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Testing Turbo
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alot of Armor Tankers are going to be in for one hell of a shock
There's been alot of QQ in 1.7 due to RR and CR as armor tankers had gotten used to being v SCR and AR which are weak v Amor and I hate to break this to armor Tankers but .. The SCR and AR are just as OP V shields as RR and CR are v Armor
The 1.8 Damage changes will confirm this theory as there will still be QQ over RR and CR .. I guarantee it
Fact is RR and CR are supposed to tear through armor just as the SCR and AR tear through shields .. the proficiency changes will reinforce this so seriously if there is still QQ from armor tankers after the damage nerfs in 1.8 .. you just simply don't understand balance and want a crutch
Very few people shield tank and the majority dual/armor tank .. I live longer v the RR and CR than the SCR and AR in their optimum range |
Beck Weathers
Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance
802
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shield extenders should be 45 / 60 / 75 for basic advanced and proto
These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.
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RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die
741
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its funny how one year ago , there were similar threads around, except with uprising , scrambler rifles and shields being way out of whack
Running pure shield tanked Caldari 'cuz me a hippy
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Havaru Fox
Golden Empire of EvE
50
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
A LOT!!!! |
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
81
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
My signature says it all-id encourage everyone to click it In 1.8, due to increased TTK and all suits receiving a shield recharge buff, shield values at proto will match up with armor values at proto. However, this does not account for the ludicrous fitting costs and horrible scaling of extenders, which needs to be updated
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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BARDAS
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
804
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Interesting how opinions change over time. When I first started playing this game no one liked Armor and bitched about how terrible it was. Then it got buffed and now people are saying the same thing about shields. I suppose the balance will eventually tip in Shields favor next... since CCP doesn't know how to gently tweak things into balance. Seriously, why does it always have to be extremes? I don't get it... o well. |
DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
4646
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
smh.
You guys are doing it wrong.
Shield tankers expect to just be able to stand and deliver like armor tankers do, but that's not what they're meant for. Shields are meant for fast strafing, and out maneuvering the enemy.
In all honesty I prefer shields since the speed bonus is undeniable in the battlefield. I like shields so much that I try to emulate their speed bonus on my Gallante Assault by using Ferroscale armor.
Shield tanking is in a good place, only enhanced shield extenders need to go from 33 HP to 44.
Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
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Havaru Fox
Golden Empire of EvE
50
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Testing Turbo wrote:
Very few people shield tank and the majority dual/armor tank .. I live longer v the RR and CR than the SCR and AR in their optimum range
It just came to my mind again..
Quote: Role Bonus: +5% damage resistance to splash damage per level.
Caldari Sentinel Bonus:
3% shield resistance to hybrid - blaster weapons per level. 2% shield resistance to laser weapons per level.
Gallente Sentinel Bonus:
3% armor resistance to hybrid - railgun weapons per level. 2% armor resistance to projectile weapons per level.
Minmatar Sentinel Bonus:
3% shield resistance to laser weapons per level. 2% armor resistance to hybrid - blaster weapons per level.
Amarr Sentinel Bonus:
3% armor resistance to projectile weapons per level. 2% shield resistance to hybrid - railgun weapons per level.
and now lauth about what we will see in 1.8
while i have to say that i use my Templar Sentinel BPO with a Railgun (about 500/500) and see myself having a good time. but i dont understand how you can give the Gallente Sentinel a bonus against what counters them and give the caldari one a bonus against shotguns (that 2 and now maybe 3 hit you) and the lil wind making Assault Rifle and the laser weapons (that almost nobody is using.. but maybe in 1.8).
Well, i will play Caldari Commando and Amarr Sentinel in 1.8, because i still see the CR and the RR the best weapons in the game, because you just outrange most people and deal full damage in your "optimal".
i just wonder if the LR will become a thing, but i dont think that it will |
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
83
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:smh.
You guys are doing it wrong.
Shield tankers expect to just be able to stand and deliver like armor tankers do, but that's not what they're meant for. Shields are meant for fast strafing, and out maneuvering the enemy.
In all honesty I prefer shields since the speed bonus is undeniable in the battlefield. I like shields so much that I try to emulate their speed bonus on my Gallante Assault by using Ferroscale armor.
