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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2202
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Posted - 2014.03.17 10:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Necessary, the rifles can be internally balanced later, but our first port of call should be getting the general TTK right first.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2202
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Posted - 2014.03.17 10:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tweaksz wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Necessary, the rifles can be internally balanced later, but our first port of call should be getting the general TTK right first. I know that but if CCP has the time to change the damage on rifles then they had enough time to see how said changes would affect all rifles including variants.
Not necessarily when you consider the amount of stuff added its qute easy to see how they may not have had time for full rifle rebalancing.
Also we only know of changes to damage values, other in-game mechanics may have been tweaked.
Keep Calm, but keep at it, the Plasma Rifle is gimped against the other rifles, yes, but it is still grossly overpowered against the majority of niche weapons, until that is fixed I would say its unlikely they will balance the rifles internally, its just easier.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2203
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Posted - 2014.03.17 10:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tweaksz wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Tweaksz wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Necessary, the rifles can be internally balanced later, but our first port of call should be getting the general TTK right first. I know that but if CCP has the time to change the damage on rifles then they had enough time to see how said changes would affect all rifles including variants. Not necessarily when you consider the amount of stuff added its qute easy to see how they may not have had time for full rifle rebalancing. Also we only know of changes to damage values, other in-game mechanics may have been tweaked. Keep Calm, but keep at it, the Plasma Rifle is gimped against the other rifles, yes, but it is still grossly overpowered against the majority of niche weapons, until that is fixed I would say its unlikely they will balance the rifles internally, its just easier. What I ment was instead of moving stuff just for the hell of it they should research what effect the changes would have thoroughly instead and releasing it at a later point in time where they can be sure or slightly comfortable that things won't go awry. No need for them to rebalance completely, if they are nerfing ALL the rifles then what's the point if it's still going to be unbalanced.
Sorry misunderstood you there.
Well youve got a choice nerf an overpowered set of weapons so that people stop bitching about them for a while, which gives you time to actually completly rebalance them and ALL of the associated mechanics. (Recoil, Mag Size, Reload Time, Zoom Fidelity, TTS, range, damage, ROF)
Or you wait 3 months before making any changes, the rifles become more prelevant, player retention drops and people continue to whine making stupid demands that when 100's of people agree seem rather reasonable. All while your tryimg to balance these overpowered weapons, create new ones that aren't overpowered and build more mechanics into the meta of the game.
From a developers point of view the first option is the best one, shut up the majority (keep em happy) deal with the fine tuning in piece.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2203
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Posted - 2014.03.17 10:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:Nosid Katona wrote:You've completely gotten off point now and ignored my argument in its entirety. We are discussing balance between weapons that are comparable in every way, not Prototype VS lesser gear or the obvious imbalance of AV VS Tanks.it doesn't matter of it is a ADV AR VS an ADV ACR the imbalance is quite clear and the same goes for the PRO versions.
Your idea of balancing on the idea that the Attacker has the best while the Defender has the worst is flawed in so many more ways then you seem to think balancing around equal ground is I don't see the point of pointing out its flaws. I have come to the conclussion that you obviously have no interest in balance and are either trolling or simply blind to the fact that the imbalances in question that are present now aren't changing and no amount of testing or "waiting and seeing" will change that. Balance around unequal grounds is the preference to me because this is New Eden. Do you know why the new players get mowed down within a second? Why their little peashooters tickle the older players? Do you even care? It's because somebody somewhere thought that everyone has the same gear. If this was Call of Duty, sure, balance around equal grounds. Battlefield? I don't see why not. But Dust 514? Where my shotgun can sneeze on people and blow them away because I skilled into it? Where my CR can snipe and two burst mediums? Are you serious?
Do you do science? Or computing?
Lets say I have 2 chemical reactions, using the same ingredients in the same ratios of quantity.
But I get different results, how do I find out who is responsible?
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2203
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Posted - 2014.03.17 10:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tweaksz wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Tweaksz wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Tweaksz wrote:
I know that but if CCP has the time to change the damage on rifles then they had enough time to see how said changes would affect all rifles including variants.
Not necessarily when you consider the amount of stuff added its qute easy to see how they may not have had time for full rifle rebalancing. Also we only know of changes to damage values, other in-game mechanics may have been tweaked. Keep Calm, but keep at it, the Plasma Rifle is gimped against the other rifles, yes, but it is still grossly overpowered against the majority of niche weapons, until that is fixed I would say its unlikely they will balance the rifles internally, its just easier. What I ment was instead of moving stuff just for the hell of it they should research what effect the changes would have thoroughly instead and releasing it at a later point in time where they can be sure or slightly comfortable that things won't go awry. No need for them to rebalance completely, if they are nerfing ALL the rifles then what's the point if it's still going to be unbalanced. Sorry misunderstood you there. Well youve got a choice nerf an overpowered set of weapons so that people stop bitching about them for a while, which gives you time to actually completly rebalance them and ALL of the associated mechanics. (Recoil, Mag Size, Reload Time, Zoom Fidelity, TTS, range, damage, ROF) Or you wait 3 months before making any changes, the rifles become more prelevant, player retention drops and people continue to whine making stupid demands that when 100's of people agree seem rather reasonable. All while your tryimg to balance these overpowered weapons, create new ones that aren't overpowered and build more mechanics into the meta of the game. From a developers point of view the first option is the best one, shut up the majority (keep em happy) deal with the fine tuning in piece. I guess you're right, thanks to the exaggerated butthurt of a few hundred twelve year olds we get timely placebos instead of a cure.
What can you do?
I dunno about you, but I rather be given placebos UNTIL there is a cure, instead of waiting in agony for a cure that could never come.
Cheer up, speccing into Lvl 1 of anything don't cost that much, if you like the way the Assault Rifle plays, try the laser or Assault Scrambler.
I personally can't wait to dust of my Mass Driver and Burst Scrambler Pistol again.
Long live the Meta
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2204
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Posted - 2014.03.17 10:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:[
Do you do science? Or computing?
Lets say I have 2 chemical reactions, using the same ingredients in the same ratios of quantity.
But I get different results, how do I find out who is responsible? If you are using the same ingredients, given they are in the same amount, then how do you get different results? In order for that to happen, something different must happen before a different result happens. Is it in the same environment? Do the reaction happen in a different sequence? Do they (the ingredients) change properties over time? How does this even relate to Dust 514? lol...
Becuse same ratios, not exact same quantities.
So 1 reaction might have twice as much of everything. But assuming both reactions happen in the same conditions then one of the chemicals are responsible.
So in order to find the culprit, you chamge 1 and measure results.
Its anology for your argument about balance. You must always assume the gear is equal.
When it comes to balance, every fight takes place between 2 people with he same attributes. The only values that change are on the things that you wish to balance.
So for your rail rifle v plasma rifle scenario, at first you balance damage such that the plasma rifle wins, the range such that RR wins.
If you try to balance for everything this game would never get anywhere. Your manipulation of other variables such as damage profiles, tank type, cover and 3rd party support (which have all also been balanced independently) is part of the meta.
If you know someone uses a scrambler rifle and you keeping using shields, the scrambler isn't overpowered your dum. If however a scrambler beats a plasma at short range when you both have the same health and tank ratio in open flat ground and neither of you are moving, then it is overpowered.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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