to everything except a Galllogi AS snapshot, which shouldn't present any problems). Since it's unlikely that most scouts will have fully maxed skills and be running exactly these modules, it will be interesting to see how it plays out, and what scout suit is eventually preferred! And, after writing this, I'm not so sure I'll stick with the Gallente scout... Since radar invisibility is my primary interest as a scout, and since the only way to pick up a scout stacking two complex damps is to either be a Caldari scout with 3+ complex enhancers or a Gallogi, I'm thinking Caldari or Amarr... The only thing about the Gallente scout that still interests me now is that "extra" low slot and the passive armor repping--at 3/s, it's quite useful for a scout with a base armor of 130! My other dropsuit is a Python.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 115	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:47:00 - [2] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I just can't wait to be passively scanning overconfident Gal scouts. That's what I'm saying! It's a tough call--no matter how I cut it, all the scout suits are pretty sweet and seem well-balanced. The Amarr scout, with its extra speed/stamina, higher base EHP, and the ability to get a little tanky, is another contender for me. Since shotties get a bonus to armor, I can foresee folks rocking their Amarr scouts with charged ScR (ie, "the shield shotty"), or just headshotting the heck out of folks with the ScP. My other dropsuit is a Python.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 115	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:56:00 - [3] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Get ready for a lot of Gallente scout hate on this board after 1.8 I'd go Amarr just to avoid the hate(bashing gold suits on this forum is not tolerated) But I'm sticking Gallente to induce said hate. I'm still really on the fence. The Minnie scout is awesome, but I don't use NKs, so that's a no-go for me. The way I see it: Caldari: Potentially able to scan anything (except Gal scouts with 2+ complex damps) Gallente: Radar invisibility to everything + "extra" low slot + built-in passive armor reps Minmatar: Even more Minja-tastic than before! Amarr: Usain Bolt. As of this reply, I am evenly split between wanting the Gallente and Amarr suits; I decided the Caldari's bonuses weren't good enough for me, and this is totally the fault of the 20% complex enhancer bonus versus the 25% complex damp bonus. This disparity means the Caldari scout's specialty (scanning) is by far outstripped by the Gallente's (radar invisibility). My other dropsuit is a Python.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 116	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:14:00 - [4] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: I'm just happy the cloak is only a rank 3 skill. That means I'll have enough SP to train cloaking to 5, pick up an advanced Minmatar Sentinel with advanced HMG to test out and finish off all the profile skills to 5 that I've been putting off. I'll be running a 19 dB Minmatar Scout on March 25th. Nice! I'll be rolling in a 15db Gallente or a 19db Amarr. My other dropsuit is a Python.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 118	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:04:00 - [5] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: If you are talking scout vs. scout that are completely 'signal-fit' though, you still have to look at tank and fitting weapons. I'm not sure what room for tank is left on a gal scout stacking damps or a cal scout stacking precision mods. They are both probably very close to being taken out by a single grenade. Yeah, definitely depends on one's preferences. I was just illustrating what to expect from each suit depending on the number of damps/enhancers fitted. IMO, the Gallente suit wins fitting-wise since it achieves radar invisibility from everything except a Gallogi with a Duvolle Focused AS, which, considering it now only provides a snapshot, shouldn't be a problem for a scout, since the "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" message will presumably still flash, allowing the scout to easily GTFO. Assuming max skills, unless that logi is stacking 4 complex damps, it'd show up on the Gallente scout's radar if he has two complex enhancers. Again, assuming max skills, since the Gallente scout is invisible to the Caldari scout's radar with only 2 complex damps, that leaves 2 low slots for the Gallente scout to stack plates, a repper, whatever. Even if the Caldari scout fits 3 complex enhancers, it still won't be able to pick up the Gallente scout, and will have to stack two complex damps to be sure to stay off its radar. I personally would use the two remaining low slots for a KC and a range amplifier and would use the highs for two precision enhancers, and just accept the OHK nature of the fitting. It's fragility is a trade off for its speed and stealthiness. Throw on a cloak (I probably won't) and now you're mostly completely invisible in every way! My other dropsuit is a Python.