DUST Search - Forge Guns, with a bit of change.

Zero Harpuia wrote:

I used Forge Guns WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in the good old Craterlake days, and even back then the way they worked made no sense to me. The Lore Hound in me asks 'why do they have travel time if they are explicitly Rail-tech?' (Balancing obviously, would you want that to be Hitscan if someone was aiming it at you?) The variants, on the other hand, still make me wonder. I'd like to propose a change to the Forge Gun variants so that the tool truly has a reason to have more than Assault Forge Guns. Keep in mind that if an aspect is not talked about, it is kept as-is. All variants are still at the current projectile speed, with the current fire method and current ISK cost, for example.

Forge Guns
Keep them the way they are, the middle ground. Maybe alter their damage abit one way or the other, but keep it consistently the 'jack-of-all-trades' Forge Variant.

Assault Forge Guns
The Assault Forge Gun is, currently, pretty damn superior to the basic. It charges faster, does more damage, and can shoot more charges faster than the other variants, all with the only weakness being an inability to hold a charge. How about we make it a bit more in-line with the other Assault weapons? Bigger clip, more reserve ammo, less damage, all that good stuff? It would have a role in dealing with faster and weaker targets, while not quite getting the sheer DPS you would want for dealing with something large and slow. In other words, an Anti-LAV/Dropship weapon.

Breach Forge Guns
The Breach has the most power per shot, but unless you are firing in tandem with another AV source you will never have a Line of Sight on your target long enough to kill it solo. It also anchors you to the spot, which turns many off the gun from the get-go. We may want to add something special for it, have it 'Breach' a Hardener, possibly by ignoring a set percentage of an enemy's resistances or having an active ability to 'Breach' Active Hardeners for about equal to the Hardener's legths at each meta level. I honestly need more data and ideas from you all about the Breach, as I want it to remain viable, but not make it a oneshotter and therefore the go-to.

Burst Forge Guns: Credit to Harpyja. Here's a link to a similar weapon.
The Burst will have the highest Alpha damage output of all the Forge Guns, but at a cost. With slightly increased clip size and ammo capacity, it will also be able to charge more than one shot at a time. A single shot will be pretty weak, not even a standard Forge Gun's damage and takes longer to charge than the slightly weaker Assault Forge Gun. Then, the second shot will charge (in less time) and give it enough damage output to put it about on level with a Breach. It will, however, take longer to charge to this level than a Breach would. The magic happens at the third level, with three charged rounds. The drawbacks, however, are equally severe.
1. The gun will have high recoil, and fire the three shots one after necessitating tight control and compensation on the user's part to get the full effect that they worked so hard to charge towards.
2. The gun will fire all the shots at once, but in a slight spread like a shotgun. This will mean that the gun MUST be fired at closer ranges to get the full effect, and cannot readily be used against aerial or speedy threats

Tactical Forge Guns: Credit to Harpyja.
The Tactical will have elements of the Charged Sniper Rifle. A Scope, a bonus to weakspots, and a shot that can be fired at weaker levels or charged for a fearsome blast. At full charge, this gun will still be weaker than a Breach unless it fires on the weakspot, so it relies on a Heavy positioning themselves quite well. The weapon will also have a heating function, steadily building heat as it is kept charged. This will prevent someone from hiding away and camping with the fully charged blast just waiting for a chance to fall into their lap, as well as trying to zero in on Infantry using the sights. The gun will reach full power before it overheats, and if it does overheat it will discharge anyway, but you will suffer both seizing and feedback damage. The range may also be determined by the charge level to further discourage using it as an infantry sniping tool, and the precise nature of the weapon will result in exceedingly weak splash damage, discouraging 'mortaring' behaviors.

Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...


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Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 251	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:13:00 - [1] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: I used Forge Guns WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in the good old Craterlake days, and even back then the way they worked made no sense to me. The Lore Hound in me asks 'why do they have travel time if they are explicitly Rail-tech?' (Balancing obviously, would you want that to be Hitscan if someone was aiming it at you?) The variants, on the other hand, still make me wonder. I'd like to propose a change to the Forge Gun variants so that the tool truly has a reason to have more than Assault Forge Guns. Keep in mind that if an aspect is not talked about, it is kept as-is. All variants are still at the current projectile speed, with the current fire method and current ISK cost, for example. Forge Guns Keep them the way they are, the middle ground. Maybe alter their damage abit one way or the other, but keep it consistently the 'jack-of-all-trades' Forge Variant. Assault Forge Guns The Assault Forge Gun is, currently, pretty damn superior to the basic. It charges faster, does more damage, and can shoot more charges faster than the other variants, all with the only weakness being an inability to hold a charge. How about we make it a bit more in-line with the other Assault weapons? Bigger clip, more reserve ammo, less damage, all that good stuff? It would have a role in dealing with faster and weaker targets, while not quite getting the sheer DPS you would want for dealing with something large and slow. In other words, an Anti-LAV/Dropship weapon. Breach Forge Guns The Breach has the most power per shot, but unless you are firing in tandem with another AV source you will never have a Line of Sight on your target long enough to kill it solo. It also anchors you to the spot, which turns many off the gun from the get-go. We may want to add something special for it, have it 'Breach' a Hardener, possibly by ignoring a set percentage of an enemy's resistances or having an active ability to 'Breach' Active Hardeners for about equal to the Hardener's legths at each meta level. I honestly need more data and ideas from you all about the Breach, as I want it to remain viable, but not make it a oneshotter and therefore the go-to. Burst Forge Guns: Credit to Harpyja. Here's a link to a similar weapon. The Burst will have the highest Alpha damage output of all the Forge Guns, but at a cost. With slightly increased clip size and ammo capacity, it will also be able to charge more than one shot at a time. A single shot will be pretty weak, not even a standard Forge Gun's damage and takes longer to charge than the slightly weaker Assault Forge Gun. Then, the second shot will charge (in less time) and give it enough damage output to put it about on level with a Breach. It will, however, take longer to charge to this level than a Breach would. The magic happens at the third level, with three charged rounds. The drawbacks, however, are equally severe. 1. The gun will have high recoil, and fire the three shots one after necessitating tight control and compensation on the user's part to get the full effect that they worked so hard to charge towards. 2. The gun will fire all the shots at once, but in a slight spread like a shotgun. This will mean that the gun MUST be fired at closer ranges to get the full effect, and cannot readily be used against aerial or speedy threats Tactical Forge Guns: Credit to Harpyja. The Tactical will have elements of the Charged Sniper Rifle. A Scope, a bonus to weakspots, and a shot that can be fired at weaker levels or charged for a fearsome blast. At full charge, this gun will still be weaker than a Breach unless it fires on the weakspot, so it relies on a Heavy positioning themselves quite well. The weapon will also have a heating function, steadily building heat as it is kept charged. This will prevent someone from hiding away and camping with the fully charged blast just waiting for a chance to fall into their lap, as well as trying to zero in on Infantry using the sights. The gun will reach full power before it overheats, and if it does overheat it will discharge anyway, but you will suffer both seizing and feedback damage. The range may also be determined by the charge level to further discourage using it as an infantry sniping tool, and the precise nature of the weapon will result in exceedingly weak splash damage, discouraging 'mortaring' behaviors. Good idea, but the tac will be misused as a OKH sniper rifle. Also, what about dropships? A breach nearly 0KHs my Myron. The proposed burst would render flying any dropship other than an assault a nightmare. Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...