Shield tanking is in a good place, only enhanced shield extenders need to go from 33 HP to 44. you forgot STD being 33 and better fitting capabilities, but for the most part i agree with you
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
1869
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Posted - 2014.03.16 04:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
I like how a year or so ago I chose armour tanking as my personal preference and I was generally considered a fool, now though if I get hatemail for being an armour tanked FOTM follower lol. Even got hatemail not long ago calling me a scrub for armour tanking a shield tanking suit, I was running Gal logi all that game all I could reply with was "sigh".
Shield tanking was way better than armour tanking for ages, now its armour + damage mods in 1.8 it will be dual tanking, till races get bonuses that help their racial tanking style and useful modules for each high and low slots one method will always be better. Hopefully though one day (probably around 2020 sadly) we will see balance and an end to FOTM tanking styles.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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ONE-I-BANDIT
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
65
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Posted - 2014.03.16 04:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dont the Armor have the Advantage? Because of the logi to cont. to repair faster with an core repper than a shield base armor unless the recharge is insanely fast. Wich if its like the tanks im not impressed wich is why im leaning toward the armor heavy and not the shield. Any thought on how fast it could rep. compared to an logi and his core repper?
Proto Logi/Big Bad Tanker/Beginner Heavy
Wait till they get an Load of Me
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Tectonic Fusion
1248
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Posted - 2014.03.16 04:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shields need to have their penalty at 2-3-5 just like the armor penalty, while also having more shield HP.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5759
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Posted - 2014.03.16 04:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:smh.
You guys are doing it wrong.
Shield tankers expect to just be able to stand and deliver like armor tankers do, but that's not what they're meant for. Shields are meant for fast strafing, and out maneuvering the enemy.
In all honesty I prefer shields since the speed bonus is undeniable in the battlefield. I like shields so much that I try to emulate their speed bonus on my Gallante Assault by using Ferroscale armor.
Shield tanking is in a good place, only enhanced shield extenders need to go from 33 HP to 44. Strafing means nothing when your opponent can automatically track you while barely moving the controller.
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7422
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Posted - 2014.03.16 12:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Shields need to have their penalty at 2-3-5 just like the armor penalty, while also having more shield HP. .... You're comparing SPEED to a tiny delay.
4x complex extender on a Caldari scout, you know what you get?
An extra second on depleted delay, from 5 to 6. Normal delay is unaffected.
Quit your bitching, the armor penalty is infintely more harsh than the soft penalty shields have.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7422
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Posted - 2014.03.16 12:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:smh.
You guys are doing it wrong.
Shield tankers expect to just be able to stand and deliver like armor tankers do, but that's not what they're meant for. Shields are meant for fast strafing, and out maneuvering the enemy.
In all honesty I prefer shields since the speed bonus is undeniable in the battlefield. I like shields so much that I try to emulate their speed bonus on my Gallante Assault by using Ferroscale armor.
Shield tanking is in a good place, only enhanced shield extenders need to go from 33 HP to 44. Strafing means nothing when your opponent can automatically track you while barely moving the controller. I can say for a fact that I get hit more inside my armor suit than in my shield suit.
Plates have double the penalty on strafing than what is shown in the info screen.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7422
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Posted - 2014.03.16 12:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
As for the OP, stop trying to be an armor tanker inside a shield suit. Shield suits are NOT designed to go 1v1 with an armor tanker on equal terms. You're supposed to use your speed advantage to gain the advantage.
Flank, get the high ground, whatever it takes, you very quickly take away their advantage in HP. (Which unless it's a Gal Logi, is more slight an you think)
Also, your logic is very broken in terms of the rifles, considering the CR and RR tear apart shields just as much as they do armor. It's mathematically proven that they're OP as ****. AR doesn't even lick their toes, and SCR will have problems chewing through armor come 1.8 because of the proficiency changes and damage mods, so you will see less of it in general.
Overall, you're whining like a little kid because you expect to fulfill inside a shield suit the role of an armor tanker. Be happy, in 1.8 shield suits in general get more regeneration.
Edit: I almost forgot, Gallente Logi is OP, it warps the perception of people about armor tanking.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2082
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Posted - 2014.03.16 13:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Shields need to have their penalty at 2-3-5 just like the armor penalty, while also having more shield HP.