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 118	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:21:00 - [6] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: Actually, I believe the math is more like this for the Gallente Scout: >The default suit profile of scouts is 35 >At level 5, Gallente Scouts receive a 25% reduction to suit profile. >Level 5 dampening offers a 10% reduction to suit profile. >With one complex dampener or cloak (of any tier) offers another 25% reduction, but the cloak bonus only applies when activated. >You could combine the cloak and dampener to be invisible to scanners 24/7! >>>Up to this point, there are no stacking penalties, as no MODULES above the value of 1 have been used (there is no penalty when skills, equipment, and modules are involved, unless you're using more than one of that module. If that's the case, the penalty only effects the module, nothing else)! So, a suit profile of 35 is reduced by 60%, or multiplied by 0.40, which equates to 14. Well bellow the 1.8 precision stats of the Duvolle focused scanner, which is 20 and can be brought down to 15 through the Gallente Logistics skill bonus. With the cloak, the bonus is extended to 5.25 for suit profile (350.15, a 85% reduction). This allows scouts to be far more versatile without sacrificing what little they have to dampeners, which is amazing. Well, I'll be d@mned! My last numbers followed the "no stacking penalties" model, but I switched it up after hearing from other players that these mods do receive stacking penalties, and after seeing them applied in a fitting utility (though TBH, I don't know about the legitimacy/accuracy of that tool). Your explanation (at the >>>, and the 85% reduction) is a little unclear to me. I am pretty sure that the bonuses are applied consecutively (ie, base* * b1 * b2 ...bn), not cumulatively (ie, base* * (b1 + b2 +...bn)). Either way, my main point is: GALLENTE SCOUT (and possibly Amarr) FTW!!!!!! Also, cloaks are only active for a limited time, require a cool down, and you can only equip one, so you can't run them 24/7! My other dropsuit is a Python.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 120	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:33:00 - [7] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Actually, I believe the math is more like this for the Gallente Scout: >The default suit profile of scouts is 35 >At level 5, Gallente Scouts receive a 25% reduction to suit profile. >Level 5 dampening offers a 10% reduction to suit profile. >With one complex dampener or cloak (of any tier) offers another 25% reduction, but the cloak bonus only applies when activated. >You could combine the cloak and dampener to be invisible to scanners 24/7! >>>Up to this point, there are no stacking penalties, as no MODULES above the value of 1 have been used (there is no penalty when skills, equipment, and modules are involved, unless you're using more than one of that module. If that's the case, the penalty only effects the module, nothing else)! So, a suit profile of 35 is reduced by 60%, or multiplied by 0.40, which equates to 14. Well bellow the 1.8 precision stats of the Duvolle focused scanner, which is 20 and can be brought down to 15 through the Gallente Logistics skill bonus. With the cloak, the bonus is extended to 5.25 for suit profile (350.15, a 85% reduction). This allows scouts to be far more versatile without sacrificing what little they have to dampeners, which is amazing. Well, I'll be d@mned! My last numbers followed the "no stacking penalties" model, but I switched it up after hearing from other players that these mods do receive stacking penalties, and after seeing them applied in a fitting utility (though TBH, I don't know about the legitimacy/accuracy of that tool). Your explanation (at the >>>, and the 85% reduction) is a little unclear to me. I am pretty sure that the bonuses are applied consecutively (ie, base* * b1 * b2 ...bn), not cumulatively (ie, base* * (b1 + b2 +...bn)). Either way, my main point is: GALLENTE SCOUT (and possibly Amarr) FTW!!!!!! Also, cloaks are only active for a limited time, require a cool down, and you can only equip one, so you can't run them 24/7! To be honest, I'm not sure anyone knows how anything is properly calculated (including me). The way you showed (and others) seems overly complicated and unnecessary math for CCP to implement into a game. The simpler it is, the more sense it makes to me, rather than having strings of decimals to calculate. When coding, it makes more sense to have solid simple numbers. If you follow the link in my first post, it will take you to a page with a calculator and the formula, which is apparently the same one used in EVE. In my coding experience, outputs with long strings of decimals are almost unavoidable when the inputs are multiple and are themselves decimal values. In any case, rounding all decimal values up to the next integer value solves the problem rather nicely. My other dropsuit is a Python.