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Should Conventional Rifles Be Prevalent?

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5702	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:16:00 - [1] - Quote Just wanted to gather everyone's opinion. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2645	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:20:00 - [2] - Quote Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 227	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:20:00 - [3] - Quote My commando AV suit is better than a standard infantry soldier Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Yan Darn Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 327	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:39:00 - [4] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 ^ Well that was pretty much what I was going to say... (<-------- shotgun/sidearm scout) The Ghost of Bravo
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2666	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:39:00 - [5] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: My commando AV suit is better than a standard infantry soldier At what? Dying? All jokes aside. That is a role specific suit, it's meant to provide heavy hitter that can take a punch. Kind of the yin to the sentinel'a yang. Kind of a Omni soldier, but with the drawback of being slow and not able to modifie the suit as much as other suits. Not to mention, the STD commando gets good base stats but is pretty barebones. You need a advanced or even Proto just to get a good set of mods on it, so it can get rather expensive. Anywhoo, yeah you don't send troops in with only granade launchers, you give em standard issue rifles. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Leonid Tybalt Expert Intervention Caldari State 317	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:49:00 - [6] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 Dust mercs don't operate as a conventional army though. A team of clones in Dust operates more like a small taskforce, and it's not unusual for such units to have specialized weaponry specifically suited for the mission at hand. You can't have an "army" with only 16 players.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2650	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:53:00 - [7] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 Dust mercs don't operate as a conventional army though. A team of clones in Dust operates more like a small taskforce, and it's not unusual for such units to have specialized weaponry specifically suited for the mission at hand. You can't have an "army" with only 16 players. Find me one example of a small military task force all using specialized weapons and no general purpose weapon and Ill concede your point I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5702	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:56:00 - [8] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 Dust mercs don't operate as a conventional army though. A team of clones in Dust operates more like a small taskforce, and it's not unusual for such units to have specialized weaponry specifically suited for the mission at hand. You can't have an "army" with only 16 players. Find me one example of a small military task force all using specialized weapons and no general purpose weapon and Ill concede your point Find one example of a small military task force that operates under the exact same battlefield conditions as Cloned Soldiers and you might actually have a point. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12247	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:58:00 - [9] - Quote I wish I knew what the AR was trying to be aside from bad Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2651	Posted - 2014.03.14 19:00:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 Dust mercs don't operate as a conventional army though. A team of clones in Dust operates more like a small taskforce, and it's not unusual for such units to have specialized weaponry specifically suited for the mission at hand. You can't have an "army" with only 16 players. Find me one example of a small military task force all using specialized weapons and no general purpose weapon and Ill concede your point Find one example of a small military task force that operates under the exact same battlefield conditions as Cloned Soldiers and you might actually have a point. Your argument is a fallacy Whats that thing you like to type when you think youve made a point Face I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.

Nosid Katona HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 126	Posted - 2014.03.14 19:03:00 - [11] - Quote In 50-75% of situations yes. (pulling numbers out of my *** here.) however when a rifleman meets a niche weapon in its niche it should lose unless the niche weapon user is inept. Alot of people in DUST however don't agree, they think the above should be the case while vise versa shouldn't. Sorry to pop said people's bubble but when a niche weapon meets a rifle user outside of its niche it needs to be at just as much of a disadvantage, otherwise how can you justify them being strong in a niche? You sacrifice overall versatility to gain an advantage in a certain situation. Vae Victis Valor Vet, R.I.P MAG