That penalty is negligible they need something that affects them just as bad as the armor penalty affects us.
For the Federation!
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RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die
743
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Posted - 2014.03.16 13:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:As for the OP, stop trying to be an armor tanker inside a shield suit. Shield suits are NOT designed to go 1v1 with an armor tanker on equal terms. You're supposed to use your speed advantage to gain the advantage.
Flank, get the high ground, whatever it takes, you very quickly take away their advantage in HP. (Which unless it's a Gal Logi, is more slight an you think)
Also, your logic is very broken in terms of the rifles, considering the CR and RR tear apart shields just as much as they do armor. It's mathematically proven that they're OP as ****. AR doesn't even lick their toes, and SCR will have problems chewing through armor come 1.8 because of the proficiency changes and damage mods, so you will see less of it in general.
Overall, you're whining like a little kid because you expect to fulfill inside a shield suit the role of an armor tanker. Be happy, in 1.8 shield suits in general get more regeneration.
Edit: I almost forgot, Gallente Logi is OP, it warps the perception of people about armor tanking. Getting slowed down while being hit is quite annoying, and makes operating hit and run suits rather difficult
Running pure shield tanked Caldari 'cuz me a hippy
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2678
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Posted - 2014.03.16 13:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
It's funny how people think all armour suits stack plates.
Fun fact, most shield tankers fit 2-3 plates in their lows, most armour tankers only have 1-2 plates. Why? We need reps.
A shield based suit can get as much armour as a armour tanker, but a armour based suit can never get as much shield as a shield tanker can.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2085
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Posted - 2014.03.16 13:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:It's funny how people think all armour suits stack plates.
Fun fact, most shield tankers fit 2-3 plates in their lows.
A shield based suit can get as much armour as a armour tanker, but a armour based suit can never get as much shield as a shield tanker can.
With less of a speed penalty which makes no sense.
For the Federation!
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Testing Turbo
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.03.16 13:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:As for the OP, stop trying to be an armor tanker inside a shield suit. Shield suits are NOT designed to go 1v1 with an armor tanker on equal terms. You're supposed to use your speed advantage to gain the advantage.
Flank, get the high ground, whatever it takes, you very quickly take away their advantage in HP. (Which unless it's a Gal Logi, is more slight an you think)
Also, your logic is very broken in terms of the rifles, considering the CR and RR tear apart shields just as much as they do armor. It's mathematically proven that they're OP as ****. AR doesn't even lick their toes, and SCR will have problems chewing through armor come 1.8 because of the proficiency changes and damage mods, so you will see less of it in general.
Overall, you're whining like a little kid because you expect to fulfill inside a shield suit the role of an armor tanker. Be happy, in 1.8 shield suits in general get more regeneration.
Edit: I almost forgot, Gallente Logi is OP, it warps the perception of people about armor tanking.
Wrong on so many levels
I use damperners in 2 low slots as well as a enhanced regulator and highs on the cal assault are 3 x complex shield extenders and 1 complex damage mod, I use the suit for hit and run, flank behind/to the side pick a few enemies off and retreat back behind cover, regen reload and repeat ...
Your making assumptions and saying I'm whining .. shields v armor is unbalanced .. regulators are NOT efficient .. rechargers are not efficient, shields and there mods have huge CPU requirements and the cal assault doesn't have the CPU to use them and often result in a cpu booster to fit
I expect Shields to provide a better hit and run bonus than they currently do and with AA speed tanking isn't viable .. I think having a shield delay penalty on them is also stupid .. it's like armor plates having a repair rate penalty .. it directly affects what the suit is supposed to be used for .. speed penalty makes armor tankers slower and means they have to fulfill their role of stand and deliver with high hp but shield extender penaltys make regen slower thus making them have to wait behind cover longer and minimizing their use as hit and run suits.
When you;ve shield tanked for as long as I have the inbalance is clear .. but keep making generalizations pooh poohing balance requests because your ignorant .. thats fine .. you don;t know what your talking about |
Testing Turbo
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.03.16 13:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Tectonic Fusion wrote:Shields need to have their penalty at 2-3-5 just like the armor penalty, while also having more shield HP. That penalty is negligible they need something that affects them just as bad as the armor penalty affects us.
