DUST Search - Letting new guys catch up.

KalOfTheRathi wrote:

Grease Spillett wrote:

I just think the skill cap is unnecessary for new guys. The cap was meant to keep hardcore players from having too much SP. Now what? 500k SP and 400 WP later your getting face rolled by players that have an average of 14-20 mil SP. Just think the system is a mute point for them.

I think that you will have a tough time trying to sell it to CCP/Shanghai because CCP is the name in front of Shanghai. And CCP (old HTFU as a corporate motto themselves) think that working for 7 years to grow into a Dust Merc is fine and dandy. After all, EVE Online expects you to spend over twice that and they are both in New Eden.

You are mistaken in thinking that the SP cap is to limit the hard core player. The SP Cap is to limit every single player. Why? Because seven years or longer will not work if you allow every no-life player to grind to 40M in one year. Why would that player every buy AUR?

AURUM is the fuel that runs the game. It greases the restrictions for new players and existing ones as well.

I believe a compromise would be best. Increase the initial ISK and SP to 2M ISK and 1.5M SP. This is based on my testing. However, you might not know this ... CCP/Shanghai has decreased the initial ISK. So it doesn't look good going forward.

Good Luck, however.

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Grease Spillett Axis of Chaos 369	Posted - 2014.03.18 02:36:00 - [1] - Quote The amount of time it takes to get a character good is about 4 months or so solid. I wish you guys would consider letting new guys grind to unlimited ten million sp then start capping them. It's just too hard to stay with it when you get destroyed for 4 months. Just saying. Next time you see me, bring more friends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 45	Posted - 2014.03.18 03:18:00 - [2] - Quote I'm all for this if every one else gets to grind 10 million has well. whats the standard for new less then a year? how about 10 million for every one playing? it wont make a difference for those with allot of SP and will help those who are still on the low end. I could give you 10 reason why the Dust team cant get the Amarr tank style right but they are all out of care.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1023	Posted - 2014.03.18 03:33:00 - [3] - Quote How are you calculating that? I have a test character that did mostly okay with 1.3M SP spent. Generated 20M ISK and saved passive SP for months. When 1.7 dropped I started using it to see if I really wanted tanks, before I committed the SP from KR into tanks again. And so we are on the same page I recommend that anyone that wants to get into Dust start a character and get passive SP going. Then watch the patch notes and see if the latest is worth spending SP on. If so, spend and start killing Reds. We could use better teaching/tutorials. Or else get the Blue Belles to take some caffeine instead of beer or 420 herbal solutions. Cause the beginner sets are ... well, dumb as a fence post. In fact I have played matches where the entire set of Blue Belles added together wouldn't be as smart as any one fence post. Just sayin. And so it goes.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 531	Posted - 2014.03.18 03:41:00 - [4] - Quote no, i have yet to reach 5 mil and i perform very average. 1.0 kdr i know not good but as good as needs to be module poll stuff for alts
Grease Spillett Axis of Chaos 369	Posted - 2014.03.18 04:10:00 - [5] - Quote I just think the skill cap is unnecessary for new guys. The cap was meant to keep hardcore players from having too much sp. Now what? 500k sp and 400 wp later your getting face rolled by players that have an average of 14-20 mil sp. Just think the system is a mute point for them. Next time you see me, bring more friends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 857	Posted - 2014.03.18 06:07:00 - [6] - Quote I'm for this. Best PVE idea I've seen.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1026	Posted - 2014.03.18 09:07:00 - [7] - Quote Grease Spillett wrote: I just think the skill cap is unnecessary for new guys. The cap was meant to keep hardcore players from having too much SP. Now what? 500k SP and 400 WP later your getting face rolled by players that have an average of 14-20 mil SP. Just think the system is a mute point for them. I think that you will have a tough time trying to sell it to CCP/Shanghai because CCP is the name in front of Shanghai. And CCP (old HTFU as a corporate motto themselves) think that working for 7 years to grow into a Dust Merc is fine and dandy. After all, EVE Online expects you to spend over twice that and they are both in New Eden. You are mistaken in thinking that the SP cap is to limit the hard core player. The SP Cap is to limit every single player. Why? Because seven years or longer will not work if you allow every no-life player to grind to 40M in one year. Why would that player every buy AUR? AURUM is the fuel that runs the game. It greases the restrictions for new players and existing ones as well. I believe a compromise would be best. Increase the initial ISK and SP to 2M ISK and 1.5M SP. This is based on my testing. However, you might not know this ... CCP/Shanghai has decreased the initial ISK. So it doesn't look good going forward. Good Luck, however. And so it goes.
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Renegade Alliance 276	Posted - 2014.03.18 09:38:00 - [8] - Quote why not supply SP boosts for new players that don't need to be aurum bought? for the first 5m sp, the average SP gain per skirmish is like 15k. then after 5m sp, its 10k, and after 10m, its normalised. no other factors, just triple sp for those under 5m, double from 5-10m. its totally friendly to the newby community. Best game with a Python: 33kills 1 death (1.6) 24kills 1 death (1.7)
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 17	Posted - 2014.03.18 11:44:00 - [9] - Quote Besides the SP boost, there is the knowledge of the maps, fittings and the metagame, that really determines how well a player is performing. My guess is 30% gear and core skills, 50% teamwork and experience (knowledge which skills are worthwhile too), 20% sheer luck (situational development outside of the own area of influence). This cant be "boosted" except by forcing player into school-corporations and eliminating solo-play. I would prefer another way of empowering new players and keep them motivated for the long run: Giving them a role. Like: what do they contribute to the team by being slaughtered? Then rewarding them for it. The question is, what could that role be? They cant slay: because enemy suits will be better geared, etc. They cant go support: because they dont know when to rez and rep in a smart way. They will generally act "stupid", through lack of experience and accustomization to standard FPSs So what can they do? Die often? Why not rewarding them for that? Operation Meatshield: whenever you die in a militia starter fit, you get 25WP ? Dont know ...
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1086	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:07:00 - [10] - Quote Change the starting SP to around 2-3mil. If wisely spent you can have a fairly competitive ADV character with that much SP.

Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 669	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:08:00 - [11] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Grease Spillett wrote: I just think the skill cap is unnecessary for new guys. The cap was meant to keep hardcore players from having too much SP. Now what? 500k SP and 400 WP later your getting face rolled by players that have an average of 14-20 mil SP. Just think the system is a mute point for them. I think that you will have a tough time trying to sell it to CCP/Shanghai because CCP is the name in front of Shanghai. And CCP (old HTFU as a corporate motto themselves) think that working for 7 years to grow into a Dust Merc is fine and dandy. After all, EVE Online expects you to spend over twice that and they are both in New Eden. You are mistaken in thinking that the SP cap is to limit the hard core player. The SP Cap is to limit every single player. Why? Because seven years or longer will not work if you allow every no-life player to grind to 40M in one year. Why would that player every buy AUR? AURUM is the fuel that runs the game. It greases the restrictions for new players and existing ones as well. I believe a compromise would be best. Increase the initial ISK and SP to 2M ISK and 1.5M SP. This is based on my testing. However, you might not know this ... CCP/Shanghai has decreased the initial ISK. So it doesn't look good going forward. Good Luck, however. You are very mistaken in your comparison to EvE. In EvE, new pilots have the option to play the softer side, Missions, Industry, ect. Hell, even in PvP, you can "choose" your battles. In just a week, a player can have the basic skills to make an impact and feel useful. Yeah, CCP does have an HTFU attitude to EvE. Though does that make sense for a FPS?? HTFU get guud, how the **** do you get good when you face proto day in and day out. And it only get's WORSE as time goes on and more enter the rank of proto. Your experiment is cute at best with a new player. You already know the ins and outs, understand the SP system, the maps, the weapons, the WP system. Yeah, I can do decent with my 1.2 Mil alt, BECAUSE I know all of this! I don't have to even fire a bullet to do well in a match. But go against a proto suit, and my weapon magically becomes ineffective. Now think back to when you were a noob, it took me at the very least 3 months just to get 6 mil SP. Of which was spread all over the place with no real focus (because I was looking for a weapon that kills, little did I understand that was in proto). But I started after official release May of last year. When most everyone was on my level, and only a match here and there had proto. Let's get one thing straigt here. Eve, open world sandbox MMO, basically a universe with endless potential. Dust, FPS shooter with RPG character development. You shoot people in the face, in 3 different game modes, on a couple different maps. But here's the thing, you shoot people, day in, day out. And you say HTFU get gud motto need apply? Way to drive away any potential player base. Please quit with the limited comparisons to EvE. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Renegade Alliance 277	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:25:00 - [12] - Quote Hansei Kaizen wrote: Besides the SP boost, there is the knowledge of the maps, fittings and the metagame, that really determines how well a player is performing. My guess is 30% gear and core skills, 50% teamwork and experience (knowledge which skills are worthwhile too), 20% sheer luck (situational development outside of the own area of influence). This cant be "boosted" except by forcing player into school-corporations and eliminating solo-play. I would prefer another way of empowering new players and keep them motivated for the long run: Giving them a role. Like: what do they contribute to the team by being slaughtered? Then rewarding them for it. The question is, what could that role be? They cant slay: because enemy suits will be better geared, etc. They cant go support: because they dont know when to rez and rep in a smart way. They will generally act "stupid", through lack of experience and accustomization to standard FPSs So what can they do? Die often? Why not rewarding them for that? Operation Meatshield: whenever you die in a militia starter fit, you get 25WP ? Dont know ... well, maybe for players under 5m sp, grouping into squads could be mandatory for anything other than ambush. And once you start the game, you are required to join a solid corporation. The tutorial is absolutely pointless for anything in-game as it just preps you (barebones) for starting a battle.. after that, its just headless chicken mode Best game with a Python: 33kills 1 death (1.6) 24kills 1 death (1.7)