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 370	Posted - 2014.03.14 19:43:00 - [12] - Quote They need to serve an all-purpose role. The important thing is perhaps a corollary of the jack-of-all-trades concept: that there are no conditions under which the standard rifle is the best weapon. Meaning that in any circumstance in which the rifle user might find himself, there's another weapon that's better. But there's also a second corollary: for every niche weapon, there is a condition under which it is weaker than the standard rifle. So the HMG dominates the standard rifle within a certain range, but outside that range the standard rifle handily kills the HMG. The mass driver dominates the standard rifle if the operator is above the target. Et cetera. Essentially the only way this works is to give the rifles more or less the same damage over time and range profile with some differences in their look, feel, and options, and very slight differences in how well they perform at various ranges. Then use the rifles as a baseline for all the niche weapons. This is why they will be the "standard" weapons. Niche users will find their niches and dominate them, but without a prevalent standard there is no real niche. And let's clarify what we mean by "prevalent"--I mean a plurality, i.e., there are more rifle users than any other type of weapon, not that there are 80% rifle users. You really only need 30-40% of players on the field to use rifles for them to be clearly prevalent, so long as there's not one single other weapon filling most of that remaining 60-70%. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say a good balance would probably be somewhere around 40% rifles, 60% other (including vehicles). That comes to 6-7 rifles per 16-player team. Consider a team with 7 rifles, two heavies, two area denial weapons (MD/PLC), two scouts (shotgun, knife, SMG, or sniper), two vehicles, and one other specialist (AV, vehicle turret, installation turret, remote explosives, non-violent logi, etc.). Does that make sense? The Tank Balancing Factor No One Is Discussing
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1744	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:10:00 - [13] - Quote Look at this Atiim guy. Always gathering information and having discussions. That's what we have CPMs for.... WAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT A MINNNNUUUUUUTTEE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Atiim for Atiim. Fck Atiim being CPM, because CPM is kool-aid dishing chuckle-heads that can't cut in a game so they try to seize power other ways. I ain't got time for dat sht!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8236	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:14:00 - [14] - Quote Logically speaking if one kind of main combat rifle, which also logically would be designed to be durable, adaptable, and modifiable, is not prevalent in a nations armed forces another equally appropriate rifle will find its way into circulation. I can't in good conscience argue against the modern assault rifle being the prevalent weapon because it simply is the best option and if there wasn't one in my army.....I would push for one. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Rusty Shallows 1116	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:22:00 - [15] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: snip Buff not nerfs 2014 Uprising 1.0 was harsher. The douchebag nerfing of 2013 was worse. A great many of us asked for something to be done about Time-To-Kill and Uprising 1.8 is it. The Dev's are only year late with the lessons of Chromosome and every game build before that. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3480	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:23:00 - [16] - Quote Yes but niche weapons really need to be mos def. superior at their niche over rifles. I mean like an advantage that is noticeable. Kind of like sniper rifles and shotguns, they have a noticeable superiority at their niche ranges etc... 68 inches above sea level...
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1548	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:36:00 - [17] - Quote Atiim wrote: Just wanted to gather everyone's opinion. Hmm, does the term basic infantry rifleman mean anything to you? Every Marine a rifleman. Yes, the rifle has always been the default starting point for any army. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1548	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:42:00 - [18] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Atiim wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 Dust mercs don't operate as a conventional army though. A team of clones in Dust operates more like a small taskforce, and it's not unusual for such units to have specialized weaponry specifically suited for the mission at hand. You can't have an "army" with only 16 players. Find me one example of a small military task force all using specialized weapons and no general purpose weapon and Ill concede your point Find one example of a small military task force that operates under the exact same battlefield conditions as Cloned Soldiers and you might actually have a point. Your argument is a fallacy Whats that thing you like to type when you think youve made a point Face Combat video games exist the way they do because they take cues from actual military ideas. That's the whole point, to reference familiar forms of combat. To diverge from that makes it something else entirely. What would that look like then? I don't know, Angry Birds is a good example of something else entirely. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 443	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:15:00 - [19] - Quote Rifle like weapon where is smalest training needed in armz measures is really the backbone, how someone told before. Ant thats a reason why it is on right place. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator/Logician BHD since MAG