Armor fitting costs are alot lower and you get more HP ... in all honestly shields should have no penalty to compensate for the lower eHP and higher fitting costs .. they added a penatly to shields 6 months too late and made shields worse at a time they were already worse ..
There is a reason people dual Tank and that is due to UP Shields |
Syeven Reed
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS
467
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Posted - 2014.03.16 13:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:It's funny how people think all armour suits stack plates.
Fun fact, most shield tankers fit 2-3 plates in their lows.
A shield based suit can get as much armour as a armour tanker, but a armour based suit can never get as much shield as a shield tanker can. With less of a speed penalty which makes no sense. That makes no sense!
Gÿé Syeven 514
Application for CPM1
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7424
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Posted - 2014.03.16 14:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:Cat Merc wrote:As for the OP, stop trying to be an armor tanker inside a shield suit. Shield suits are NOT designed to go 1v1 with an armor tanker on equal terms. You're supposed to use your speed advantage to gain the advantage.
Flank, get the high ground, whatever it takes, you very quickly take away their advantage in HP. (Which unless it's a Gal Logi, is more slight an you think)
Also, your logic is very broken in terms of the rifles, considering the CR and RR tear apart shields just as much as they do armor. It's mathematically proven that they're OP as ****. AR doesn't even lick their toes, and SCR will have problems chewing through armor come 1.8 because of the proficiency changes and damage mods, so you will see less of it in general.
Overall, you're whining like a little kid because you expect to fulfill inside a shield suit the role of an armor tanker. Be happy, in 1.8 shield suits in general get more regeneration.
Edit: I almost forgot, Gallente Logi is OP, it warps the perception of people about armor tanking. Getting slowed down while being hit is quite annoying, and makes operating hit and run suits rather difficult It is, and I would like it to be removed ASAP.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7424
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Posted - 2014.03.16 14:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Testing Turbo wrote:Cat Merc wrote:As for the OP, stop trying to be an armor tanker inside a shield suit. Shield suits are NOT designed to go 1v1 with an armor tanker on equal terms. You're supposed to use your speed advantage to gain the advantage.
Flank, get the high ground, whatever it takes, you very quickly take away their advantage in HP. (Which unless it's a Gal Logi, is more slight an you think)
Also, your logic is very broken in terms of the rifles, considering the CR and RR tear apart shields just as much as they do armor. It's mathematically proven that they're OP as ****. AR doesn't even lick their toes, and SCR will have problems chewing through armor come 1.8 because of the proficiency changes and damage mods, so you will see less of it in general.
Overall, you're whining like a little kid because you expect to fulfill inside a shield suit the role of an armor tanker. Be happy, in 1.8 shield suits in general get more regeneration.
Edit: I almost forgot, Gallente Logi is OP, it warps the perception of people about armor tanking. Wrong on so many levels I use damperners in 2 low slots as well as a enhanced regulator and highs on the cal assault are 3 x complex shield extenders and 1 complex damage mod, I use the suit for hit and run, flank behind/to the side pick a few enemies off and retreat back behind cover, regen reload and repeat ... Your making assumptions and saying I'm whining .. shields v armor is unbalanced .. regulators are NOT efficient .. rechargers are not efficient, shields and there mods have huge CPU requirements and the cal assault doesn't have the CPU to use them and often result in a cpu booster to fit I expect Shields to provide a better hit and run bonus than they currently do and with AA speed tanking isn't viable .. I think having a shield delay penalty on them is also stupid .. it's like armor plates having a repair rate penalty .. it directly affects what the suit is supposed to be used for .. speed penalty makes armor tankers slower and means they have to fulfill their role of stand and deliver with high hp but shield extender penaltys make regen slower thus making them have to wait behind cover longer and minimizing their use as hit and run suits. When you;ve shield tanked for as long as I have the inbalance is clear .. but keep making generalizations pooh poohing balance requests because your ignorant .. thats fine .. you don;t know what your talking about Right, the guy with both a prototype Gallente Assault, Prototype Caldari Assault, Prototype Gallente Logi and Prototype Minnie Logi has no clue about Shields vs Armor balance.
Get real.