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Renegade Alliance 277	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:26:00 - [13] - Quote I believe the key to improving new player experience is to give them experience and better tutorials, along side SP boosts to better equip them. anybody agree? Best game with a Python: 33kills 1 death (1.6) 24kills 1 death (1.7)
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 251	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:46:00 - [14] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: How are you calculating that? I have a test character that did mostly okay with 1.3M SP spent. Generated 20M ISK and saved passive SP for months. When 1.7 dropped I started using it to see if I really wanted tanks, before I committed the SP from KR into tanks again. And so we are on the same page I recommend that anyone that wants to get into Dust start a character and get passive SP going. Then watch the patch notes and see if the latest is worth spending SP on. If so, spend and start killing Reds. We could use better teaching/tutorials. Or else get the Blue Belles to take some caffeine instead of beer or 420 herbal solutions. Cause the beginner sets are ... well, dumb as a fence post. In fact I have played matches where the entire set of Blue Belles added together wouldn't be as smart as any one fence post. Just sayin. The thing is, you knew how to play, you had the knowledge of the maps, of the guns, of what to put speed into. A new player has none of that. Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Spike Slania CREATURES OF THE NIGHT 5	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:47:00 - [15] - Quote I think more of a league ranking system or better team matching set ups would greatly help. How many times have I entered a match going solo just to play a game or 2 before going somewhere and end up on a team full of non player corps vs a team made up of a squad of Sver True Blood, What the French, and Nyain San. At that point I just go...... WTF!? How is this game even balanced, not sure if it's fun for ether side other then for the enemy team they just get to mindlessly proto stomp slaughter a team of new guys. Should do something to atleast decrease team match ups like these.
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Renegade Alliance 277	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:50:00 - [16] - Quote Spike Slania wrote: I think more of a league ranking system or better team matching set ups would greatly help. How many times have I entered a match going solo just to play a game or 2 before going somewhere and end up on a team full of non player corps vs a team made up of a squad of Sver True Blood, What the French, and Nyain San. At that point I just go...... WTF!? How is this game even balanced, not sure if it's fun for ether side other then for the enemy team they just get to mindlessly proto stomp slaughter a team of new guys. Should do something to atleast decrease team match ups like these. the idea of tiering off players is a much suggested thread, by myself anyways... the problem with this is the number of available players at any one time could extend queues by ... a lot :P because new players quit, old players are grossly over SP, and theres barely any inbetween. Best game with a Python: 33kills 1 death (1.6) 24kills 1 death (1.7)
Spike Slania CREATURES OF THE NIGHT 5	Posted - 2014.03.18 16:43:00 - [17] - Quote There's still the idea of better spreading out the placing of squads between teams, 1 team having 3 full squads while the other no squads
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 47	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:50:00 - [18] - Quote Another thing that needs to happen is that the base price for the skill system in place needs to be lowered to 5,000 WHILE keeping the rest of the system the same. with this change the excess SP will be put back into the free SP pool with NO RESPEC. this will speed up character development slightly and will also help out the older characters a little. I could give you 10 reason why the Dust team cant get the Amarr tank style right but they are all out of care.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7456	Posted - 2014.03.19 00:13:00 - [19] - Quote Not this topic again. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
KILLER EI ITE16 0uter.Heaven 3	Posted - 2014.03.19 02:12:00 - [20] - Quote I think that removing skill cap would help it still wouldn't really fix it because they would still get protostomped. My opinion they need to make matchmaking more balanced(ie 1 Proto squad would dominate an entire team). I also think Tutorials should be better improved so that they have a better understanding of what to skill into and what to look for(ie the bonuses). Another thing would be to give an extra million starting skill points. They could do it after they complete the tutorial so that they don't just spend it into something they regret, I've done it many times.

Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 47	Posted - 2014.03.19 03:20:00 - [21] - Quote they would need 5 million skill points at least to make them some what effective. I could give you 10 reason why the Dust team cant get the Amarr tank style right but they are all out of care.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 485	Posted - 2014.03.19 17:30:00 - [22] - Quote Either reducing or eliminating the skill cap for new players is a great idea. It's a good head start type program for new players, which also gives incentive to play. (But just to nit pick, I'd say unlimited to five million, then double the regular cap for 5-10 mill, then back to normal after that.) Great idea either way +1 Who cares what some sniper has to say
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2050	Posted - 2014.03.19 18:01:00 - [23] - Quote Grease Spillett wrote: The amount of time it takes to get a character good is about 4 months or so solid. I wish you guys would consider letting new guys grind to unlimited ten million sp then start capping them. It's just too hard to stay with it when you get destroyed for 4 months. Just saying. No. Newbies perform mostly bad because they come from relatively fast paced shooters. SP don't matter THAT much. It's more about working together and being more careful on the battlefield. Heck: I had a friend try out the game. He didn't spend a single SP. He skipped Academy so we could play together. His first match he did a solid 350 WP. Not that great, but pretty well for a newbie without having spent any SP. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 677	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:26:00 - [24] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: no, i have yet to reach 5 mil and i perform very average. 1.0 kdr i know not good but as good as needs to be This is very true. Tactics and playing smart makes all the difference. Sure, your skills and suits have something do you with your survival, but you have everything to do with it by playing smart. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 877	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:29:00 - [25] - Quote I have stated this many times. Searching for my previous posts, stand bye. *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 24	Posted - 2014.03.20 17:54:00 - [26] - Quote Like it. Clear and simple. My guess is the veteran bias in dust is gonna get worse and worse. This could be somewhat of a solution. Though I would prefer a more "feelable" solution for the noobs. Something that motivates them directly through instant gratification in / after battle. The SP boost is slightly too abstract for my taste.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 879	Posted - 2014.03.21 20:05:00 - [27] - Quote Hansei Kaizen wrote: Like it. Clear and simple. My guess is the veteran bias in dust is gonna get worse and worse. This could be somewhat of a solution. Though I would prefer a more "feelable" solution for the noobs. Something that motivates them directly through instant gratification in / after battle. The SP boost is slightly too abstract for my taste. such as *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 257	Posted - 2014.03.21 20:18:00 - [28] - Quote No, PvE comes out this year let them play that if they don't want to be proto stomped like everyone else. PvE 2014


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