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 454	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:34:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Logically speaking if one kind of main combat rifle, which also logically would be designed to be durable, adaptable, and modifiable, is not prevalent in a nations armed forces another equally appropriate rifle will find its way into circulation. I can't in good conscience argue against the modern assault rifle being the prevalent weapon because it simply is the best option and if there wasn't one in my army.....I would push for one. Here you're confusing best with cheapest. Assault/combat rifles are prevalent in the world's armed forces because they are the cheapest mass produced weapon with the necessary performance. If small man portable FFAR rocket pods were cheapest to effectively field en mass, they'd most likely be the main weapon carried by troops instead. So when it comes to equipping military forces, it's always at the lowest most cost efficient levels. So once again, don't confuse best with cheapest. I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8241	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:37:00 - [21] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logically speaking if one kind of main combat rifle, which also logically would be designed to be durable, adaptable, and modifiable, is not prevalent in a nations armed forces another equally appropriate rifle will find its way into circulation. I can't in good conscience argue against the modern assault rifle being the prevalent weapon because it simply is the best option and if there wasn't one in my army.....I would push for one. Here you're confusing best with cheapest. Assault/combat rifles are prevalent in the world's armed forces because they are the cheapest mass produced weapon with the necessary performance. If small man portable FFAR rocket pods were cheapest to effectively field en mass, they'd most likely be the main weapon carried by troops instead. So when it comes to equipping military forces, it's always at the lowest most cost efficient levels. So once again, don't confuse best with cheapest. Do you really believe that to be the case..... how controllable would that be in the hands of armed forces, how adaptable and durable, and dependable would those be over a conventional rifle. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 807	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:56:00 - [22] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logically speaking if one kind of main combat rifle, which also logically would be designed to be durable, adaptable, and modifiable, is not prevalent in a nations armed forces another equally appropriate rifle will find its way into circulation. I can't in good conscience argue against the modern assault rifle being the prevalent weapon because it simply is the best option and if there wasn't one in my army.....I would push for one. Here you're confusing best with cheapest. Assault/combat rifles are prevalent in the world's armed forces because they are the cheapest mass produced weapon with the necessary performance. If small man portable FFAR rocket pods were cheapest to effectively field en mass, they'd most likely be the main weapon carried by troops instead. So when it comes to equipping military forces, it's always at the lowest most cost efficient levels. So once again, don't confuse best with cheapest. Respectfully - you are quite incorrect. The modern battle rifles (and military systems period) that populate most of the higher technology enabled militaries use the "Best Value" model. Basically, it prevents the lowest bidder from securing the contract and delivering bare bones capability at the cost of effectiveness and sustainment of the equipment. For example, with the current HK416 that we use or the M4 series the base rifle doesn't cost as much as the attachements and equipment that come with your kit. The rifle itself is a quality platform but the modularity and breadth of configuring options is what makes it a valued tool. Also, the big difference in the comparision to New Eden and todays weapons is the simple fact that there are no technologically viable alternatives for rifle sized weapon systems other than the standared enclosed cartridge gunpowder propelled projectile. The point of racial tech trees is that the four major races had divergent and distinct tech innovations that govern everything from ship design and function all the way down to individual Soldier level technology (suits, modules, weapons) and ground tactics built arournd or at least enabled by their proprietary tech. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1552	Posted - 2014.03.15 00:24:00 - [23] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logically speaking if one kind of main combat rifle, which also logically would be designed to be durable, adaptable, and modifiable, is not prevalent in a nations armed forces another equally appropriate rifle will find its way into circulation. I can't in good conscience argue against the modern assault rifle being the prevalent weapon because it simply is the best option and if there wasn't one in my army.....I would push for one. Here you're confusing best with cheapest. Assault/combat rifles are prevalent in the world's armed forces because they are the cheapest mass produced weapon with the necessary performance. If small man portable FFAR rocket pods were cheapest to effectively field en mass, they'd most likely be the main weapon carried by troops instead. So when it comes to equipping military forces, it's always at the lowest most cost efficient levels. So once again, don't confuse best with cheapest. Well, I don't know about that. I feel safer with a gun. More portable too. I went infantry rifleman in RL because I don't trust machinery more complex than a rifle when it comes to my own body. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8245	Posted - 2014.03.15 00:28:00 - [24] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logically speaking if one kind of main combat rifle, which also logically would be designed to be durable, adaptable, and modifiable, is not prevalent in a nations armed forces another equally appropriate rifle will find its way into circulation. I can't in good conscience argue against the modern assault rifle being the prevalent weapon because it simply is the best option and if there wasn't one in my army.....I would push for one. Here you're confusing best with cheapest. Assault/combat rifles are prevalent in the world's armed forces because they are the cheapest mass produced weapon with the necessary performance. If small man portable FFAR rocket pods were cheapest to effectively field en mass, they'd most likely be the main weapon carried by troops instead. So when it comes to equipping military forces, it's always at the lowest most cost efficient levels. So once again, don't confuse best with cheapest. Well, I don't know about that. I feel safer with a gun. More portable too. I went infantry rifleman in RL because I don't trust machinery more complex than a rifle when it comes to my own body. My point exactly. Something reliable, adaptable, and compact that will operate when and where you need it to. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5706	Posted - 2014.03.15 00:47:00 - [25] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Your argument is a fallacy Whats that thing you like to type when you think youve made a point Face Fair enough. I kinda got carried away and forgot that the discussion was about prevalence instead of power. It's -HAND by the way. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Scheneighnay McBob Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4359	Posted - 2014.03.15 01:09:00 - [26] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 We need both buffs and nerfs. Remember we want longer TTK. I am your scan error.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5706	Posted - 2014.03.15 01:33:00 - [27] - Quote 8213 wrote: Look at this Atiim guy. Always gathering information and having discussions. That's what we have CPMs for.... WAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT A MINNNNUUUUUUTTEE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Atiim for Atiim. Fck Atiim being CPM, because CPM is kool-aid dishing chuckle-heads that can't cut in a game so they try to seize power other ways. Really? The CPMs having been working very hard trying to push our ideas and concerns out to the ever-so stubborn CCP. I understand that CCP may not always make the right decisions, but that is no reason to say that the CPM is not doing their jobs. Keep in mind, they are only representatives, and CCP has the final say in everything. Furthermore, in DUST 514's current state it is literally impossible to gain significant power simply because that "power" has no effect on the game for the majority of players. ISK Payout from Instant Battles remain the same Item Stock from the Marketplace is infinite No Player to Player market; meaning no economic power due to the lack of an actual economy And as I said before, the CPM has no power over anything. They are only representatives who can relay our ideas, problems, and concerns to CCP, which once again has the final say in everything.* Need some recent examples of how the CPM is helpful? If it weren't for the CPM, there would be no respec at all. CCP would have released all of the remaining dropsuits, and linked their ever so classic video to the playerbase when they asked why. If it weren't for IWS, Scouts & Light Frames would have their sidearms taken away, which would effectively kill the Nova Knife Scout users. If you'd like to discuss things with the CPM and have your information gathered, then by all means feel free to visit The Council's Chamber. If you aren't willing to do so (which you have not before, as not a single one of your posts are in that section of the forums), please stop spewing your uneducated opinion about how the CPM is useless -HAND AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 484	Posted - 2014.03.15 01:43:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Yes for the simple fact that an all purpose weapon becomes the back bone of any army The only time a problem arises is when niche weapons drastically under perform in their niche IE sniper rifles having no significant head shot bonus, nova knives having no back stab bonus and so on Buff not nerfs 2014 Dust mercs don't operate as a conventional army though. A team of clones in Dust operates more like a small taskforce, and it's not unusual for such units to have specialized weaponry specifically suited for the mission at hand. You can't have an "army" with only 16 players. Find me one example of a small military task force all using specialized weapons and no general purpose weapon and Ill concede your point Find one example of a small military task force that operates under the exact same battlefield conditions as Cloned Soldiers and you might actually have a point. If either side of a debate is invalid, the basis for the debate is invalid, but you guys are welcomed to continue arguing your opinions on how the weapons distribution should be for an imaginary team. 32db Mad Bomber.