Regulators suck because delays are low as is, I suggested to change their functionallity all together. Rechargers are efficient, one module and you already got double what an armor tanker gets from a single module as far as recharge. Armor tankers need more PG than they can get, and unlike you they can't fit a PG module without gimping themselves, so often we use advanced modules even on prototype suits.
The penalty is also so fricking tiny it's sad that you complain about, on a Caldari scout having 4x complex extenders will add 1 SECOND to the depleted recharge delay. ONE. Besides, it DOES fit your role. You do damage and GTFO before your shields go down, hit and run, not stand and deliever.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7424
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Posted - 2014.03.16 14:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Testing Turbo wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Tectonic Fusion wrote:Shields need to have their penalty at 2-3-5 just like the armor penalty, while also having more shield HP. That penalty is negligible they need something that affects them just as bad as the armor penalty affects us. Armor fitting costs are alot lower and you get more HP ... in all honestly shields should have no penalty to compensate for the lower eHP and higher fitting costs .. they added a penatly to shields 6 months too late and made shields worse at a time they were already worse .. There is a reason people dual Tank and that is due to UP Shields No, people dual tank because it's better than using one tank, it's simple as that.
Using suits, we can figure out that the exchange rate between CPU and PG is 10 to 1. Using this, you can see that shield and armor modules are pretty balanced CPU/PG wise.
And finally, you get built in recharge, that's why you get less HP. Armor tankers need to put on armor repairers to get any decent rep (nanohives have their problems, and they're getting nerfed further in 1.8).
I've been here longer than you, back when armor was underpowered as ****. During that time, I examined armor vs shields balance VERY closely, and I could say with confidence, I know what the **** I'm talking about better than 99.99% of the forums. (The 0.01% is Arkena Wyrnspire, who together with me worked on creating the armor mega thread)
P.S The buff was +20HP on all armor modules, and less speed penalty, that's it.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
743
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Posted - 2014.03.16 14:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:smh.
You guys are doing it wrong.
Shield tankers expect to just be able to stand and deliver like armor tankers do, but that's not what they're meant for. Shields are meant for fast strafing, and out maneuvering the enemy.
In all honesty I prefer shields since the speed bonus is undeniable in the battlefield. I like shields so much that I try to emulate their speed bonus on my Gallante Assault by using Ferroscale armor.
Shield tanking is in a good place, only enhanced shield extenders need to go from 33 HP to 44.
Exactly people on this forum wants evrything to work the same way they are comparing diferent suits and are complaining that certain fits of a different race will beat their fit of choice with the given race instead of using the Dropsuits strenght....
With armor and shields its the same in the "old" days where armor was horrible shield tankers used shield like armor was meant to be sed for upright straight frotal fights. No one used things like flanking and still people want to use shields for direct confrontation.
All you here is speed tanking is dead tanks to better HD and AA, but the only thing thats dead is balerina strafing, bullet dogding suits. Flanking and smart use of speed still works great.
I can't count the kills I get because I suddenl was where the enemy did not expect me to be...
Basic and adv sields need indead a buff and basic plates should get a slight nerf but thats it. Ferroscales and reactice plates need a bigger buf for theri fitting costs... |
Warbot Titan X
Badge of Blood
16
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Posted - 2014.03.16 14:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:smh.
You guys are doing it wrong.
Shield tankers expect to just be able to stand and deliver like armor tankers do, but that's not what they're meant for. Shields are meant for fast strafing, and out maneuvering the enemy.
In all honesty I prefer shields since the speed bonus is undeniable in the battlefield. I like shields so much that I try to emulate their speed bonus on my Gallante Assault by using Ferroscale armor.
Shield tanking is in a good place, only enhanced shield extenders need to go from 33 HP to 44.
I completely agree with this. Especially having the enh shield ext to 44 hp.
Closed Beta Veteran - Badge of Blood
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2679
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Posted - 2014.03.16 14:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: I examined armor vs shields balance VERY closely, and I could say with confidence, I know what the **** I'm talking about better than 99.99% of the forums. (The 0.01% is Arkena Wyrnspire, who together with me worked on creating the armor mega thread)
P.S Also Cody, cause we are best friends and hang out sometimes in Gallente Assault suits
Awww, CatMerc.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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