DUST Search - Even with the bonus, amarr scout always last in race.

Magnus Amadeuss wrote:

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:

Magnus Amadeuss wrote:

The Infected One wrote:

Another thing that can be taken from this exercise is that FINALLY a Minmatar suit outshines SOMETHING in some way.
+1 for the Minmatar!

LOL
Minmatar:
Faster walking
Faster sprinting
Faster strafing
Higher Jumping
Best Hackers
Best damage profile weapons
Easiest fitting weapons
Only effective AoE weapons

yeah but only now are they good at something...

Anyway, this isn't about the minmatar, or the other scouts for that matter. This is about how the amarr scout bonus is entirely horrible. It doesn't differentiate itself from the other scouts. This bonus only attempts (and fails) to bring the amarr scout up to the other scouts' base stats.

1.Negated by auto aim and scanners
2. see 1
3. see 1
4. see 1
5. Yes!!!! I've always wanted to be every other players ***** by hacking for them!!! thank god i can do it now!
6. Every race can use minmitar weapons, generally a gal can use them more effectively than a min (damage mods)
7. Yeah, and the worst fitting suits that have to use cpu/pg mods in the lows to fit a gimped shield tank
8. This is blatantly false

1-4) no, this is still very much an attribute that minmatar are best at. Also, aim assist didn't kill speed tanking as badly as removal. Just because you want to plug your ears and stomp your feet doesn't make FACTS go away.

7) remedied in 1.8, min suits now have the highest CPU, actually way too much on the scout level.

8) Really? Name the other effective AoE weapons other than the mass driver. PLC? LoL, worse than the flaylock. FG? Only really effective with direct hits anymore. Flux grenades? Non-lethal.

Yep, mass drivers and locus grenades, both the only effective AoE weapons, both minmatar.

Anyway none of that matters, the proof is in the math, the amarr scout has a non-bonus.

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Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 493	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:01:00 - [1] - Quote So, I see some people claiming that the stamina and recharge bonus the amarr will have will allow it to eventually overtake and outdistance the other suits. I decided to put this idea to the test, and crunched some numbers into a graph. Here is the result. This chart assumes lvl 5 amarr scout w/ 25% bonus to stamina and recharge, and it assume lvl 5 biotics on all suits. As you can see, the only time when the amarr scout will cover more ground than the gallente/caldari is between 24 and 38 seconds. The rest of the 1 minute footrace the amarr scout spends trailing. There is no point in time when the amarr scout can catch up to or get ahead of the minmatar scout, ever. So I ask you, what is the point of this bonus? While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2223	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:10:00 - [2] - Quote Now do the experiments with stamina/sprint mods.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1317	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:11:00 - [3] - Quote not with a complex cardiac regulator it isnt... suddenly its in first place. math, how does it work
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 494	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:23:00 - [4] - Quote Are you two serious? So, if I put those mods on a amarr and gallente scout, there will be ZERO difference in the lines. The only difference would be that the gallente scout would have a free complex dampner, a free enhanced armor repper, and a free standard range extender. Now if you two cannot understand why throwing the same mods on these two suits would make zero difference, you need to go back to remedial math. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 494	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:26:00 - [5] - Quote Added another chart to show the difference between amarr scout lvl 0 and amarr scout lvl 5 with that "bonus". See those gaps? that is the only time when the amarr bonus comes in handy. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 305	Posted - 2014.03.14 23:42:00 - [6] - Quote What you are showing is a 1 minute foot race, sprinting the whole time except for recharge time? Because, that's why.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 502	Posted - 2014.03.14 23:45:00 - [7] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: What you are showing is a 1 minute foot race, sprinting the whole time except for recharge time? Yes, I can extrapolate out indefinitely if 1 minute doesn't do it for you. Basically it is to show that under even the most ideal conditions for that particular bonus, it is still laughable at best, and insulting at worst. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2044	Posted - 2014.03.14 23:48:00 - [8] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: So, I see some people claiming that the stamina and recharge bonus the amarr will have will allow it to eventually overtake and outdistance the other suits. I decided to put this idea to the test, and crunched some numbers into a graph. Here is the result. This chart assumes lvl 5 amarr scout w/ 25% bonus to stamina and recharge, and it assume lvl 5 biotics on all suits. As you can see, the only time when the amarr scout will cover more ground than the gallente/caldari is between 24 and 38 seconds. The rest of the 1 minute footrace the amarr scout spends trailing. There is no point in time when the amarr scout can catch up to or get ahead of the minmatar scout, ever. So I ask you, what is the point of this bonus? Amarr scout lvl 5 vs lvl 0 come on! You know a lot of these "bonuses" were just half baked due to lack of imagination. Look at the Cal Assault and Gal Assault, yours truly the Amarr scout, the Minmatar bonus (on the suit type), the crazy stamina regen on Minmatar suits, the sub-optimal Gallente repair, and finally the fact CCP still tries to make the Gallente suit a weak copy of a Caldari suit +ù% $/++&+ù% For the Federation!
The Infected One Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1045	Posted - 2014.03.14 23:49:00 - [9] - Quote Another thing that can be taken from this exercise is that FINALLY a Minmatar suit outshines SOMETHING in some way. +1 for the Minmatar! I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? --. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 11083	Posted - 2014.03.14 23:58:00 - [10] - Quote Random suggestion - give it a headshot bonus. ScP power! You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.

Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 503	Posted - 2014.03.15 00:01:00 - [11] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Another thing that can be taken from this exercise is that FINALLY a Minmatar suit outshines SOMETHING in some way. +1 for the Minmatar! LOL Minmatar: Faster walking Faster sprinting Faster strafing Higher Jumping Best Hackers Best damage profile weapons Easiest fitting weapons Only effective AoE weapons yeah but only now are they good at something... Anyway, this isn't about the minmatar, or the other scouts for that matter. This is about how the amarr scout bonus is entirely horrible. It doesn't differentiate itself from the other scouts. This bonus only attempts (and fails) to bring the amarr scout up to the other scouts' base stats. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Sgt Buttscratch Condotta Rouvenor 2000	Posted - 2014.03.15 00:10:00 - [12] - Quote Amarr suck... I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 509	Posted - 2014.03.15 01:22:00 - [13] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Amarr suck... I wish this wasn't the case. I don't want amarr to be OP, just competitive. Right now, our medium suits are both missing slots, the light suit is completely worthless, the commando has a bonus that is worthless (reload speed... really??), there are 3 amarr weapons and 2 of which are horrible without a maxed out amarr assault suit, and idk it just feels like amarr is seriously being neglected. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 293	Posted - 2014.03.15 01:44:00 - [14] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Another thing that can be taken from this exercise is that FINALLY a Minmatar suit outshines SOMETHING in some way. +1 for the Minmatar! I actually thought this graph illustrates how pathetic the minmatar speed bonus actually is. After a full minute they are only 20-25 meters farther along than the others? Pathetic. At the OP's point though, and this is just my opinion based off of his graph. I think his graph perfectly illustrates the real problem, those lines are just too darn close together, and far too similar. By my math there is a ~5% difference in distance traveled after a minute between the fastest and the slowest, and at no point do they look to be farther apart than ~10%. Why have different speeds and different stamina values if they just all come out within a couple percent of each other. My only conclusion is that picking scouts based on speed is ultimately completely pointless, and thats a damn shame. I'm ok with the end of the foot race being close, but I would love to see more diversity between the start and the end. EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 511	Posted - 2014.03.15 01:50:00 - [15] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: The Infected One wrote: Another thing that can be taken from this exercise is that FINALLY a Minmatar suit outshines SOMETHING in some way. +1 for the Minmatar! I actually thought this graph illustrates how pathetic the minmatar speed bonus actually is. After a full minute they are only 20-25 meters farther along than the others? Pathetic. At the OP's point though, and this is just my opinion based off of his graph. I think his graph perfectly illustrates the real problem, those lines are just too darn close together, and far too similar. By my math there is a ~5% difference in distance traveled after a minute between the fastest and the slowest, and at no point do they look to be farther apart than ~10%. Why have different speeds and different stamina values if they just all come out within a couple percent of each other. My only conclusion is that picking scouts based on speed is ultimately completely pointless, and thats a damn shame. I'm ok with the end of the foot race being close, but I would love to see more diversity between the start and the end. Actually the reason the graph is aslong as it is is to show endurance. If you wanted to see how the minmatar speed bonus is, try out the minmatar assault versus the minmatar scout. If you can not see a MASSIVE speed difference there, IDK what to say. (the minnie assault and scout are closer than the minnie scout and the amarr scout.) While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4634	Posted - 2014.03.15 02:32:00 - [16] - Quote You forget the fact that paths are not usually linear. That is to say that if I'm jumping over two or three walls than I will still be able to with the Amarr Scout but will.have to walk more often with the Gallante. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 511	Posted - 2014.03.15 02:35:00 - [17] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: You forget the fact that paths are not usually linear. That is to say that if I'm jumping over two or three walls than I will still be able to with the Amarr Scout but will.have to walk more often with the Gallante. Why is there so much wrong information out there. Jumping is not a linear action. It takes a percentage of your stamina, not a set amount. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 484	Posted - 2014.03.15 02:44:00 - [18] - Quote Congrats, now you know how Cal assaults feel. 32db Mad Bomber.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 517	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:36:00 - [19] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Congrats, now you know how Cal assaults feel. Ok, that has nothing to do with this topic, it doesn't add anything to this topic, and it doesn't add/detract from the points raised. Thanks for the bump though. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 54	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:39:00 - [20] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Are you two serious? So, if I put those mods on a amarr and gallente scout, there will be ZERO difference in the lines. The only difference would be that the gallente scout would have a free complex dampner, a free enhanced armor repper, and a free standard range extender. Now if you two cannot understand why throwing the same mods on these two suits would make zero difference, you need to go back to remedial math. actually it would make a difference, as the modified base is different between suits, therefore an equal modifier will not necessarily give equal results. Please check your facts before insulting someone. Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 54	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:43:00 - [21] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: The Infected One wrote: Another thing that can be taken from this exercise is that FINALLY a Minmatar suit outshines SOMETHING in some way. +1 for the Minmatar! LOL Minmatar: Faster walking Faster sprinting Faster strafing Higher Jumping Best Hackers Best damage profile weapons Easiest fitting weapons Only effective AoE weapons yeah but only now are they good at something... Anyway, this isn't about the minmatar, or the other scouts for that matter. This is about how the amarr scout bonus is entirely horrible. It doesn't differentiate itself from the other scouts. This bonus only attempts (and fails) to bring the amarr scout up to the other scouts' base stats. 1.Negated by auto aim and scanners 2. see 1 3. see 1 4. see 1 5. Yes!!!! I've always wanted to be every other players ***** by hacking for them!!! thank god i can do it now! 6. Every race can use minmitar weapons, generally a gal can use them more effectively than a min (damage mods) 7. Yeah, and the worst fitting suits that have to use cpu/pg mods in the lows to fit a gimped shield tank 8. This is blatantly false Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 283	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:44:00 - [22] - Quote nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh according to the lore the amarr only use scout suit for ceremonies and military parade (n+ëGèÖGÇ+GèÖ)n+ën+PpÇÄG£º~TEARS~G£ºpÇÅ 1.8 Laser rifle buff faq will be back to melt all ur sorry ass the good ol chromosomes days.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 523	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:58:00 - [23] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Are you two serious? So, if I put those mods on a amarr and gallente scout, there will be ZERO difference in the lines. The only difference would be that the gallente scout would have a free complex dampner, a free enhanced armor repper, and a free standard range extender. Now if you two cannot understand why throwing the same mods on these two suits would make zero difference, you need to go back to remedial math. actually it would make a difference, as the modified base is different between suits, therefore an equal modifier will not necessarily give equal results. Please check your facts before insulting someone. So you can't read either? HEre is what I wrote, the part you critiqued is in bold me wrote: Are you two serious? So, if I put those mods on a amarr and gallente scout, there will be ZERO difference in the lines. The only difference would be that the gallente scout would have a free complex dampener, a free enhanced armor repper, and a free standard range extender. Now if you two cannot understand why throwing the same mods on these two suits would make zero difference, you need to go back to remedial math. So, the LINES would be the same, meaning that the gallente would remain in the same position in that graph relative to the amarr, therefor, it would make no difference in the lines. Sure the numbers at the bottom and the sides may differ slightly, but the graph will remain intact. EDIT: To clarify, with the same mods installed on both suits, they will both increase the same relative to each other, even if the absolute numbers get larger. In remedial math they taught us, in pre-algebra i think, that you can factor a term out if it is common between parts of an equation. The mods would be common between the suits, therefor we can factor them out. Same with skills. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 523	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:03:00 - [24] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: The Infected One wrote: Another thing that can be taken from this exercise is that FINALLY a Minmatar suit outshines SOMETHING in some way. +1 for the Minmatar! LOL Minmatar: Faster walking Faster sprinting Faster strafing Higher Jumping Best Hackers Best damage profile weapons Easiest fitting weapons Only effective AoE weapons yeah but only now are they good at something... Anyway, this isn't about the minmatar, or the other scouts for that matter. This is about how the amarr scout bonus is entirely horrible. It doesn't differentiate itself from the other scouts. This bonus only attempts (and fails) to bring the amarr scout up to the other scouts' base stats. 1.Negated by auto aim and scanners 2. see 1 3. see 1 4. see 1 5. Yes!!!! I've always wanted to be every other players ***** by hacking for them!!! thank god i can do it now! 6. Every race can use minmitar weapons, generally a gal can use them more effectively than a min (damage mods) 7. Yeah, and the worst fitting suits that have to use cpu/pg mods in the lows to fit a gimped shield tank 8. This is blatantly false 1-4) no, this is still very much an attribute that minmatar are best at. Also, aim assist didn't kill speed tanking as badly as removal. Just because you want to plug your ears and stomp your feet doesn't make FACTS go away. 7) remedied in 1.8, min suits now have the highest CPU, actually way too much on the scout level. 8) Really? Name the other effective AoE weapons other than the mass driver. PLC? LoL, worse than the flaylock. FG? Only really effective with direct hits anymore. Flux grenades? Non-lethal. Yep, mass drivers and locus grenades, both the only effective AoE weapons, both minmatar. Anyway none of that matters, the proof is in the math, the amarr scout has a non-bonus. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 56	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:03:00 - [25] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Are you two serious? So, if I put those mods on a amarr and gallente scout, there will be ZERO difference in the lines. The only difference would be that the gallente scout would have a free complex dampner, a free enhanced armor repper, and a free standard range extender. Now if you two cannot understand why throwing the same mods on these two suits would make zero difference, you need to go back to remedial math. actually it would make a difference, as the modified base is different between suits, therefore an equal modifier will not necessarily give equal results. Please check your facts before insulting someone. So you can't read either? HEre is what I wrote, the part you critiqued is in bold me wrote: Are you two serious? So, if I put those mods on a amarr and gallente scout, there will be ZERO difference in the lines. The only difference would be that the gallente scout would have a free complex dampner, a free enhanced armor repper, and a free standard range extender. Now if you two cannot understand why throwing the same mods on these two suits would make zero difference, you need to go back to remedial math. So, the LINES would be the same, meaning that the gallente would remain in the same position in that graph relative to the amarr, therefor, it would make no difference in the lines. Sure the numbers at the bottom and the sides may differ slightly, but the graph will remain intact. Well, if thats the case, then your graph is misrepresenting the actual data at hand Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 56	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:08:00 - [26] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: The Infected One wrote: Another thing that can be taken from this exercise is that FINALLY a Minmatar suit outshines SOMETHING in some way. +1 for the Minmatar! LOL Minmatar: Faster walking Faster sprinting Faster strafing Higher Jumping Best Hackers Best damage profile weapons Easiest fitting weapons Only effective AoE weapons yeah but only now are they good at something... Anyway, this isn't about the minmatar, or the other scouts for that matter. This is about how the amarr scout bonus is entirely horrible. It doesn't differentiate itself from the other scouts. This bonus only attempts (and fails) to bring the amarr scout up to the other scouts' base stats. 1.Negated by auto aim and scanners 2. see 1 3. see 1 4. see 1 5. Yes!!!! I've always wanted to be every other players ***** by hacking for them!!! thank god i can do it now! 6. Every race can use minmitar weapons, generally a gal can use them more effectively than a min (damage mods) 7. Yeah, and the worst fitting suits that have to use cpu/pg mods in the lows to fit a gimped shield tank 8. This is blatantly false 1-4) no, this is still very much an attribute that minmatar are best at. Also, aim assist didn't kill speed tanking as badly as removal. Just because you want to plug your ears and stomp your feet doesn't make FACTS go away. 7) remedied in 1.8, min suits now have the highest CPU, actually way too much on the scout level. 8) Really? Name the other effective AoE weapons other than the mass driver. PLC? LoL, worse than the flaylock. FG? Only really effective with direct hits anymore. Flux grenades? Non-lethal. Yep, mass drivers and locus grenades, both the only effective AoE weapons, both minmatar. Anyway none of that matters, the proof is in the math, the amarr scout has a non-bonus. bro do you even speed tank? you didn't respond to 5 or 6 yeah, the cpu buff makes no sense at all, we only need Pg for biotics and shield extenders, our CPU was fine on all except the assault, but we still have to have a Pg mod equipped because shield extenders cost way too much Pg (click sig for more) you simply said that they make the only AoE weapons, which is false. You just named some right there, but forgot missiles and rail guns. Also, all AoE weapons are gimped right now. The only thing the MD has going for it is stun lock Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 284	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:14:00 - [27] - Quote according to eve lore amarr imperial army use the amarr scout suit generally for target practice (n+ëGèÖGÇ+GèÖ)n+ën+PpÇÄG£º~TEARS~G£ºpÇÅ 1.8 Laser rifle buff faq will be back to melt all ur sorry ass the good ol chromosomes days.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 56	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:18:00 - [28] - Quote Faquira Bleuetta wrote: according to eve lore amarr imperial army use the amarr scout suit generally for target practice thats what i plan on using them for Most people are gonna use them as a light assault though Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
AP Grasshopper Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 203	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:24:00 - [29] - Quote Im pretty sure the red mod would affect minmatar and amarr suits differently as they have different stamina level and regen rates.
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 284	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:28:00 - [30] - Quote AP Grasshopper wrote: Im pretty sure the red mod would affect minmatar and amarr suits differently as they have different stamina level and regen rates. ill give u 100 mlillon if u spend sp to proto amarr scout (n+ëGèÖGÇ+GèÖ)n+ën+PpÇÄG£º~TEARS~G£ºpÇÅ 1.8 Laser rifle buff faq will be back to melt all ur sorry ass the good ol chromosomes days.



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