Altina McAlterson Pure Innocence. EoN. 929	Posted - 2014.03.15 02:16:00 - [29] - Quote Atiim wrote: 8213 wrote: Look at this Atiim guy. Always gathering information and having discussions. That's what we have CPMs for.... WAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT A MINNNNUUUUUUTTEE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Atiim for Atiim. Fck Atiim being CPM, because CPM is kool-aid dishing chuckle-heads that can't cut in a game so they try to seize power other ways. Really? The CPMs having been working very hard trying to push our ideas and concerns out to the ever-so stubborn CCP. I understand that CCP may not always make the right decisions, but that is no reason to say that the CPM is not doing their jobs. Keep in mind, they are only representatives, and CCP has the final say in everything. Furthermore, in DUST 514's current state it is literally impossible to gain significant power simply because that "power" has no effect on the game for the majority of players. ISK Payout from Instant Battles remain the same Item Stock from the Marketplace is infinite No Player to Player market; meaning no economic power due to the lack of an actual economy And as I said before, the CPM has no power over anything. They are only representatives who can relay our ideas, problems, and concerns to CCP, which once again has the final say in everything.* Need some recent examples of how the CPM is helpful? If it weren't for the CPM, there would be no respec at all. CCP would have released all of the remaining dropsuits, and linked their ever so classic video to the playerbase when they asked why. If it weren't for IWS, Scouts & Light Frames would have their sidearms taken away, which would effectively kill the Nova Knife Scout users. If you'd like to discuss things with the CPM and have your information gathered, then by all means feel free to visit The Council's Chamber. If you aren't willing to do so (which you have not before, as not a single one of your posts are in that section of the forums), please stop spewing your uneducated opinion about how the CPM is useless -HAND I'd have to disagree, Atiim. It's obvious that because whatever issue that particular player thinks is the most important has not been addressed then the so-called "representatives" of the players have not been doing their job. Because as we all know what is important and beneficial for one person is important and beneficial for all people. And because since all issues exist in an individual microcosm completely separate from each other true progress can only be made by immediately addressing every issue individually as they arise. So it is obvious that because a single thing goes unresolved then in fact nothing could have been done to fix anything or everything would be fixed. That my friend is sound logic grounded in reality and validated each person's innate and intuitive expertise at whatever subject is currently at hand. I dare you to refute my statement without causing me to become increasing more irrational and incoherent. I assure it that it cannot be done. Now I say good day to you, sir. PS. In response to your actual question I think the answer is no. They should not. In real life (which is sometimes relevant, usually not) they have a "standard issue" for a myriad of reasons. And none of those reasons mean a damn thing in this situation. It's not the standard rifle in particular I'm talking about either as the battlefield really should not be dominated by any particular weapon. Of course some will be more popular than others and it could even vary from map to map but to have a single weapon accounting for wildly disproportionate numbers of kills indicates an issue with balance and diversity. AR514 was ok for a while because I had just switched to AR but it got boring real quick. Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 454	Posted - 2014.03.16 02:29:00 - [30] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logically speaking if one kind of main combat rifle, which also logically would be designed to be durable, adaptable, and modifiable, is not prevalent in a nations armed forces another equally appropriate rifle will find its way into circulation. I can't in good conscience argue against the modern assault rifle being the prevalent weapon because it simply is the best option and if there wasn't one in my army.....I would push for one. Here you're confusing best with cheapest. Assault/combat rifles are prevalent in the world's armed forces because they are the cheapest mass produced weapon with the necessary performance. If small man portable FFAR rocket pods were cheapest to effectively field en mass, they'd most likely be the main weapon carried by troops instead. So when it comes to equipping military forces, it's always at the lowest most cost efficient levels. So once again, don't confuse best with cheapest. Do you really believe that to be the case..... how controllable would that be in the hands of armed forces, how adaptable and durable, and dependable would those be over a conventional rifle. We'll never know for two reasons... 1: A man portable FFAR pod doesn't actually exist. 2: If it did, it wouldn't be the most cost effective infantry armament. I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.

Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 454	Posted - 2014.03.16 02:37:00 - [31] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logically speaking if one kind of main combat rifle, which also logically would be designed to be durable, adaptable, and modifiable, is not prevalent in a nations armed forces another equally appropriate rifle will find its way into circulation. I can't in good conscience argue against the modern assault rifle being the prevalent weapon because it simply is the best option and if there wasn't one in my army.....I would push for one. Here you're confusing best with cheapest. Assault/combat rifles are prevalent in the world's armed forces because they are the cheapest mass produced weapon with the necessary performance. If small man portable FFAR rocket pods were cheapest to effectively field en mass, they'd most likely be the main weapon carried by troops instead. So when it comes to equipping military forces, it's always at the lowest most cost efficient levels. So once again, don't confuse best with cheapest. Respectfully - you are quite incorrect. The modern battle rifles (and military systems period) that populate most of the higher technology enabled militaries use the "Best Value" model. Basically, it prevents the lowest bidder from securing the contract and delivering bare bones capability at the cost of effectiveness and sustainment of the equipment. The Best Value system essentially means you litterally are willng to pay more for more preformance and you have certain minimum preformance thresholds that all offered weapons MUST adhere to. The value add part comes in when the weapons exceed the minimum thresholds or provide options and capabilities beyond the basic requirements. For example, with the current HK416 that we use or the M4 series the base rifle doesn't cost as much as the attachements and equipment that come with your kit. The rifle itself is a quality platform but the modularity and breadth of configuring options is what makes it a valued tool. Also, the big difference in the comparision to New Eden and todays weapons is the simple fact that there are no technologically viable alternatives for rifle sized weapon systems other than the standared enclosed cartridge gunpowder propelled projectile. The point of racial tech trees is that the four major races had divergent and distinct tech innovations that govern everything from ship design and function all the way down to individual Soldier level technology (suits, modules, weapons) and ground tactics built arournd or at least enabled by their proprietary tech. The best value is the lowest bidder delivering the simplest lowest cost to make equipment that fulfills the required specifications and no more. It's that way for all military gear. But it's still the cheapest and most easy to mass produce product that is supplied. As far as New Eden goes, it had nothing to do with my comment. I'm very familiar with the concepts behind the various races. Now I'm going to get into my Revelation and be about my business. o7 I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1970	Posted - 2014.03.16 02:43:00 - [32] - Quote Atiim wrote: 8213 wrote: Look at this Atiim guy. Always gathering information and having discussions. That's what we have CPMs for.... WAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT A MINNNNUUUUUUTTEE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Atiim for Atiim. Fck Atiim being CPM, because CPM is kool-aid dishing chuckle-heads that can't cut in a game so they try to seize power other ways. Really? The CPMs having been working very hard trying to push our ideas and concerns out to the ever-so stubborn CCP. I understand that CCP may not always make the right decisions, but that is no reason to say that the CPM is not doing their jobs. Keep in mind, they are only representatives, and CCP has the final say in everything. Furthermore, in DUST 514's current state it is literally impossible to gain significant power simply because that "power" has no effect on the game for the majority of players. ISK Payout from Instant Battles remain the same Item Stock from the Marketplace is infinite No Player to Player market; meaning no economic power due to the lack of an actual economy And as I said before, the CPM has no power over anything. They are only representatives who can relay our ideas, problems, and concerns to CCP, which once again has the final say in everything.* Need some recent examples of how the CPM is helpful? If it weren't for the CPM, there would be no respec at all. CCP would have released all of the remaining dropsuits, and linked their ever so classic video to the playerbase when they asked why. If it weren't for IWS, Scouts & Light Frames would have their sidearms taken away, which would effectively kill the Nova Knife Scout users. If you'd like to discuss things with the CPM and have your information gathered, then by all means feel free to visit The Council's Chamber. If you aren't willing to do so (which you have not before, as not a single one of your posts are in that section of the forums), please stop spewing your uneducated opinion about how the CPM is useless -HAND Thanks, I was resisting going into the same diatribe until I got to the end of the thread. Also, 99.9% of my posts are in general but that doesn't mean I don't read other channels. I just don't respond often to them because I don't feel like my personal skill is good enough for game changing ideas or suggestions. I am not saying he is correct, I just want to defend not having posts in other channels. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Dagger-Two Tharumec Villore Accords 257	Posted - 2014.03.16 06:48:00 - [33] - Quote Conventional, bullet-firing weapons are still manufactured and used en-masse within New Eden by the armies of the empires. High-tech materials used in their components, from the weapon itself to the slugs it fires to the propellant, make them deadly weapons with a place in combat, even 21,000 years in the future. Playing since 1st batch of closed beta keys.
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1753	Posted - 2014.03.16 06:55:00 - [34] - Quote Besides the laser, all the weapons in this game are no different than any other FPS. I like the lasers because God and the Empress chose them, but also because it's not the same ole typical type of gun. You can charge a SCR. The LR is pretty unique to. The rest just fire bullets, you can call them plasma, rail, or projectile rounds, but they're just invisible bullets like any other shooter. I wish DUST had more guns that were futuristic and unique. Not the same old' point, and fire a wall of bullets at the enemy. I ain't got time for dat sht!*


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